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The Springbok squad for the EOYT

Started by clevermike108 REPLIES1,021 VIEWS· 27 Oct 2014, 11:45
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Oct 2014, 11:45
#1
27 Oct 2014, 11:45#1

Bakkies Botha,  Schalk Burger,  Nizaam Carr,  Marcell Coetzee,  Robbie Coetzee, Damian De Allende,  Lodewyk de Jager,  Jean de Villiers, Bismarck du Plessis,  Jannie du Plessis,
Eben Etzebeth,  Johan Goosen,  Bryan Habana,  Cornal Hendricks,  Francois Hougaard,
Jaco Kriel,  Patrick Lambie,  Willie le Roux,  Victor Matfield,  Teboho “Oupa” Mohoje,  Tendai Mtawarira,  Lwazi Mvovo,  Trevor Nyakane,  Coenie Oosthuizen,  Ruan Pienaar,  JP Pietersen, Handré Pollard,  Julian Redelinghuys, Cobus Reinach,  Seabelo Senatla,  Jan Serfontein, Gurthrö Steenkamp,  Morné Steyn,  Adriaan Strauss,  Duane Vermeulen, 
Warren Whiteley.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Oct 2014, 11:50
#2
27 Oct 2014, 11:50#2

The squad is once again let down by a bunch of washed up geriatrics......I guess Meyer missed useless Guthro getting his arse kicked against Bath on Sat? It was along the lines of his Argies drubbing. How the hell can such a poor player retain his spot?

 

What the hell are Bakkies, Steenkamp, Schalk, Matfield, Pienaar and Morne doing in the squad? 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Oct 2014, 11:51
#3
27 Oct 2014, 11:51#3
 The above is seriouly flawed.   What th hell players like Gurthro Steenkmp. Bakkies Botha and Morne Steyn have  to do with the national squad is a disgrace.   Why is Griuthro selected ahead of Schalk van der Merwe.   One can only accept that Steenkamp was thrown into the mix because of the racial issues that rule the selection of squads.   
Why not Willmse ahead of Bakkies Botha who is clearly not an international level player anymore.    
        
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Oct 2014, 11:54
#4
27 Oct 2014, 11:54#4

Pathetic selections Mike by a clueless coach.

 

Steenkamp ahead of v/d Merwe and du Toit is the insult of the year.

 

And why on earth would the squad need 4 flyhalves........how many more life lines is useless Morne being given

 

Geez Meyer irritates me, he is bloody useless  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Oct 2014, 11:56
#5
27 Oct 2014, 11:56#5
 Mozart will hate the squad - the players he dislikes most are all still in the squad - namely
*   Johan Goosen*   Damian de Allende*   Cobus Reinach*   Marcel Coetzee*   Lodewyk de Jager
His favourites - who did not make the squad - will also be a real problem for him:-
*   Juan de Jongh,*   Cilliers



BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Oct 2014, 11:59
#6
27 Oct 2014, 11:59#6

 One thing is clear, Meyer has not yet given up on his game plan under Morne Steyn and Ruan PIenaar, I am sure were Fourie du Preez available he would have been there in place of Reinach.


Why take 4 flyhalves, are we going to play them all at the same time?

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
27 Oct 2014, 12:02
#7
27 Oct 2014, 12:02#7
I also thought we had moved past Morne, Ruan & Steenkamp now. Three scr umhalves and four flyhalves? Looks a bit of a hodgepodge squad this, but at least there's a strong core and well chosen new blood.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Oct 2014, 12:04
#8
27 Oct 2014, 12:04#8
 Dave
I think the following players should notbe in the squad at all:-
Bakkies Botha, Gurthro Steenkamp,  Morne Steyn, Oupa Mohoje, Ruan Pienaar and Victor Matfield.
Please note that 4 of the above players are foreign-based club players who do not really make the grade for their clubs as well, while Matfield is the player that ensures that qwe field a Tight 4 coobination and not a Tight 5 one.       
  
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
27 Oct 2014, 12:08
#9
27 Oct 2014, 12:08#9

Yes, as Pakie said, enough left to select a strong squad, but dear, oh dear, he could have done sooooo much better.

 

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
27 Oct 2014, 12:18
#10
27 Oct 2014, 12:18#10
It looks like Meyer is trying to forcibly entertain loyalties or commitments towards certain players, does it not?
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
27 Oct 2014, 12:21
#11
27 Oct 2014, 12:21#11
 
Guthro "hand me my jam doughnut" Steenkamp in place of Schalk vd Merwe ... ????

Told you guys he would be back.


Bakkies Botha instead of Paul Willemse ... ???

Laughable.


Ruan Piennar ... ???

Incredible!!!!


Johan Goosen ... waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa!!!

Hilarious!!!


Glad for Nizaam and Jaco. Delighted for Julian ... fully deserved.

Poor Lwazi ... he's just there to show a bit of colour. Our fool of coach has no intention of playing him.

A lot of space wasted on wannabes.

Nothing's changed.

Any bets the game plan returns to "kick it all away" ... ??

 




BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
27 Oct 2014, 12:22
#12
27 Oct 2014, 12:22#12

Meyer is very intelligent ... he still does not want to show his World Cup squad.

 

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
27 Oct 2014, 12:24
#13
27 Oct 2014, 12:24#13
 
Think you may be on to something there Blikkies.

Certainly has me fooled.


BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Oct 2014, 12:31
#14
27 Oct 2014, 12:31#14
 

The “What are you thinking?”

Gurthrö Steenkamp (Toulouse, France) - Prop, 52 Test caps

 

The “Wish you weren’t here and please age gracefully”.

Victor Matfield (Vodacom Blue Bulls) - Lock, 117 Test caps

Ruan Pienaar (Ulster, N Ireland) - Scrumhalf, 80 Test caps

Morné Steyn (Stade Francais, France) - Flyhalf, 59 Test caps

 

The “If you want them to last till next year then leave them at home”.

Jannie du Plessis (Cell C Sharks) - Prop, 60 Test caps

Jean de Villiers (captain, DHL Western Province) - Centre, 102 Test caps

 

The “Congratulations boys, hope you get some time on the field”

 Julian Redelinghuys (Xerox Golden Lions) - Prop, uncapped

Jaco Kriel (Xerox Golden Lions) - Loose forward, uncapped

Nizaam Carr (DHL Western Province) - Loose forward, uncapped

Seabelo Senatla (SA Sevens / DHL WP) - Wing, uncapped


The "Didn't see that coming"


Robbie Coetzee (Xerox Golden Lions) - Hooker, uncapped



PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
27 Oct 2014, 12:38
#15
27 Oct 2014, 12:38#15
Yeah Coetzee is a bit of a bolter. I've been much more impressed with Armand.
JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
27 Oct 2014, 12:52
#16
27 Oct 2014, 12:52#16
Julian Redelinghuys, Jaco Kriel, and Nizaam Carr are well deserved call ups. I hope they stay in the team permanently through to the world cup.

Finally a good tighthead gets a call up to replace Jannie although it is most likely that Redelinghuys will not start ahead of him.

Morne Steyn is a poor call up, Demetri Catrakilis is a better option. The only 3 fly half's that should be called up is Pollard, Lambie and Catrakilis. I think it's ridiculous that there is 4 fly half's in the squad, it prevents the team from having a fullback to cover. To call up another fullback would be more reasonable. Kolbe deserved a bok call up just as much as the others do.

Lambie can cover for fullback but it is evident that he is more suited at fly half and has proven to be a flop at fullback, having said that there is no ideal fullback other than Le Roux in this squad.

BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Oct 2014, 12:55
#17
27 Oct 2014, 12:55#17
 Jeromev, apparently Meyer is looking at Goosen as backup for Willie
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Oct 2014, 12:59
#18
27 Oct 2014, 12:59#18
 Biltongbek
Excellent summary -the last one.   There are some things clear to me though.   The WC squad will comprise of three fylhals and Meyer has a choice of four potential flyhalfs.   he had to choose the top two and now the game is on for the third one.    Goosen did exceptionally well for his Club when he started for them - but Morne has as always been piss-poor.   However, we have a case of undieing loyalty at play here - hence the needle is stuck on Morne.   
The second issue is the scrummie issue - there will be three scrummies in the WC squad as well - so the needle is suck on Ruan Pienaar as well.   
As for the hookers - three hookers as well.   Britz is obviously not the answer - and we have a sting of local contenders - Coetzee is just one of those.   Super 15 will actually s ort that one out.
The same applies to the lock issue - Pieter-steph will be back next year and Bakkies is going to go out of contention.    Matfield may also end up on the scrap heap - hopefully he will.
Meyer has a problem to find enough affirmative action selections and that counts for some selections to the squad.   Players like Mohoje, Nyakane, Steenkamp, Hendricks and Mvovo are not the best players available in their positions and will not be the best next year either - but they will have to be in the WC squad to satisfy the politicians.
 
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Oct 2014, 13:11
#19
27 Oct 2014, 13:11#19

CLevermike, I am trying t read between the lines with Meyer's selections.


He is not satisfied with his front row yet, up to date he has had 17 different players tried at some point since he began, the inclusion of Redelinghuys and Coetzee suggests he is not finished yet. 


I agree at lock Bakkies and Vicki is there to share their knowledge and experience with Eben, Lood, Pieter Steph du TOit and perhaps Lewies.


The backrow we have plent of talent, I think Meyer knows what balance he wants there. His selections does seem to suggest he is looking at pace from his flankers and back ups.


I can guarantee you Meyer is still thinking du Preez and PIenaar.


It seems with both Lambie and Goosen he can select both in his squad as they can be back up at flyhalf and fullback, that leaves Pollard undoubtedly as his number one, but I don't like Morne being there at all.


His midfeld I am disappointed in, it seems he has made his mid up that de Villiers, Serfontein and De ALlende will be going, what worries me none of them are natural 13's but he leaves out JJ who in my view deserves more time, so instead he is going for JP as back up.


At wing I am appy to see Senatla, I think he is a talent, Mvovo is nothing special and Hendricks poor under the high ball and defensively OKish.


Our team might look like it is beginning to settle but I am concerned about our defence.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
27 Oct 2014, 13:13
#20
27 Oct 2014, 13:13#20
 
To use a flyhalf as full back cover is just the type of thing one can expect from Meyer.

Who in his right mind would even think of that?

Where the hell is Kolbe?? Why isn't he in the mix??

You get Dumb, Dumber, Dumbest and then you get Meyer.

Goosen shouldn't even make the squad as 10 cover never mind as backup to Willie.

Just when I thought there was hope for Meyer he does this.

 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Oct 2014, 13:27
#21
27 Oct 2014, 13:27#21
 CC 
Just one question - there needs to be 3 flyhalfs in the WC squad - so who should the three be?   
In my book definitely not Boshoff, Catrakillis and Morne.   Of the youngsters I like Van der Walt a lot - definitely ahead of the three mentioned.   Boshoff has ben blowing hot and cold recently and Catrakillis is a Morne type - good at kicking at goal and nothing else.   
Whether you like it or not Goosen is playing well for his club and is the better selection as third flyhalf at this stage.
        
JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
27 Oct 2014, 13:32
#22
27 Oct 2014, 13:32#22
Mike
Hendricks is not a political selection, his selection is based on merit as he's shown great form at test level and in Super XV. Probably the best right winger at the moment in SA, just needs to work little bit on his defence.  

The selection of Mohoje and Senatla seems more like a political selection. As I said before he is not quite ready at test level. He hasn't had much game time in Super XV to show his worth. Senatla is a good sevens player but he also needs to bulk up his body physique and strength for test level. I do think Senatla does have potential and i see him being a great test winger in 3 years from now, Habana would be close to retirement by then and Senatla would be able to replace him at that time.
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
27 Oct 2014, 13:33
#23
27 Oct 2014, 13:33#23
Bakkies, Steyn, PIENAAR, Steenkamp, Jannie....seriously, WTF? 
As has been noted, a very strong side can still be selected from that squad, but farking hell, a some players are just free loading passengers!  
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Oct 2014, 13:39
#24
27 Oct 2014, 13:39#24

Assume a 30 player squad for RWC.


Start with the backline, and players we think is his first choice.


9. FOurie du Preez

10. Handre Pollard

11. Bryan Habana

12. Jean de Villiers

13. Jan Serfontein

14. Cornal Hendricks

15. WIllie le Roux.


Last RWC we had 16 forwards and 14 backs, but I think Meyer would like an extra forward, so likely we will see 13 backs.


THat leaves six positions.

He will take PIenaar and Hougaard, as Pienaar can slot in at 9, 10 , 15 and Hougaard at 9 or 11.


That leaves 4 positions.

If he selects MOrne Steyn that leaves 3 positions.


Damien de Allende looks like the back up for midfield, but can also play wing, JP Pietersen can do both as well.


That leaves one. Who? Lambie or Goosen?


The problem child is Morne Steyn.


Senatla, Mvovo et all is just a waste of time as they won't get a look in, even if he takes 14 backs.

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
27 Oct 2014, 13:44
#25
27 Oct 2014, 13:44#25
Well, the one thing that we now know for sure is that Heyneke Meyer was once caught doing unspeakable things to barnyard animals and Gurthro Steenkamp has the photos to prove it.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
27 Oct 2014, 13:44
#26
27 Oct 2014, 13:44#26
 Goosen has played fullback twice, once where he started and another when he came off the bench for 15 minutes... Where he has played well this season is flyhalf...
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
27 Oct 2014, 13:45
#27
27 Oct 2014, 13:45#27
 
Goosen is injury prone ... in fact he's darn right fragile ... why would I even consider a person that breaks down that easily?

He seems to have developed a fear for contact because of cit. A defensive liability.

This year we've seen him play mostly average rugby. Nothing to write home about apart from one match.

Pollard and Lambie are the best we have currently. Catrakillis doesn't impress me at all.  I much prefer Coleman to him.

None of the Sharks do it for me. None of the Bulls do it for me. That leaves us with Marnitz Boshoff. Like it or not but he is the best of the rest.

There you have my answer.

 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Oct 2014, 13:47
#28
27 Oct 2014, 13:47#28
 Biltongbek
I substantially agree with you on the issues raised - but not necessarily on all the players you mentioned.
I think that Engelbrecht is nothing more than a recycled wing and that Pietersen is not a patch on the player he used to be.   He slowed down like it is unbelievable.  
I have a serious problem with hendricks.  his defense was extreme;ly poor in the Ellis Park test.   Not sure on that score with Senatla either - thinking of the Van der Walt try on Saturday.   Is Senatla not a 7's player par exclelence  and will he make it on intrnational level in the 15 man game?   
To be wuite frank I agree with you about the center situation - but here can Meyer actually go?   Les face facts - we do need a good 13 and the cupboard is bare - very bare.   I think Meyer tried out De Allende at 13 - saw something in his performance at 13 but realises he ahs to get more game time to develop in that position  - particularly in Super 15 next year.   
I would think that Super 15 nest year will decide finally on the 13 position - and I think that Stokkies Hanekom may end up in the Springbok squad for the WC as well.   He is a player with the correct approach - with plenty expereience in the 13 position.  He might have been in the squad for the EOYT - but his injury kept him out.   A doifficult problem at 13 - but utlimately in my opinion it is going to boil down to De Allende, Hanekom and Jordaan for the WC squad.
     
CL
ClaydogClub Pro691 posts
27 Oct 2014, 13:51
#29
27 Oct 2014, 13:51#29
Just when I thought the boks had buried the kick game in favour of running rugby. I really thought Morne was done. Maybe Meyer doesn't have so much faith in the new game in Northern Hemisphere conditions.  
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Oct 2014, 13:53
#30
27 Oct 2014, 13:53#30

Clevermike, I think Meyer has made his mind up that Jan is his 13.


I actually forgot to mention the elephant in the room, Jaque Fo urie, bet your bottom dollar he is not forgotten.


I wish SARU will give Meyer another fur year contract and tell him to build for 2019.


Then I would immediately drop Jannie, Vicki, Bakkies, Fourie du Preez, Ruan Pienaar, Morne Steyn, Johan GOosen, Jean de Villiers, Jaque FOurie (OK I know he isn't there due to injury) JP PIetersen and start over.


I think JJ has more to offer, I believe he can be a international class player. 

BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Oct 2014, 13:55
#31
27 Oct 2014, 13:55#31
Claydog, Morne has compromising pictures of Heyneke, unless we get them back we will not get rid of him.  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
27 Oct 2014, 13:57
#32
27 Oct 2014, 13:57#32
 Hang on CC. Don't write off Goosen. He had all of four minutes of game time again this weekend, I'll have you know.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Oct 2014, 13:58
#33
27 Oct 2014, 13:58#33
Biltongbek
Your backline looks fragile especially at 13 and 14.   I do not think that Serfontein will make the grade at 13 and Hendricks is a defense liability.   Personally I think that De Allende wiill bethe 13 - and will De Villiers make it through tothe WC - I have my doubts.
The 14 poistion is wide upon.
The WC squad normally provides for the following:
Three scrummiesThree flyhalfsThree CentersThree outsid backs.One extra reserve player
I do not think Meyer will veer from that combination for the 2015 WC squad.
    
JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
27 Oct 2014, 13:59
#34
27 Oct 2014, 13:59#34
 When will Meyer ever learn Morne is a bad option?

That performance against Australia away from home this year was a disgrace! Damn you Meyer 
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
27 Oct 2014, 14:02
#35
27 Oct 2014, 14:02#35
 
No Mike.

Meyer will select Jean and Serfontein at 13 with De Allende as cover for both center spots and possibly wing.

Hendricks is a defensive liability but that won't prevent Meyer selecting him as our starting 14. 

I really think Meyer has moved on from the useless JJ. I doubt he'll make the squad. Even Meyer isn't that stupid.

Meyer will more than likely select the aging plodder JP Pietersen but he'll do bench duty.

All his other favourites will return with a bang. The Guthro Steenkamps, the Bakkies Botha's, the Ruan Pienaars, The Fourie Du Preez's and no doubt Victor Matfield will be part of the world cup squad.

Gauranteed.

You can hope and pray all you like ... Meyer is stuck in the twilight zone and that's where he'll remain.

And to put the cherry on the cake ... we'll re-adopt the kick it all away game plan.

We are in trouble boys.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Oct 2014, 14:03
#36
27 Oct 2014, 14:03#36
 CC
Boshoff after Saturday's fiasco - he was poor in the extreme - his decisionmaking was bad in capital letters - nearly as dumb as Morne Steyn is.   
Sorry - but the Goosen injurystory has been over-played.  he had a slight injury in June that kept him outof play for two moths - and he is back at wwork again full time.   The so-called fear to amke contact is a myth - he is a better defender and ball carrier than either Boshoff or Morne is.   There is no evidence that he does not attack the gain line in any event. 
We need flyhalfs who can make decisions - not dumb ones like Boshoff and Morne Steyn.    

BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Oct 2014, 14:03
#37
27 Oct 2014, 14:03#37

Clevermike, that is not my backline, that is what I believe Meyer is thinking.


I am going to make the following statement, you guys can lynch me if you want to.


There is a remskoen in the Bok camp, it is the continued presence of Matfield, du Preez and Steyn, alongside John SMit they dictated the ter ms of engagement for the Boks from 2008-2011, if we are ever going to move forward, they must be gone. 

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
27 Oct 2014, 14:07
#38
27 Oct 2014, 14:07#38
 
Wow Ceradyne ... sure looks to be setting the world alight.

A full 4 minutes, huh?  ... was that without any water breaks?




CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Oct 2014, 14:08
#39
27 Oct 2014, 14:08#39
 Biltongbek
You ae 100% correct and you may add Bakkies Botha and Gurthro Steenkamp to your list of "dictators".     They should not be anywhere near the squad.   After all they were a major part of the failed 1011 WC campaign.     
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
27 Oct 2014, 14:15
#40
27 Oct 2014, 14:15#40
 
I agree Mike ... Boshoff had a shocker. Not his best day that's for sure.

He was much better against the Sharks and so was Cronje.

Cronje was very poor last weekend and I feel he played a big role in Boshoffs play. Groom outplayed him completely and that put a lot of pressure on Marnitz.

Excuses aside. Goosen is a poor rugby player. He is by a long shot not test material. Completely over rated.

Sorry you won't ever convince me regarding him.




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