The Meyer Quandary

I know that there are a lot of mix feelings about Meyer as the national coach and nobody on here sits on the fence. You are either for or against Meyer.

Now that he has two championship tournaments under his belt, I thought that it would be worth to reflect on whether he is taken us in the right direction or if we will always remain in the top 3 but never number 1.

My biggest pain points are

Coaching Staff – They are not the best in the country. The boks are not conditioned well enough and showed this at Ellis Park. Defence, how many tries have been leaked these passed seasons. Backline skills, not up to standard. Scrum struggle last year but the new laws are hiding the boks in efficiency. We’ve been really poor in the lineout. Nienabaar, Proudfoot and Cheetahs backline coach will have to become part of the coaching structure.

Selection Policy, don’t pick players out of form, pick form players, create competition, don’t use the test to get players back into form. No room for passengers.

Game Management and tactics, pre-meditated subs don’t work. Don’t sub your front row when you are about 5m from your own or opponent’s line.  Big heavy packs with channel 1 ball don’t always work. Stop expecting players to play in a certain way. Use what you have and plan your tactics around them. Hougaard is not Du Preez, allow him to attack from the base. Lambie likes to play with the ball, he has never been a kicking flyhalf.

Good Points,

Brought back consistency, improvement from last year and a few years before. Piet Helium and John smit destroyed the national squad by selecting the wrong players and not bringing enough talent through. Got rid of competition in the team to save their own arses.

What I struggle with is that I would have like for Meyer to make a gamble and not be so conservative. Pick the best available youngsters and use the early years to allow them to gain mental strength. Previous coaches have done this successfully, no point keeping dead wood around just to plug a hole. 

The main Meyer quanda ry is to keep the fans happy while he figures out a way to beat the All Blacks. Not an easy task, but the average fan will never accept that if we lose to the ABs, we may still be on the best available track. This in spite of the fact that we do no better at age group level or in the S15.

Being Bok coach is a tough job.

Kingcorn

In most ways you are correct in your assessment - though Mozart and Beeno will have a fit about some of the issues raised by you.

I do agree that Meyer this year showed another inclination as to the style of play he expected.   He clearly put an emphasis on improved attacking play by the backline and by his emphasis of breakdown balls recovery - but in doing that he got into a situation where he selected players with a clear incapacity and limitations  insofar as those two functions are concerned.   He selected -

*   Morne at flyhalf and Morne never was an attacking flyhalf pivot and that is a fact of life; and

*   he selected a loosie combination - where due to lack of mobility and reading of games - only Louw had a limited capacity in recovery of balls under such conditions - the other loosies contribute nothing to that facet of play.

Insofar as attacking play is concerned none of our players are really good ball carriers in open play - even though Vermeulen and Louw played a role in the two Habana tries - for the rest their efforts in that regard is confined to a limited number of attacks in traffic - nendng up in maul situations 

Insofar as defence is concerned - we are also in a situation where our loosies are largely at fault.   They are relatively good in defence in the channel - although the missed tackle on Read indicates that even in those cases are inadequate.   Outside of the channel they are no factor at all.   That puts an extra load on our backline defence.   If you look again at the Ellis Park test - you would find that the AB loosies are defending all over the field - our loosies only if the opposition players are in the immediate vicinity of the tight phases of the game.

Insofar as deficient line out play is concerned there are limitations as to what can be achieved through coaching.   We played a seriously deficient line out lock to partner Etzebeth and no reliable loosies to share the load.   The result is we ended up with essentially only one line out option and that resulted in the AB's to concentrate all their efforts in defence on Etzebeth and not bother about any other option.   That also was the reason why our mauls have been ineffective this year.   In other words we need another effective lock and a loosie that can produce the goods in future - and I am afraid Kruger and Flippie is not the answer.

The other issue about defence is a problem - I think that there are problems in technique of some backline players insofar as tackling is concerned - and in the present set -up all of Morne (he was very poor at Ellis Park), Engelbrecht and Le Roux could benefit from expert advice and making sure they implement the advice.   No amount of coaching will help in the case of Kirchner - he will never benefit from any amount of coaching.

I think Meyer showed major improvement this year compared to last year - but there are certain areas where -

*   selection on merit with due regard to present performance and capacity for further development should be the key; and

*   there are specific components of the game - where expert coaches should be brought in to iron out deficiencies.

The deadwood like Kirchner, Alberts and Kruger should be eliminated asap.  The rest after studying player progress in Super  15 next year.   

In essence the Springboks needs  

Hawka, winning ratios are not always best for the team. I think that the boks have been exposed by the All Blacks this year. As you mentioned, none of the other teams were real threats. Australia has a new coach and quite a few brats in their team that only likes to attack and not defend.

The end of year tour might be a tougher test for them. Wales are looking really strong and probably the northern hemisphere team at the moment.

I believe if the boks were on the right track that they could have come close to beating the all blacks or even beaten them at ellis park.

What it showed was that the players were unfit, defence patterns were completely wrong, some players made to many basic errors and the lack of protecting the ball, especially when you attack from your 22.

Australia are losing badly now but their last game against argetina proved that they are a team on the up. They may suffer this year but next year they will be really difficult to beat. I think that they will surprise both the all blacks and boks next year.

 Mozart

What are you talking about?   We had last year 3 of the 6 top teams in Super 15 and this year had 4 of the 8 top teams in the competition.  Last year New Zealand had two teams in the top 6 and this year 2 in the top 8.

We won the JWC in 2012 and beat New Zealand comprehensively in the JWC this year.  

So how can you make a statement  "This in spite of the fact that we do no better at age group level or in the S15".    The Chiefs was beaten by the Stormers and the Crusaders by the Sharks - those being the top 2 New Zealand teams in Super 15.  

Can you explain your statement as quoted above in more detail please.  

Ceradyne

So we have no defence problems because of a kind of mathematical valuation made. That is rubbish at best.   Last year we were notoriously poor insofar as scoring of tries is concerned and the fact that we did better this year - does not mean we should leak more tries than we did last year.

There has been serious defence deficiencies in some games in Super 15 - like the Argentinians in Mendoza scoring two tries against one by the Springboks - but more especially in the Ellis Park test.  Failure to recognise that deficiency with a stupid percentage calculation you come up with - is an exercise in futility.   The AB's scored 5 tries against us - three because of serious defence de ficiencies and by stupidity of players like Morne - that is the crux of the matter.

Just for your info - if you score more tries is not an entitlement to give away more tries.  

OOM here you go...we have won 3 Super Championships.....but we have won 3 TN/RCs. No better. And in fact if you dig into second best performance, you find we placed 3rd, 7th and 10th in the championship.....worst of the three nations.

The irony is some of those Bools championships were acheived by Meyer and Morne....the very people you say stand in the way of the Boks.

Game, set and match.

 Ceradyne

Hell - but you beat the idiots in stupidity by a mile. Which tries were given away as a result of attacking rugby by the Springboks - ie of defects in attacking by the backline? Probably one - and that resulted from the rank stupidity of Morne  not kicking the ball out when the siren was on the point of calling the end of play in the first half. The leaked tries came from a disgracefully poor attempt of a tackle by Alberts on Read - no excuse, The falling over his own feet and no attempt in recovery of the ball from the tackled Aaron Smith (again Alberts) and Morne's non-tackle on Read resulting in the fifth try. The Barrett try came after botched defence attempts by Jean, Morne and JJ. No wonder you are Stupidity Supreme on this site. .

Mozart

Let me quote you again:- 

"This in spite of the fact that we do no better at age group level or in the S15."

You did not explain that statement at all.   You ducked and dived and came up with stats of up to ten years ago.   Nothing about the age group story -  nothing about recent Super 15 performances - implied by the use of the word "do".   History won't help - we are not talking about players who retired years ago - or should have been shown the door because of incompetence already - the matter relates to the present scenario - as is clear in your queried statement.  

What is pertinent is that you made a wild statement - really in line with your normal skyscrapers - and when queried tried to duck the response.   Should have expected as much - standard practice in your case.   

cwvdmerwe

Welcome to the site.   Sasue has his own way of looking at issues and although he is a  Kiwi living in Melbourne - he is quite aware of our Springbok performances and normally credit them for what they achieve.

Morne is not an attacking flyhalf - in that respect he is more than a liability rather than an asset.  Sasue is right about that one. 

Careful he understands the word "kak" very well - being a member of this site for a while now. 

OOm you want Junior results and more recent results? Careful what you ask for. Here are our results for the Junior RWC. We have played 6, won once.....but at home. In the senior RWC we have played 5, won twice, at home and away. 

My statement that we are not better at junior level was wrong....because it implied we are equivalent at junior level. In fact we are worse. Why we would want to populate the Boks with a bunch of kids who just lost to the junior version of our opponents beats me.

I trust the penny has finally dropped.

Mozart

I was looking at the last two years - not ancient history.  Your word "do"  implies the present situation.   That is where I differ from you.  You always try to find fault with younger players coming through - and you are not giving credit to anybody - bar the great match losers whom we sit with in the present Springbok team.

Morne did a wonderful match-losing job in the Bulls - Brumbies semi-final this year and he made a major contribution to the loss at Ellis Park - Alberts tried a sitting duck tackle on Read and fell flat on his face in the process - and then fell over his feet - clumsy as hell - when he was nearest to play and should at  least made an effort to  recover the ball after the Aaron Smith tackle.  Morne missed enough tackles that that led to tries and fouled up when he did not know when to kick the ball and when to pass - result 4 tries.  He also missed two kicks at goal - minus 4 points.   The three tackles he missed - were on Ben Smith (first try), Barrett (4th try) and Reid (5th try),

You are stuck in the not-so-glorious past and that is where the main problem lies.   Your favourite players - Steyn, Alberts and  Kruger (all players you praised to high heaven on this site) have all been the core of losing teams - which you fail to realise at all.

You above schedules are meaningless - even the headings are wrong in the latest one and that says it all.  

So lets make it really modern history....this year. The Boks have beaten every team they played except the ABs and are ranked second in the world. The Junior Boks came third. Once again not as good as the senior team. Game, set and match.

Mozart

Not game set and match at all - I am afraid.   The topic here deals with Meyer and what he has to do - I believe - to improve the situation.   To aim at number 2 - is just not good enough.   We were number 3 last year - and in my original comments I credited Meyer with an improvement from last year - but I am concerned about what can be done to improve the team and beat the All Blacks - not to linger on as the number 2 team in the world.

We could have won the game at Ellis Park and came within an inch of beating the All Blacks - but for poor plays by three or four players - who proved to be match losers rather than match winners (Kirchner, Morne, Alberts and Kruger).   What is wrong in advocating their replacement by players who has proven better performance records on lower levels?

I also do not like components of the game of Engelbrecht (I think he Is one-dimensional and only relies on speed - while he has defence problems as well) - but would like to see what Super 15 next year produces insofar as the flyhalf and 13 positions are concerned.   I think that should be the key - because to keep on with the players mentioned is really looking for a no-hope WC in 2015.   The problem remains that all of Kirchner, Morne and Alberts will be 30 next year and they will not change their performances and style of play at that age - even if they were physically able to do so.  which is really doubtful.