FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  The Master Class....but why?

The Master Class....but why?

Started by Mozart13 REPLIES449 VIEWS· 08 Oct 2016, 19:54
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Oct 2016, 19:54
#1
08 Oct 2016, 19:54#1
Brilliant stuff from the ABs.....there was always a man to take the pass and seemingly a production line of players cutting onto the ball at pace. 
The commentators said the Boks defended well, but really only in the goal line stands. For the rest we allowed the ABs to make huge metres with passive defence.....hanging back vs going forward into contact. The push defence of Jake's era has been replaced with a h overing defence. Point 1. 
 Secondly we were weaker in the tight and the tightloose. Our forwards were not able to produce an edge at the breakdown, in the lineout or the scrum. And when you have a ponderous fellow like Kitshoff in the team, he simply has to be able to dominate at scrum time. He didn't, Redlinghuis didn't. And Whiteley/Kriel are simply tossed aside....as is Stephanie much of the time. If we can't get an edge at forward the big NZ backs will gobble us up. 

 Thirdly, until Willie came on we had no player who had line breaking capability. Habana and de Jongh had opportunities to pin their ears back with open field in front of them, and kicked ahead. We seriously lack pace in the whole backline which means we can't even exploit turnover ball. It's a total mess. 

We are trying to play 2009 rugby with a team that doesn't have the ability to play that rugby. We have a team with 10 changes from our WC semi team. A revolution but with no guiding strategy and tactics and woefully poor coaching, particularly defensively. 

 And sadly apart from Rohan and possibly Senatla I can think of no players outside the squad who can contribute to the solution. Bok rugby is seriously challenged.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
09 Oct 2016, 09:42
#2
09 Oct 2016, 09:42#2
 As I said ... get rid of the coach and bring in an Eddie Jones type. Weren't you listening? 
You usual list of fault findings lie at the feet of your coach. By getting rid of this idiot we'll find ourselves on the right path to recovery. 
I thought we were in trouble when the useless Meyer and his team of old men were running the show. I never thought it possible that we could get any worse than that. Hammered by Japan, Argentina and Wales and losing every single match in last years RC. 
Coetzee is at the forefront of it all. We have gone backwards rapidly ... all due to him hanging on to the tired and the useless ... poor selections across the board ... the inability to coach properly ... no leadership ... a rudderless ship ... a bench to hide his additional unmerited quotas. 
I can't remember a coach getting so much wrong so often.
Bringing in useless hasbeens like Morne, Alberts and Louw ... selecting guys out of position ... a 6/2 split ... it just doesn't end
EVERYTHING comes back to our quota coach. 
When are they going to fire this clown???




HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
09 Oct 2016, 10:45
#3
09 Oct 2016, 10:45#3
 Why CC? Because he is black?
QU
quacky96Club Pro196 posts
09 Oct 2016, 11:30
#4
09 Oct 2016, 11:30#4
 Shut up with that black talk PLEASE! it's really annoying.

Of course it's not because he's black; Meyer was white and was sh* it too!
Bring on Ackermann.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2016, 11:55
#5
09 Oct 2016, 11:55#5
 WE have Mozart's assessment of the game and he is not representing at all what happened.   There was no word about the under-performers and his normal twaddle about better - performing players.   The let-downs were the same as in the Irish tests.
 So lets look at who should NOT be in the team?   Definitely not the following:-
*   Morne Steyn, *   De Jongh,*   Alberts*   Habana*   Hou gaard (on the wing)
The bad news lot this year includes both Strauss and Louw - who both had one good test and 8 bad ones.    Kriel made 18 tackles - missing 2 - Louw before injury made 3 missing 1.   That is the difference.
  
QU
quacky96Club Pro196 posts
09 Oct 2016, 12:11
#6
09 Oct 2016, 12:11#6
Your list is absolutely spot on...

-Hougaard should go to the bench, he's super dynamic, very fast for a scrumhalf and can replace Klerk when he needs to;

-Hougaard's place on the wing is gonna be filled again by Combrinck (but I don't know when he's going to return, so);

-Hopefully Morne's days are almost over, with Pollard returning the future of the number 10 jersey is secured;

-Alberts is a tough case, in the midst of all that chaos he wasn't exactly the worst backrower, but South Africa really need to search for options;

-Habana is getting old, and should retire in style while he still can...either Rhaymond Rhule or Ulengo for that place (quotas are harsh), but in my opinion Rhule is highly superior, his skill set is simply amazing. There's nothing he can't do!

-Rohan Van Rensburg for De Jongh, absolutely no-brainer here.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
09 Oct 2016, 13:21
#7
09 Oct 2016, 13:21#7
 Vorster is injured. He too is a class act ... in the same mould as Janse van Rensburg.
Physically intimidating. Powerful on his feet. Legs the size of tree trunks. Solid defender. Crosses the gain line at will. 
Koch Marx is the same. A powerful wing with pace to burn.  
We must move away from the weedy little men like HouGat and De Jongh. Guys like Jantjies and Morne do not intimidate the opposition. Ask Wasaike Naholo what he things of HouGat. You may have to wait for him to still his laughter before responding. 
The old and the tired are also a hindrance to our progress. We all saw how poor Habana, Louw, Alberts, Morne and Strauss were yesterday. 
They're our supposed "experienced" foundation. The youngsters are looking to these losers for leadership. 
None is coming. A rudderless ship drifting aimlessly on open waters.  
Guys like Dylan Smith, Malcolm Marx, Marutlulle, Venter, Ulenga, Gelant, Willemse and Marais need to be brought closer. We need to start up front. Put a solid front row together and turn our bench into a weapon. Stop using it as a place to hide our baggage. 
My side would be 
1. Dylan Smith
2. Malcolm Marx
3. Julian Redelinghuys 
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Paul Willemse
6. Jaco Kriel
7. Pieter Steff Du Toit
8. Duane Vermeulen  
  9. Faff De Klerk 
10. Pat Lambie 
11. Jamba Ulenga
12. Rohan Janse van Rensburg
13. Harold Vorster
14. Ruan Combrinck
15. Warrick Gelant  
16. Edgar Marutlulle
17. Steven Kitshoff
18. Vincent Koch
19. RG Snyman or Franco Mostert
20. Warren Whiteley
21. Rudi Paige
22. Handre Pollard
23. Lionel Mapoe or Koch Marx
Yes I know it's an inexperienced side, thanks to Meyer, and yes I know we'll lose at first but with a coach in the calibre of an Eddie Jones we'd be competitive by years end.
We have talent coming out of our ears. We need to expose them to test match rugby and if we do that we're looking at a young side each with 40 plus caps come the WC in 2019 ... and a little depth in guys like Venter, Koch Marx, Notshe, Swanepoel, Kirsten and many others awesome prospects.
We need to start right away. We cannot afford to wait for Coetzee to grow a brain. It's not going to happen ... EVER.
Can you imagine if Coetzee had to suddenly become the All Blacks coach? They'd go into a downward spiral and I doubt they'd ever recover. M ass suicide would be the order of the day. 




XA
XaviPro1,924 posts
09 Oct 2016, 14:36
#8
09 Oct 2016, 14:36#8

Yes I know it's an inexperienced side, thanks to Meyer, and yes I know we'll lose at first but with a coach in the calibre of an Eddie Jones we'd be competitive by years end

That right there is in my opinion the biggest problem we face, trying to build a new team while still winning.
If that team, not a bad one I might add, played tomorrow and lost, the public would crucify them.
How do you start from scratch with the fans support?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2016, 14:46
#9
09 Oct 2016, 14:46#9
I would look at combinations and mine are as follows:-
Outside Backs 
I would go with Le Roux, Gelant and Kriel at full back.   Combrinck is a natural - but the other positions on the wing needs to be considered.   From what I have seen in Super Rugby I think there are basically three players who needs to be considered - naeely Rhule, Ulengo and Marx.     I do not like microlights such as  Senatla on the wing or in fact anywhere on the wing.
Centers
I favoured Vorster early on and still think he is a much when he comes back to play next year.    I also like Van Rensburg and would not dispense of De Allende.   That makes a choice between the three.    No microlights here either,
Half Backs
I would say that we can field three good flyhalfs in Pollard, Lambie and Goosen - we definitely do not need Morne Steyn.   I am a bit disappointed with De Klerk latest two performances, But he is good enough and I would also consider Reinach as scrummie. 
Loosies
Our loosies are way to slow in pace to compete adequately - both in defense and attack and I would say that we need too look afresh at the loosie situation.   Vermeulen was mostly injured over the last 18 months - but when he did play he was NOT the Vermeulen we used to know.   However, despite his pace deficiency he would remain  my first choice number 8.  
I would say that Kriel is the one loosie and I think that the others should be from Tecklenberg and Labuschagne.   I do not like to use the one loosie position as a space for an extra lock.    Some suggestion has been made to move Du Toit from lock to loosie - but that could negatively determine his career as a player.
Locks   
I would say we have five locks to be considered - namely Etzebeth, Du Toit, De Jager, Willemse and Du Plessis.   No problem there.
Front row
Marx is a must and I would say Malherbe,Redelinghuys and Kitshoff are also strong contenders.  We can easily get four props so that is not a huge problem either,     

 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Oct 2016, 16:51
#10
09 Oct 2016, 16:51#10
We defended well missing 40 tackles wow - our commentators are as stupid as our coach.....compare that to the 3 missed by NZ
QU
quacky96Club Pro196 posts
09 Oct 2016, 17:18
#11
09 Oct 2016, 17:18#11
 Cleancut and Clevermike...your teams would struggle early, but with time would become a GREAT south african team!

It's a shame that racism and politics will never let that happen.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Oct 2016, 18:01
#12
09 Oct 2016, 18:01#12
I'd look at these players:
15. Willie/ Gelant / Coetzee
14. Combrink / Ismiel / Ulengo / v/Wyk / Sithole
13. Jessie Kriel / Janse v/Rensburg / Vorster / Esterhuizen / Am / Swanepoel
12. de Allende / Serfontein / Frans Venter / Odendaal
11. Senatla / Sergel Petersen / Kolbe / Skosan / Rhule / Jordaan
10. Pollard / Jantjies / Lambie / Goosen
9. Faf / Hougaard / Reinach / Groom / v/Zyl
1. Kitshoff / Nyakane / du Toit / Pierre Schoeman / Kebble
2. Bismark / Strauss / Marx / Akkers /Scara
3. Malherbe / Marcel v/d Merwe / Koch / Wilco Louw / v/Dyk / Coenie
4. Etzebeth / Willemse / Jenkins / Kleyn
5. Lood / PSDT / RG Snyman / Lewies / Ruan Botha /Schickerling
6. Jaco Kriel / Kolisi / Carr / Kwagga /Labs
7. Jacques du Plessis / du Preez / du Preez / Kirsten / Mostert / Elstadt / Ackerman / Brink
8. Marcel Coetzee / Arno Botha / Notshe / Liebenberg / Mtembu /v/d Walt
Injuries aside my 23 today would be:
15. Willie 14. Combrink 13. Jessie Kriel 12. de Allende 11. Senatla 10. Pollard 9. Hougaard 1. Kitshoff 2. Bismark 3. Malherbe 4. Etzebeth 5. Lood 6. Kriel 7. Jacques du Plessis 8. Marcel Coetzee
16. Marx 17. Nyakane 18. Marcel v/d Merwe 19. PSDT 20. Notshe 21. Faf 22. Jantjies 23. Janse v/Rensburg
My A side would be:
15. Gelant 14. Ulengo 13. Vorster 12. Serfontein 11. Ismiel 10. Lambie 9. Reinach 1. du Toit 2. Strauss 3. Koch 4. Willemse 5. RG Snyman 6. Kolisi 7. du Preez 8. Arno Botha 
16. Akkers 17. Pierre Schoeman 18. Wilco Louw 19. Jenkins 20. Carr 21. Groom 22. Goosen 23. Frans Venter
Politically incorrect but fuck that


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Oct 2016, 18:21
#13
09 Oct 2016, 18:21#13
The Lambie myth just won't die even when he was one of the poorest players on the park yesterday....and was the flyhalf against Japan
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Oct 2016, 19:14
#14
09 Oct 2016, 19:14#14
Lambie is a quality player, playing him so soon after injury at the highest level out of position at 15 is pathetic player management but then again we are talking Coetzee here
— END OF THREAD —

More from Rugby

More news