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FORUM / RUGBY /  The most inconsistently called rugby infraction?

The most inconsistently called rugby infraction?

Started by Mozart7 REPLIES282 VIEWS· 03 Apr 2013, 21:04
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Apr 2013, 21:04
#1
03 Apr 2013, 21:04#1

There are lots of candidates....the ruck, the maul, the hit at scrum time, lifting in the tackle etc. My candidate would be the forward pass. There were some Aussie commentators last weekend, again bemoaning the fact that a Brumbie pass called forward, went backward out of the hand. Funny I never heard those comments when Jean passed backward out of the hand to Lambie at the RWC.

 

Best I can judge,   it is still a formal requirement that the ball cannot travel forward relative to a line across the field. If this is true, given  drift, every lateral pass is forward. That doesn't seem to be the intent, but the intent is not clearly defined.

 

And if you allow drift, how do you judge it? One way would be to compare the receiving player relative to the passing player....before the pass. If he is behind the player and the pass is backward out the hands any move forward could be ascribed to drift. So forward passes, are to players ahead of the passer at the time of passing.....provided there is a legitimate pass made. Kinda like the kicking rule.

 

Not perfect, but at least a specific data point. Nobody reffing today can judge drift. And certainly better than having one formal rule and a practice of ignoring it.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
03 Apr 2013, 23:00
#2
03 Apr 2013, 23:00#2

 How about  the direction out of the hands - seems the easiest to me.

Lots of foward passes are got away with unless you are a saffer of course.

Watch the pass to the flyhalf or first receiver blatantly forward very often.

However the worst these days is the crooked throw  into the scrum because it happens all the time and its easy to blow but isnt. 

OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
03 Apr 2013, 23:02
#3
03 Apr 2013, 23:02#3

I see what you're saying, and it makes sense on a pass that is delivered flat. There would have to be some wording to prevent a lobbed forward pass to a player who starts behind the passer - like the alley-oop.

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Apr 2013, 00:50
#4
04 Apr 2013, 00:50#4

Exactly oimatey. Not saying this is the answer....but having a rule and not applying it is no answer either. Hasbeen your rule seems to  be what refs are doing today. But the application is very varied....take a look at this pass from Fury to Habana in the RWC match against Oz at minute 4.50.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9DzAf6Agow

 

As Habana is receiving the ball, Fury the passer, is still ahead of the ball....if Fury's speed measures instantaneous drift....a forward pass over such a short distance, should be ahead of him....not behind him. Clearly the drift rule was not applied....nor was it applied in Lambie's non try. But I believe in both cases the ball left the player's hand laterally....and in both cases the passer would have been ahead of the ball when caught. In Habana's case that's proven....it wasn't in Jean's case because he was stopped in the tackle.

 

So either allow the player receiving the ball behind the passer to be ok.....or insist on the pass travelling flat or backwards as viewed from the field itself. But the refs don't insist on this. For example RWC final ref Craig Joubert allowed the pass for the Todd try for the Crusaders last Saturday,  which to me looks exactly like the pass from Fury to Habana.

RE
redsmanPro1,710 posts
04 Apr 2013, 05:56
#5
04 Apr 2013, 05:56#5

forward pass is a forward pass... Its interpretation by on-field ref... seen plenty called against Aussies by cheating Kaplan and Bryce so think it goes beyond just poor old saffas... who wre likely screwed by the 'faceless' manipulators of 2011 rigged RWC...

I liked Kaf's (aussie commentators) call on the weekend - shouldnt be able to kick for goal off scrum infringement penalty (could take it further and include other subtle infringements) - kick for touch but not at goal. This would be an excellent step to speed up the game make it more entertaining... mind you Saffas score most your points from kicks dont you.......

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Apr 2013, 06:19
#6
04 Apr 2013, 06:19#6

No conspiracy, just some very poor calls, look at the whole video......it was mega incompetence. And the point of the string is not to affirm how forward passes are called, but to suggest one possible test to make the calls more consistent..

 

I heard the same comment about scrum infringements and agree penalties should be reserved for  deliberate acts, not incompetent ones.

RE
redsmanPro1,710 posts
04 Apr 2013, 07:20
#7
04 Apr 2013, 07:20#7

re conspiracy - Im not convinced and think I never will be - it wasnt just Aust v SA - what about the game Bryce officiated with Aus v Ire... To put Aus on that side of the draw in the first place. Additionally Bryce also officiated ANOTHER game that Aust was in. Making it 3x in the RWC Aust copped this cheating kiwi ref. Anyway I will sleep well with the FACT kiwis cant win a RWC outside of their own cheating homeland...

re Forward pass - I cant see how 'lines on field' interpretation can apply -it has to be ruled from the direction the ball leaves the hands - its basic physics that the ball is going to carry forward momentum when passed by a player running fwd at speed. The longer distance of the pass, the more forward momentum ball will carry. In my books ref has to call it as he sees it (even TMO) based on the direction of the hands of the player when ball passed... I think solution for less errors TMO and on-field ref communicate more than just try time... but seriously do we want to see a game slowed down more by set-piece for 50/50 calls...?

MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
04 Apr 2013, 12:06
#8
04 Apr 2013, 12:06#8

 Good to see you're over the World Cup win by the Mighty ABs! Word is Bryce was on the "grassy knoll".  

Can you confirm this also Sadsman?

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