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FORUM / RUGBY /  The mozcroscope looks at JJ Engelbrecht

The mozcroscope looks at JJ Engelbrecht

Started by Mozart21 REPLIES416 VIEWS· 10 Oct 2013, 16:50
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Oct 2013, 16:50
#1
10 Oct 2013, 16:50#1

So in the lauded tradition of the mozcroscope....here are all the facts, and only the facts.....everything JJ did in the test. You can check them for yourself by the match minute counter, which is provided.

 

00.08 The ABs kick off left towards JJ, he mistimes his leap and the ABs recover the ball and launch their opening attacks.

 

1.02  JJ "tackles" Conrad Smith who stands in the tackle and struggles forward. Alberts steams up and flattens both of them.

 

1.18 The Boks are under a lot of pressure, the ball is passed to JJ behind the line, who kicks and fails to find touch. The ABs surge up the right side with Read just failing to regather near the Bok line.

 

2.52 JJ gets the ball from a classy Willie pass, accelerates nicely up the touch line , but passes behind Jean's head, slowing his progress.

 

6.20 JJ commits two defenders as Savea naively moves to help the man inside, a nice pass by JJ puts Willie away.

 

11.30 JJ takes pass and is stopped after 2 metres

 

13.55 Attempts to beat the defence on the outside, doesn't, and is taken into touch. NZ ball.

 

34.40 Overruns Morne's pass 10 metres out on a set move, after the Boks had destroyed the AB scrum. Some claim the pass was behind him....it was on his hip. And it was absolutely flat. A simple case of getting ahead of the passer and dropping the ball. . The ABs quickly relieve a great try scoring chance.

 

40.00 Morne clears outstandingly from behind the Bok line, and Louw alertly snaps up the errant NZ throw. Morne passes at his 22 instead of kicking out at half time. JJ performs an old fashioned scissors with jean. The change of direction takes him past Cruden. Then faced with a tandem of Read and Nonu, he accelerates trying to take the non existent gap between them. Nonu takes him down and Read strips the ball on the ground, which JJ places rapidly. There is no attempt to protect the ballor stand in the tackle. Massive turnover NZ.

 

40.33 JJ has a chance to make amends with Nonu directly in front of him. Nonu steps him  with ease and is brought down by Serfontein. But  the NZ move has gained momentum. Seconds later they score a crucial try.

 

41.27 JJ tries to step MCaw and gets knocked back.

 

45.03 JJ gets ball on AB 22 in lots of space, with Serfontein outside him. He gets tackled and fails to offload.

 

49.00 JJ's best moment of the match as he dummies and then steps Savea and surges dangerously ahead passing well at full tilt to Willie who is just stopped. This shows his attacking potential in space. In fact he probably had as good a chance to run this in and the pass may not have been the best option.

 

53.30 Dagg bounces off the JJ tackle

 

56.40 JJ loses the ball up the left touchline

 

60.22 JJ missses Barrett woefully for an AB try and the Rugby Championship. Jean darts forward to attempt a tackle on Barrett behind the advantage line....Barrett steps him. Morne get's Barrett at the last moment and holds him up. Barrett crabs to the right, into JJ's arms .....and out of JJ's arms! He eludes the pathetic Wooly Boolie and scores a famous try.

 

62.20 JJ juggles a pass throwing off the timing and he passes forward.

 

68.40 JJ gets space up the left wing, but is easily stopped

 

76.35 Yet another JJ run where he dies with the ball

 

76.42 JJ misses JdV on the hard run with a pass delivered too late

 

That's all folks!

 

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Oct 2013, 17:45
#2
10 Oct 2013, 17:45#2

The tainted moroscope  as to be expected.   I will point out where he is making an interpretation which is ludicrous:-

 

*   Morne should have kicked the ball out - he passed to Jean who should also have kicked - but did not.   Engelbrecht tackled - what now.   He should stand up in the tackle - easy to say - or protect the ball from being taken by read.   No back up for Engelbrecht at all - he placed the ball for another player - anything else can be regarded as a professional foul and a card.   What can he do otherwise - the whole issue is completely garbled and sole blame laid at Engelbrecht's door.   The expectation of Mozart as to what he could do is totally unrealistic in any event. 

 

*  If the missed tackle of Dagg occurred as indicated - how does it come up with another miss on Barrett?   That would be 2 missed tackles by JJ - but ESPN Scrum said he missed 1 tackle only - so what is going on here.   Deception or a real mistake in the moroscope.

 

*  The Barrett try - who was at fault - only JJ?  Lie about Morne's effort or lack of it in evidence.   Bad reading of the situation.

 

A biased report - and only designed to discredit  Engelbrecht.  Without looking at the game again - I made the above observations based on what actually happened on the field of play - and other cases may also have been misinterpreted.

 

Engelbrecht made some mistakes on Saturday - and he did miss a crucial tackle - after an extremely poor effort by Morne Steyn - in respect of which  I have duly  criticized him.   However, it is wrong to write a garbled report in which an effort is obviously made to discredit the player every time he touched the ball and manufacture things what he should and should not have done in given circumstances.   

 

Mozart - you are sometimes seriously  prejudiced against players -  please remain realistic in assessments.         .    

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Oct 2013, 17:51
#3
10 Oct 2013, 17:51#3

Nope everything is precisely as reported....that's the beauty of the mozcroscope. Check the Dagg missed tackle....the NZ commentator actually comments verbally on Dagg getting rid of Engelbrecht. And if JJ beat Savea....Nonu beat JJ it's exactly the same thing. OOm if you had any statistical training, you would know raw data is not always reliable. JJ missed 3 tackles in that game.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Oct 2013, 18:34
#4
10 Oct 2013, 18:34#4

Mozart

 

Suddenly RAW DATA Is not reliable.   Is it only reliable when Mozart wishes it to be?

 

My problem is not the description of what actually happen - the problem is the biased what should and what he should not have done.   That is the key of most of the criticism I have on your deductions.   You even went to the extend to imply that he should have committed a professional foul in the 40:00 case.   That is not on at all.

 

If It was merely a description of what  happened every time he touched the ball - fine, but it is the additions and garbled interpretations and suggestions that is not ethical.      

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
10 Oct 2013, 19:04
#5
10 Oct 2013, 19:04#5
Ou Maaik, over the years I've come to realize that the "mozcroscope" is some kind of combination of rose tinted glasses and blinkers that blithering idiots put on for the purpose of sounding even more ignorant, biased and prejudiced than usual.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Oct 2013, 19:05
#6
10 Oct 2013, 19:05#6

Okay fine...ignore the implied prescriptions. I can find two...at minute 40 and at minute 49.00. By your own admission you agree with the rest....I can live with that.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Oct 2013, 19:07
#7
10 Oct 2013, 19:07#7
RIProoi this is the first time you have surfaced since you predicted the Boks were going to win the RC by crushing the ABs ....the deep dive?
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
10 Oct 2013, 19:19
#8
10 Oct 2013, 19:19#8
mozcroscope???

more like mozters sniper scope looking to take put any innocent jj bystanders,
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
10 Oct 2013, 19:23
#9
10 Oct 2013, 19:23#9
Are you quite certain it's the first time I've posted since the test match, moffie?

You sure you don't want to take the trouble to double check and make sure of your allegations before you get branded a liar again and you end up having yet another of your melodramatic and self-righteous tantrums?

Hmmm?
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
10 Oct 2013, 20:30
#10
10 Oct 2013, 20:30#10
Wow, that seemed to shut the conceited and pompous liar up in a hurry! Who's doing the deep dive now? Waaaaaaahahahaha!
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Oct 2013, 22:44
#11
10 Oct 2013, 22:44#11
On the contrary RIP I had other things to do. I wouldn't be so rude as to ignore you like that. But  please point me to your posts. It's not that I doubt your veracity in spite of you lying for months about your identity, I'm curious why it was so far below the radar. There you go an open invitation to showcase your contributions.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Oct 2013, 22:50
#12
10 Oct 2013, 22:50#12
 Glad you posted that Moz for I am going to counter every point with what reallly happened. We know JJ only missed one tackle for a start and you to love how brilliantly everyone else did, like a Morne kick, classy Willie pass and best of all is your take on JJ's best moment, its about JJ being good in space, well to create that space he had to beat Savea.........there was no space before he beat him........but I'll get back on each point, like Dagg bouncing JJ, yeah right!!
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Oct 2013, 23:09
#13
10 Oct 2013, 23:09#13
Not my words Dave...the NZ commentary team said that about Dagg . But this is fine with me.....let's look at all those JJ moments from your perspective. I'm always open to learn....haha.. 
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
10 Oct 2013, 23:13
#14
10 Oct 2013, 23:13#14
Well, I made 3 comments on this thread.

Then there was this . . .

. . . and here's another . . .

. . . and 2 more comments on this thread that were posted before your lie at 17h05.

So that's 7 appearances  prior to 17h05 today, so are we done yet . . . given that I only needed one to expose you as a liar again ? Yes? Well then be a sport and go wipe that egg of your fat, deceitful and conceited face. There's a good chap . . .
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Oct 2013, 00:11
#15
11 Oct 2013, 00:11#15
Well hardly seminal stuff was it RIP....the Boks lost the match because of tackling. Hahahaha no kidding Sherlock. But where did you address your prediction, I can't seem to find any reference to the Boks winning the RC.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Oct 2013, 05:36
#16
11 Oct 2013, 05:36#16

Mozart

 

I said clearly I am not happy with any of your deductions and comments on what the player should have done and should not have done and in general your prejudiced  comments on the plays.   I mentioned certain ones only and will wait for the rest.

 

I am unhappy with two specific occurrences - the knocking on of the ball at minute 34:50 and obviously his missed tackle on Barrett - even though the primary problem was not his - but that of Jean and Morne.   For the rest JJ had a good game - especially on attack.

 

By the way is the kick in receipt of balls - so eloquently credited to Kruger by you as the most important function - not a Kruger mistake and not one of JJ.   Matter of fact I think it was Kruger who mistimed his jump and missed the ball and not JJ.   Will have a look again at that one.      

 

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Oct 2013, 05:54
#17
11 Oct 2013, 05:54#17
Well that was a 14 point swing, it's unlikely that the rest of his game made that up. Especially given his reckless attempt to split Read and Nonu, leading to the try at the half.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Oct 2013, 06:58
#18
11 Oct 2013, 06:58#18

Mozart

 

Why a 14% swing?  I can understand that Barret's try was represents a 7 point swing.   Where is the other 7 points coming from?

 

By the way are you still blaming JJ for the failure of Morne to licl that ball out that led to Messam's second try?   He was given a bad situation and the only option open to him wa to do what he did.

 

You still seem to think that only Engelbrechht is to be blamed for the Barrett try.   I thought that we agreed that he was not the only one to blame for those two instances - and that Morne and Jean were to share part of the blame in both cases.

 

Matter of fact I think the major source of the problem in the Messam's try case was the inability of Morne to distinguish when to pass the ball and when to make a relieving kick - he made a similar mistake on another occasion as well.  Must say on Boots & All Naas was livid about that try - he said it was unforgiveable - but he obviously did not name Morne as the source of the problem. 

 

If I have to rate the performance of the backline players on a negative scale starting with the worst performance - I would say it is as follows:-

 

1 Kirchner

2 Steyn

3 Engelbrecht

4 Du Preez

5 Le Roux

7 De Villiers

8 Habana

 

The negatives for the first 2 made their performance as a whole sub-par and I would give Kirchner a rating of 3/10 and Morne 4/10.   The rest could be rated from 6/10 (Engelbrecht and Du Preez), 7/10 Le Roux and the other two 8/10  

 

  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Oct 2013, 07:27
#19
11 Oct 2013, 07:27#19
Your ranking is probably about right. One could debate JJ vs Morne and Jean vs Habana....but the rest are pretty clear. Fourteen points come from one try scoring chance botched and another conceded. There were other actors in the Barrett try and the scoring chance when JJ knocked on, was just a chance....it's indicative, not a hard number.
On the halftime try a careful analysis shows JJ was initially committed to the run by circumstance. That worked out okay because Cruden overran the inside cut. But then there was the attempt to bust between Nonu and Read. That was a conscious decision, demonstrated by JJ accelerating hard into the gap. At that moment he had options....he took the highest risk/highest reward option. And even then if he had nailed Nonu seconds later the whole move could have been stopped
These microscopic views tend to be unflattering, but they provide insights. JJ had some good moments, a lot of mediocre moments with dead end running and a few match losing blunders. The truth is there for all to see.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Oct 2013, 12:01
#20
11 Oct 2013, 12:01#20

The truth according to Mozart's garbled interpretations.  Why don't you do a similar scope on Morne Steyn.   That would make for interesting reading - because I would be rose-tinted and give you the opportunity to paper over his tackle misses and kicking decisions.   Also two missed conversions of tries.   Should be nice reading that one.

 

Now come on - use this opportunity to correct the image that Morne did not mess up badly  during the game.   That would be the chance to correct your image of prejudice in favour of a player.

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
11 Oct 2013, 12:49
#21
11 Oct 2013, 12:49#21
No one claimed it was seminal stuff, you self-important and deceitful little toad, I'm just proving yet again what a disgusting liar you are after you claimed I hadn't "surfaced" after the game.

It's the same old sequence, over and over again . . .

1. Moffie tells a lie.

2. Rooinek exposes Moffie's lie and provides evidence.

3. Moffie ignores the evidence and changes the subject.

Spare me your further lies and your pathetically juvenile little yaps. I'll treat you like an adult the day you start behaving like one.
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
11 Oct 2013, 13:50
#22
11 Oct 2013, 13:50#22
 
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