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FORUM / RUGBY /  The poor Stormers - the coach has gone bananas

The poor Stormers - the coach has gone bananas

Started by clevermike10 REPLIES323 VIEWS· 20 Mar 2013, 15:46
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Mar 2013, 15:46
#1
20 Mar 2013, 15:46#1

The Stormers are f#cked badly by their coach - the greatest idiot in rugby.   Here is their team:-

15. Joe Pietersen,14. Gio Aplon,13. Juan de Jongh,12. Jean de Villiers (captain),11. Gerhard van den Heever,10. Elton Jantjies,9. Dewaldt Duvenage,8. Duane Vermeulen (vice-captain),7. Rynhardt Elstadt,6. Siya Kolisi,5. Andries Bekker,4. De Kock Steenkamp,3. Frans Malherbe,2. Tiaan Liebenberg,1. Steven Kitshoff,

Replacements :16. Deon Fourie,17. Pat Cilliers,18. Don Armand,19. Nizaam Carr,20. Nic Groom,21. Damian de Allende,22. Jaco Taute

It contains only a set of five midget rugby players in their backline and they are indeed going to be pushed over by the Brumbies.  

Let me be quite frank about my reasoning:-

Pietersen

A good goalkicker - who had to be in the team because Jantjies is likely to fail in that Department when under pressure.

De Jongh

Was a complete and absolute failure in Super 15 last year.   He is a reasonable defender - that is useless in attack and a liability insofar as ball handling (knock ons), losing the ball in tackle situations and giving away penalties are concerned.   In fact the poorest 12 in all  franchises in SA.

Jantjies

Looked better in the last game against the Chiefs - but a serious liability in defence.  He gets run over in the channel easily and in the Chiefs game De Allende covered for that one by strong tackles slowing down the balls.   I doubt very much if De Villiers will be able to cover for Jantjies in the same way as De Allende did.

The forwards look OK - but I have my doubts about Steenkamp and Kolisi - I think that Fourie would have been  better at 6 than Kolisi and I would have suggested Elstadt at lock and Armand at 7.

 Bearing in mind the rubbish backline - a loss by 12+ points is inevitable

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Mar 2013, 17:54
#2
20 Mar 2013, 17:54#2

So Mike if the Stormers win.....will you be willing to admit the coach knows a lot more about the game than you?

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Mar 2013, 17:56
#3
20 Mar 2013, 17:56#3

Mozart

Sure - I will admit it - but I have a better chance of winning the Lotto  than the Stormers winning on Saturday.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Mar 2013, 18:08
#4
20 Mar 2013, 18:08#4

Noted.

OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
20 Mar 2013, 18:17
#5
20 Mar 2013, 18:17#5

 Coetzee deserves some credit for last week's victory - his loyalty to his players paid off where I thought he was making a mistake sticking with them (particularly Jantjies). I think that is what he is doing here in honoring JDJ place in the team. This team has a seasoned, scrappy look to it in the backline and while it lacks size at 13, 14 and 15 all those players have a good amount of mongrel in them.

 

Duvenhage brings a better kicking game at scrumhalf and deserves some playing time as well - that may be what Coetzee is after.

 

Wouldn't be surprised at an upset Stormers victory but if they do lose it will be closer than the Sharks game.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 Mar 2013, 18:56
#6
20 Mar 2013, 18:56#6

Grant must have been injured and hence Jantjes and Pietersen. But for the rest you are spot on Mike re your selections.

 Why Nizaam Carr is selected in the match 22 is a real question. Like your pack Mike. Backs are very lightweight - can they hold. Not my choices for sure

Well here is hoping we can still win.

JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
21 Mar 2013, 06:19
#7
21 Mar 2013, 06:19#7

Beeno
I assure weight isn't the issue within the backs, its more suitable seeing that they are quick off the mark. Aplon is a versatile player and superb in attack at times for his size. Its a interesting selection considering that Groom and Deon Fourie is in the replacements, they played well. I suspect Allister Coetzee does comprehend the fact that some need more game time which is a risk, they need to be consistent in the right areas to have reasonably good performance. Having de Jongh back at 13 is a confidence boost, hes a solid defender. Im not entirely sure Stormers will do well due to the selection, however im certain they have prepared a proficient gameplan. I definitely don't expect a one sided contest like Brumbies last match. Hopefully Stormers win.

BO
BoklogicPro1,978 posts
21 Mar 2013, 07:31
#8
21 Mar 2013, 07:31#8

Guys, relax, dont write the Stormers off before they take the field. De Jongh has been good for the Stormers over the years. He is not as bad as people make out. His attack is not that bad. Main thing is they have done a whole lot better as a team since he has been wit WP rugby than previous years.

 

End of the day. De Allende is but 1 painted white line away from replacing him if he proves a flop in his first game back so relax guys. I bet De Jongh proves good as usual. I am telling you, he is not the weak link you guys think he is. I think he adds value.

 

The real mess up here is that one of the best players in both teams on the day will start in the 16 Jersey for the Stormers. ha ha"How can this happen!" I cry!!! Why would you not want Deon Fourie on the park for 80mins against the best team in the comp at the moment?? He would be the first oke I write on the team sheet. Number 6..Done!! If he got broke his leg the night before the game, my first question to the doc would be, "Can he play tomorrow?"  Crazy..Did he not show enough last year to prove he is thrice the player of Kolisi??

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Mar 2013, 08:23
#9
21 Mar 2013, 08:23#9

Lucid

I do not think there will be an attacking game plan - it will center around defence - since from an attaccking perpoective the backline of the Stormers has no attacking capacity.  Last year the De Villiers-De Jongh combination was good on defence and showed nothing in attack.   This year it is likely  to be worse    I definitely would not have selected that backline and I am afraid that the game would be one-sided with a loss of around 15 points.                                   

RE
redsmanPro1,710 posts
21 Mar 2013, 09:31
#10
21 Mar 2013, 09:31#10

Think will be closer than sharks game - brumbies couldnt possibly play that well two weeks in a row.... or could they?? and... Brumbies definitely took foot off the throat or it would ahve been 50pts in it...

Anyway agree picking a small backline against this brumbies side will be damaging to themselves to say the least...

Brumbies to win... but stomers to walk away with <7 bonus point...

 

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Mar 2013, 10:40
#11
21 Mar 2013, 10:40#11

boklogic

I am sorry - but I disagree with you about De Jongh.   I have been following De Jongh's performances for two years and I do not easily say a player is useless - like I did in this case.   Like was the case of Francois Steyn I studied him carefully in the tests last year and in the games this year and I came to the conclusion after looking in detail what the player was up to.    I believe I ultimately came to the right conclusion on that case and I am sure I am also correct in this case.

When I study a player in detail I not only look at my own visual perceptions - but also his stats, looking at both his  defensive and attacking capacity and his physicality he can bring to a team.   I also do not use one-off incidents that rarely gives a reliable perspective of a player ove a prolonged period.

You will have to admit that in the Steyn case I was diappointed by what Steyn produced - in the case of De Jongh I was horrified by what I saw in a player that has played internationally and develop a scrappy image.  Mozart goes on and on about the try scored by De Jongh in the CC final - but that is a typical one-off incident and was totally unexpected since it was something completely different from what De Jongh produced throughout the last two years.

Let me start off by giving the only really positive point of De Jongh - he definitely tackle effctively for a player of his physique - he is not a strong tackler that would tackle an opponent back and he definitely will not cause the ball to die in a tackle situations or to be delayed in being recovered by the opposing players - he just is not physically strong enough for that.   In essence he makes his tackles - but the tackles itself is not as effective as would be the tackles of a strong defender.  

However, it is in attack that De Jongh is really a major problem.    In essence there is one requirement that smaller players must have and that is guile to overcome their physical deficiencies.   Over two years that element has been completely absent from De Jongh's performances.    In some cases - like in the Twckenham test last year - he was absent from the game for 90% of the game - he always was found in positions where it was virtually impossible for the ball to go to in both his own teams case and that of the opposititon.   This was particularly noticeable in the case of where the ball went to the Spingbok side after mauls and was passed by Lambie.  the ball would go to De Villiers and from him to Kirchner - who normally died with it - whilst DeJongh was nowhere to be seen  standing around on the other side of the field of play.  Lets look at the stats of De Jongh and see whether my statement is in fact wrong:-

  de Jongh 0/0 0 0/1/0 0 0 0 0 0 3/0 0/0

The above confirm that I am 100% correct - his contribution was in fact only noticeable extremely rarely and the Springboks might as well have played with 14 players if what he actually produced is taken into account.   He did one cover kick - never handled the ball othrwise and made three tackles throughout the whole game - all other aspects showed a zero contribution.

What really is wrong in the case of the contribution De Jongh made in games insfoar as attacking play is concerned?   The answer can be found in a number of regular features of his displays in games:-

*   De Jongh is not really a good ball player - he tend to knock on balls at crucail stages in attacking play and he rarely pass balls to other players - resulting in attacks being blunted by him.

*   As a result of his small built he is easily tackled by the opposing players - problem is that he is tackled back all the time and he is incapable of releasing balls quickly after being tackled.  The fact that he is tackled back means that his team is put on the back foot and cannot carry the attack further - even if the ballis recovered through a maul situation.  The problem is that the opposition find it relatively easy to affect turnovers in possession in such circumstances.

*   De Jongh has an even more serious problem in tackle situations.   Beause of being easily tackled backwards - he tends to hang onto balls and in the process  give penalties away to the opposition.   Fact is he gives away more penalties than the rest of the backline players of the Stormers  combined - even in the CC final (which Mozart raves about all the time)  De Jongh gave away two penalties that was converted by Lambie and one that was not converted.  That is just too many for comfort.

In his initial performances for the Springboks, the Stormers and WP - he did some attractive things and that is where his favourable image came from.   That image was never really destroyed because he did some flashy things occassionally - like scoring the CC final try - but in reality we are dealing here with a player that has produced very little of real use over a two year period because he was "found out" by the opposition and they know exactly what he would try to do and counter it efficiently and to the advantage of their team. 

This guy really is bad news - he definitely is a worse performer than Steyn ever was.

       

 

— END OF THREAD —

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