The side that should play Scotland

15. Willie 14. JP 13. Kriel 12. de Allende 11. Habana 10. Pollard 9. du Preez 1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. Malherbe 4. Etzebeth 5. Lood 6. Schalk (c) 7. PSDT 8. Vermeulen 
16. Strauss 17. Nkanyane 18. Coenie 19. Alberts 20. Kolisi 21. Paige 22. Lambie 23. Serfontein 

Correction...put in Jannie. Get Coenie the hell off the bench. In fact if he has a bit of indigestion send him home and get another player.
Get Lomp back on the bench and put Victor in their to captain the team.
And why would you take out Louw for Stephanie who doesn't have a clue what he is supposed to do at flank. 

 Du Toit Pom humiliated himself against Japan. I was assured that the little boy was a power loosie, more so than Flip! Then along came Japan and they made a pocky stick out of him. 

Omelette Man is learning slowly. Notice he is no longer starting Paige.  

How did Dupreez make the Saffex team of the week? 
Surely any other the Curry Cup scrum halves would be better than Dupreez.
Just goes to show that weight and age mean nothing without some skill and brains.

 Not sure what game you were watching sharkbok, but Du Preez was outstanding and has developed a great combination with Pollard.

Irony 3IQ look it up.  

 Dave
Where I do agree with you is that there need to be an adjustment on Tight Head.  Jannie was very weak against both Japan and Samoa and was severely criticized on all discussion programmes on local TV.   However, I do not think Coenie should be on the bench.   He was one of the problem selections of Meyer when he selected the squad - since there was no way he should have been - it was a gamble to select him as h did not have any game time for months after another neck operation.  The props should have rather catered for Kitshoff ahead of Coenie and if there was a problem at Tighthead as in fact happened - Nyakane should have been the back-up Tight head.
Why the chorus of idiots is attacking De Jager and wants Matfield to start is another problem.  Matfield will not call any line-outs to come to him when opposed by Ritchie Gray (the latter is too strong a competitor in the air in line-outs) and that would create a line - out problem.  Anyway Matfield injured a hamstring on Saturday - I did not know he had one - looking at his legs I do not think there was space for a hamstring.   However, joking aside, if Matfield is out because of injury, the third lock in the squad should be Du Toit,  This chorus does still not recognize the fact that as a lock De Jager was consistently better than Matfield in any event and the Tight 5 functioned better with him in that position.   
In the game against Samoa I think Louw had his best game in two years and I think he should be retained. 
The captain should be Burger,             

Louw has been surprisingly effective. 

 DF
Louw is a player that should not have been in the squad either - same as the fat and useless Alberts - but he is there and did not vanish from sight altogether on Saturday - so he may have to be retained,

 Mozart you prob from what I have seen have a severe lack of rugby knowledge on this site, you actually think Frans and Matfield are not liabilities. So I woulden't have shots at my IQ, when clearly yours is lower.

 Luke
Careful now - you will become another target for unpleasant personal attacks by Mozart.  However, i agree with your assessment of Matfield and  Fat Fransie.    

 No doubt you are a smart fella 3IQ...so integrate x squared for me.

Funny how the critics of these players can never reference anything tangible. It's always "he destroys the functioning of the pack/backline" or some other tired and worn out variation, but when you ask for references they only get angry and squak that you are stupid and everyone knows it's a fact and if you don't believe it then you are dumber than a KlevarMika with seven spliffs in mouth. 

DF guys like Clever have defective powers of observation and almost zero ability to connect the dots. So they are lost in a world of fat players, old players and players moonlighting in the backline. A player like Campese or Horan who won WCs would have been seen as slow and feeble by these formulistic  observers.

This will be incredibly obvious the moment I say it.....their most devastating missing faculty is a complete, total, I mean utter lack of appreciation of the mental side of the game....confidence, courage, competitiveness, vision....they don't matter. They rate players by the pound, or by age.
A player like Schalk may be a warrior, it buys him not one tiny bit of support.

Dave,I like the bulk of your team, but agree with majority on Coenie (useless). Jannie is the pick of a bad bunch and I would probably be inclined to start Jannie and have Frans on the bench (Same as last game). I would also start Adriaan and bench Bissie.Locks to be Eben and Lood with PSDT on the bench. Back row to be the same, Burger captain and Kolisi on the bench. 

 Hey Chorus of Idiots.
I name specific incidents where players failed and refer specifically to game circumstances.  Take the game for example against Samoa - we were not effective in scrumming and driving mauls as long as Jannie and Victor was on the field of play - when they were replaced there was a turnaround in those two facets of the play and the Springbok Tight 5 dominated their opponents.  
I do not spread fairy tales - I mention specifics of what happened in games.  I also use stats to back up my statements.
Now lets analyse the above two statements -
Desert Fox
I will give you one specific example where Steyn totally destroyed the backline performance of the Sharks.  Go to the 2014 game between the Hurricanes and the Sharks - where in the whole game Steyn made 5 passes  balls - only one of those passes went to SP Marais - the rest of the game the players outside of him never saw the ball,   He was always notorious for ball hogging - not for passing.
Then go to the Bulls game last year in Super 15 as well.   The Sharks had on two occasions a two man overlap in the backline  - but instead of passing the ball from hand to hand drawing the defenders to the ball carriers - he made a skip pass and by the time the recipient got the ball - the defenders did not have to bother about the overlaps and go for the recipient of the skip passes only.  
Then go to the Highlanders round robin game in Durban last year.  The Sharks won a turnover ball in a line-out just inside the Highlanders half and when getting the ball from the turnover - just kick it over the goal line for Ben Smith to dot down the ball and the result was a Highklander kick-in from the 22.  The end result was there was no benefit from that mindless kick of Steyn.
Go to the 2013 Super 15 game between the Brumbies and Sharks in 2013.  After missing 4 tackles in defense and the Brumbies scored tries as a result of follow-up play - the Sharks was in a rare attack within the Brumbies 22.  Instead of passing the ball with Sharks players on both sides of him Steyn tried to make a chip kick straight into the hands of the Brumbies full back.   He caught the ball and a free kcik was the result - end of Sharks attack.  
I can name case after case of similar occurrences in matches Steyn played in in games since 2012 and in 2013 Plumtree was correct in sating that Fransie is no center at all,
I want to remind you that in one thread I asked for specific incidents where Steyn did anything of the wonderful attributes you and Mozart always writes about Steyn and you never came up with one example,   So what you two  write are fairy tales conjured up in your less than fertile minds.
By the way in the Highlanders match mentioned above - your other hero Alberts tried a tackle technique on th Highlanders center Treeby.  It was successful inasmuch as Alberts landed on his backside as a result of that tackle - I called it the Treeby-Alberts tackle technique.  Steyn tried the same technique on De Allende this year and the end result was the same.
Mozart   
I do not suffer from age phobia in respect of players - I leave that to you and Dave.  My comments always said that age is NOT a factor - PERFORMANCE is.   I always am factual and refer to specific incidents - often backed up by stats - when I deal with issues,   
Your comments are again way off the mark.  Yoiu go to Horan and Campese to find an example - two of the best players whose performances were alway top class implying that i would have criticized them - a totally BS assumption.
I never  questioned the issue of confidence, competitiveness or vision of players - unless there are specific instances where players you expect better from shows nothing of the kind,   Again SPECIFIC instances in such cases.  I once queried you about that assumption by merely stating that the spirit may be willing - but the body may not be there anymore.   That was again a fair question and not a statement based on theory,
As to the moonlighting story - was it not Bakkies Botha - whom in his book remarked that Matfield was not always in the backline - in other words he was there most of the time?   Moonlighting in the backline is a fact of life insofar as Matfield is concerned and it is even worse now than it was ever before.
The story on Schalk is also BS.   After the Japan game I was critical of him because of his 4 ball possession losses in tackle situations - nothing else.
I DEAL IN FACTS - NOT FAIRY TALES LIKE YOU TWO MORONS.  POWERS OF OBSERVATION REQUIRES THINKING NOT IDOLIZING WITHOUT THINKING - THAT I LEAVE TO YOU TWO.                                         

 
It's time PSDT get's a run at lock. Once he does he'll make the jersey his own.

Louw is not a openside flanker. I would rather have him on at 7.

Jannie is useless ... but Coenie is a complete and utter embarrassment to South Africa.

Rather start with the injury prone Malherbe and hope he can play the full 80.

Trevor to start at loosehead with the "ol heart palpitation" to stay as long as possible on the bench.

I'd replace Pollard with the amazing Lambie and give him the run of things.

 

"I DEAL IN FACTS - NOT FAIRY TALES LIKE YOU TWO MORONS." 
Like the 6 tackles De Allende missed against Australia being
1) tackles no other players would have attempted and2) due to him getting up from making other tackles and attempting second tackles
Those kind of (completely and utterly fabricated) facts?

 
Does that mean you that you too have an issue with De Allende at 12?

Then who?

Serfontein?? Fat Fransie??

 Moffie only a conservative prick would play the utterly useless Matfield ahead of the impressive Lood.
Actually stupidity would be more fetching.
Let me guess you now want to get rid of Coenie because he got carded against the Japs - grow up old man.
Louw is utterly useless. PSDT is a class act.
Just a clueless old fart to miss out on the obvious

Dumb Shark....last I checked du Preez, Pienaar and Paige were my only WC options you profoundly stupid man.
You really should shut up more 
Could there be a more stupid poster?

No, I don't have a big issue with De Allende at 12. Mike just tried to excuse his missed tackles against Australia with some made-up toss a while ago and I had to correct him. He has defensive problems and I'm not as convinced about him as some people are, but I think he is a talent worth sticking to. 

 Pakie
With respect on the day De Allende tried to make 21 tackles.  Now go and check when last any center attempted that number of tackles in one game.   It is statistically boiling down to a tackle every four minutes in a game.  The fact is that De Allende tried to make tackles which he should have left to others and ended up with an embarrassment of missing six tackles.   
That was clearly reflected in the game.  I am not trying to justify him - he was in his first test playing for SA at 12 and was carrying on as if he had to do everything on the field of play.  Inexperience at 12 was the main reason for that one I believe.  
In the next test against the AB's he made 10 effective tackles out of 12 attempts - which is more or less in line with acceptable in missed tackle ratio's of any center in the game.      

And still you carry on making stuff up.
"The fact is that De Allende tried to make tackles which he should have left to others"
No, that is not a fact and he didn't. All the tackles he attempted were on players coming right at him or through his channel. There were no "tackles he should have left to others". Unless you believe that, when he is in a position to make a tackle, he should stand aside and wait for someone else to do it for fear of his tackle count creeping over 20. 
The fact is, he was very vulnerable to simple inside steps - beaten 4 times that way . Kuridrani took him on directly to score the winning try - and why wouldn't he when he had already beaten him twice in the game?
Anyway, not going to revisit this whole saga again. Believe whatever you're comfortable with.

 

 This just did not happen as you described it and that is a fact as well.  You cannot tell me that the Aussies having circa 50% of ball possession had a player running at De Allende every two minutes - that would be an impossibility unless all players run at him every time the Aussies had the ball in hand.  
So only De Allende needed to make tackles nobody else needed to since De Allende was the only player the Aussies ran to every time any of them got the ball i n hand.  That is a mathematically impossibility in a game of rugby.     

Holy cow. Do you really think 5 tackles every 20 minutes is a mathematical impossibility? 
Let's see now. I've quickly reviewed the game again. Here are all Damien's tackles/assists/misses. Wherever I say "channel tackle" it means the player was running right at the position Damien was occupying in the defensive line at the time.
0:12 - channel tackle inside Aussie 228:02 - misses channel tackle on Horne10:26 - channel tackle on Kuridrani16:59 - tackle assists Habana on Kuridrani18:45 - channel tackles Higginbotham
20:00 - channel tackle on Kuridrani, assisted by Kriel29:23 - misses Folau on the break31:42 - channel tackle Giteau (who had already offloaded)----40:40 - misses channel tackle on Kuridrani50:45 - misses channel tackle on Kuridrani50:53 - channel tackle Horwell51:59 - channel tackle Ashley-Cooper56:52 - misses channel tackle on Folau66:20 - tackle assist on Hooper66:55 - channel tackle Ashley-Cooper68:05 - channel tackle Mitchell69:41 - misses channel tackle on Toomua69:51 - tackle assists Mohoje on Aus #581:34 - misses channel tackle on Kuridrani
Total 19 attempts - 7 misses (I missed the Horne attempt at 8:02 on my original analysis). I may have missed one or two attempts cause I skimmed through the game quickly, but hopefully this nonsense about "mathematical impossibilities" can be laid to rest now. 
Absolutely nothing out of the ordinary took place with regards to De Allende making other people's tackles or whatever your wacky theory is. Australia simply moved a lot of ball down their line. As you can see there was an extremely busy period from minutes 60 and 70 where the Aussies were completely dominating possession and launching one phase attack after the other. It also appears as if Kuridrani was targeting De Allende.

 Oops. Now let's wait and see which opinionated "facts" are produced to counter Pakie's remarks.......

This is not really an attack against De Allende. It is an attack against Mike making stuff up. 
This game did bring out a major flaw in De Allende's armor though - his vulnerability to the inside step. 5 out of those 7 missed tackles were thanks to a simple inside step by the attacker. The Aussies let Kuridrani loose on him, and Kuridrani easily won the showdown. Hopefully Damien would have learned from that.

 The opinion:
Saffex
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 13645RE: The side that should play Scotland 
September 29, 2015, 13:50:47

One has to laugh at how unbelievably pathetic Bok supporters are. Instead of embracing the sheer quality of the likes of de Allende and Kriel, we have a bunch of wankers who have the audacity to sit there and raise question marks against these lads.

The fact:
Pakie
 
Status: Squad member 
Posts: 589RE: The side that should play Scotland 
September 29, 2015, 14:02:51

This is not really an attack against De Allende. It is an attack against Mike making stuff up. 

We can hope Pakie. He has had years to learn, but it never happens. My Prediction is that five years from now he will be making the very same mistakes. I wonder if the media will have picked up on it by that time? Nah! 

 Pakie
I know you are always thinking  that you are always correct,  but your story here is in conflict with the audited stats of ESPN which  which reads as follows:-
Allende0/000/1/949231015/60/000/0
 You alleged 7 misses and there was 6  and you missed two attempts altogether.  You claimed De Allende made 12 tackles and he made 15.
You skimmed through the programmes as you stated - but is in fact 25% out in your calculations.   I must with respect astate that I do not trust calculations by you based on a skimming exercise - so the story you came with is utter BS.   
The fact that you are 25% out and if you look at the opponents that De Allende wa involved in you may realize how far out you really are in your statement even according to your so-called correct statement above:-
His direct opponent was Giteau (! tackle) - his tackles were on all of the following:-
Higginbotham (2)Kuridrani        (6)Ashley Cooper (2)Horne            (1)Folau             (2)Simmons        (1)Toomua         (1)Horwell          (1)Mitchell          (1)
Your interpretations are wrong anyway - but even if you use you story as vaguely accurate - De Allende was involved in tackling 10 different players during the game.  So what you wrote is totally incoherent and absolute BS.   My interpretation of trying to make too many tackles o f different players is absolutely substantiated.   

    

 The best way to settle this "I am right and you are wrong" argument would be if ou Tokkie made an effort to give us the time stamps to the tackles that he has listed. Then one could have a look at the game and decide who has it spot on on who is farting against thunder. Just a suggestion. 
Not that I have any confidence of any such happening. I have personal experience of this on another thread many moons ago.

I already posted a video with time stamps and diagrams of attacking movements. Mika lied through her teeth initially before scurrying away. 

DF 
This weak tackle story of DF ais as much BS as the story of Pakie is in this case.  There are many more string tackles taking players backwards by DE Akkende than any of our other backline players.
It is pathetic on how you lot make wild statements and when asked for facts come up with BS.   The Samoa 12 dominated De Allende - yet he missed on 4 tackles on De Allende and never beat him in a tackle.   Your story is as per normal totally unproven.
I gave you examples above of what Steyn did in specific matches - only a few - but that type of thing happened in every match Steyn played in.  So you cannot countered that anyway.  
Prejudice against players is utter BS and your sdtories about De Allende is nso far out it is unbelievable.   So you decided that De Allende was not up to standard - bird brain Mozart said he is "tractoring", but he is selected as the 12 of the Round in the competition.  So lets get it straight - get reality into that biordbrain of yours if you can.
By the way - lets get this straight as well,   I said De Allende came short in that game insofar as tackles are concerned, but I unlike you I did not totally ignore the 2 line breaks - beating 6 defenders - De Allende made in that game.  Get your piss port thinnk ing straight BSter.          

Haha, how predictable. His direct opponent was Giteau? What, on the team sheet? What the bleeding heck does that matter? On the actual pitch, Australia had Kuridrani attacking his channel. You'll know that if you actually review the footage. Instead, you're just sitting here with a line of ESPN stats in front of you pretending to know what happened on the pitch. It's blatantly obvious that you don't. 
Another little lesson - in phase and broken play, defensive lines are formed dynamically. You shift where you are needed or where the ball goes. You don't seek out your opposite number and try to line up with him. That's why a 12 doesn't tackle the opposite 12 all game long. That's why a 10 has to tackle forwards sometimes. That's why locks tackle backs sometimes. How out of touch with the reality of the game can you possibly be?

And the 7 misses aren't alleged. They are 7 clear misses. Here they are, with time stamps. Go find them. They're all there. 


I'm not talking to you about this again until you come back having watched the video and analyzed the events. I'm going through the trouble of reviewing the evidence and providing facts complete with time stamps for anyone to verify. 
You're sitting there drawing conclusions from a line of stats (stats that you have not even verified the authenticity of yourself because that would actually involve ana-lyzing something instead of sucking nonsense out of your thumb) and then have the audacity to tell me I'm BSing you? With all due respect - go f*** yourself.

DF 
"I already posted a video with time stamps and diagrams of attacking movements. Mika lied through her teeth initially before running away completely. I'll get that Samoa test up later today and we'll see just how Damian ran over people - As Michael clearly stated. So far, he has proven nothing and relies on numbers without context to weave lies."
Lets start with this thing from the start.  You posted a match report on De Allende - and I decided to check what you wrote\ - so I printed the comments and watched the game twice to check your statements.
They were so warped (misrepresented) and contained a number of outright lies as well.  I posted what really happened on an item by item basis as listed by you with the report on what really happened on this site.   You did not respond to what I wrote - but you can ask your friend Ceradunce to find it - it was posted on the Wednesday after the match and bring it up again.  That won't happen because cowards would not do that and be exposed as liars.