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FORUM / RUGBY /  The squad Meyer might have picked if all went his way.

The squad Meyer might have picked if all went his way.

Started by DbDraad28 REPLIES587 VIEWS· 03 Sept 2015, 12:47
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DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Sept 2015, 12:47
#1
03 Sept 2015, 12:47#1

I really think that, if Meyer could have had his way, our RWC squad would probably have looked very close to this:

  1. Beast, Guthro & Coenie
  2. Bismarck, Strauss & Britz
  3. Jannie, Malherbe & Trevor Nyakane
  4. Eben & Bakkies 
  5. Matfield & Bekker. (PSD and Lood made the cut by default.)
  6. Flo & Marcell...???
  7. Alberts, Burger & Juan
  8. Duane & Spies
  9. FDP & Pienaar
  10. Morne, Pollard & Lambie
  11. Habana
  12. Jean & Fransie
  13. Jacque Fourie & Either one of Jean/Serfontein/JPP
  14. JPP and whoever was the flavor of the day
  15. Zane and Willie.

Now, first of all, I don't think he is bias towards the Bools for any other reason than the following:

  1. Meyer has his own vision of how he wants to play the game
  2. He gradually builds his teams according to that vision.
  3. This includes the recruitment of younger players to fit this vision
  4. Prior to getting the Bok job, he was very much involved in rebuilding the Bulls, including the recruitment of young players that fit in with this vision. He obviously recruited players that he deemed to have the potential to become the best in their positions.
  5. He picked players for the Bulls because he rated them as very good in the first place, thats why he picked them for the Boks - he rated them highly as players, not because they were Bulls.

 

Now, if we have a closer look at the squad above:

 

  1. Beast is the obvious pick, for obvious reasons, But Guthro was given more opportunities to be in the squad than he actually deserved. Greyling, another Bool was also given chances, ahead of other better players. Kitshoff was probably not there yet at that time, but IMHO, he could at least have given him and some others a chance as well.(2/3)
  2. The 2 hookers picked themselves. Again, Strauss and Trevor Nyakane are Bools now, and I'm sure the powers in Pretoria might still get some input from Meyer.(1/3)
  3. Jannie,Trevor Nyakane & Malherbe . Jannie, picked himself, but even Werner Kruger was given a chance at the Boks(I did not verify this...from memory), although IMO there were better options. Marcel vd Merwe was also given ample opportunity. (3/5)
  4. Eben picked himself, but Bakkies was in the runnings, until he withdrew of own accord. (Bakkies is not there due to serious injury in the start of Meyer's tenure and because he decided to call it quits himself. Flip got a run and I won't be surprised if Meyer tried behind the scenes to get Danie Rossouw into the mix as well!)(2/3)
  5. First choice was always Matfield, but he did try to recruit Bekker. Flip also got some opportunity. PSDT obviously impressed Meyer and I'm sure he would have tried to recruit him for tha Bulle if it was up to him.(2/4)
  6. Flo and Marcell (he did try Donkey Potgieter from Da Bools, not?)(1/3)
  7. Juan, Alberts & Scalla (0/3) 
  8.  Duane & Spies (I think if Spies weren't injured we would have seen more of him, but there wasn't actually true contenders) (1/2)
  9. FDP & Pienaar (wasn't Hougie tried?) (2/3)
  10. Morne, Pollard & Lambie (IMO he rated them in that order, but he was swayed by pressure by the public and media) (2/3)
  11. Habana (old Bulle connection) (1/1)
  12. Jean & Fransie (With Serfontein also tried) (1/3)
  13. Jacque Fourie & Either one of Jean/Serfontein/JPP, even JJ got a run. (1/3)
  14. JPP and whoever was the flavor of the day. (0/1)
  15. Zane and Willie, but Lambie and Morne also tested)....we are lucky he decided to stick mostly with Willie, made easier by Side-Show Bob playing in Europe. (2/4)

Total of (21/44) with Bulle connections, but if you add the fact that a further 15 were older, established players (36/44), you will see that of the newer players, only about 8 young players with no Bools connections got proper chances in the squad above. Some of the players were counted twice if they played in more than one positions and I counted Duane and Marcel as younger players, here is the list:

  1. Eben
  2. PSD
  3. Lood
  4. Marcel
  5. Duane
  6. Willie
  7. Lambie 
  8. Malherbe

I did not include all players picked by meyer, only those that in most cases had proper chances...and from the top of my head. 

SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
03 Sept 2015, 13:39
#2
03 Sept 2015, 13:39#2
Yep, that would have been his squad  
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Sept 2015, 14:58
#3
03 Sept 2015, 14:58#3
DBDraad 
Meyer said in 2012 he selected players he was acquainted with and that was basically why in 2012 15 Bulls and ex-Bulls were given chances to either start with the Boks or be on the bench.   That means you left out some of their players from the list.
The Bulls or ex-Bulls player list comprises the following (the highlighted players are still in the squad):-
Kirchner, Habana, Basson, Engelbrecht, Olivier, Serfontein, Steyn, Du Preez, Hougaard, Paige, Spies, Matfield, Botha, J Kruger, Greyling, Strauss, Nyakane, Steenkamp, Pollard, Potgieter, W Kruger, M van der Merwe,  F van der Merwe
From the above list it looks like being a Bulls or ex-Bulls player gave anybody a chance to get into the inside lane for Springbok selection by Meyer.
Please note that Lambie was already in the Springbok team when Meyer took over as a Springbok coach so he was not in fact one of the new players that came on Board as a result of Meyer' selection - so the list of new players without any Bulls connection was in fact 6 and not 7.  However, you left Malherbe, Hendricks and Koch off your list so that makes it 9 new players, without any Bulls connection.   The number of new Bulls players Meyer selected was 7 out of the list of 22 players.
However, there is no way that your list of selections Meyer would have liked to have in his squad is correct and that he was really hoping for that to happen.  His total lack of building a proper squad for the 2015 RWC is to my mind deplorable.            
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
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MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Sept 2015, 15:02
#4
03 Sept 2015, 15:02#4
So I guess if he didn't choose him, JJ he has to be really piss poor. Actually HM and I have never been Marcel fans....a chicken with his head cut off. My guess is Spies is in hard training.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
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MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Sept 2015, 15:03
#5
03 Sept 2015, 15:03#5
Kitshoff is the ONLY player that I consider unlucky. All these serial flops like Jantjies who keep getting recirculated would collapse like a deck of cards in a Twickenham knockout game.....get real. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Sept 2015, 15:18
#6
03 Sept 2015, 15:18#6
 The only person to get real is you.  The aged and useless has-beens or never-has-beens  who have lost their performance abilities comprehensively, is more of an embarrassment than the players you have mentioned.     
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DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
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DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Sept 2015, 15:25
#7
03 Sept 2015, 15:25#7
 Mike, I left Malherbe off the top list, but he was counted in my bottom list. Hendricks and Koch I left out due to them not really getting chances. Same for Mvovu. I included players in the squad that I think he really had an interest in, and Bulls that got chances without really deserving it. Not all of them either. Read the underlined heading in bold for my reasoning on his Bulls "bias". I should have added that he picked players for the Bulls because he rated them as very good in the first place, thats why he picked them for the Boks.I did not create this thread as an attack or even critique on Meyer, but as an explanation of his thinking from my point of view. 
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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Sept 2015, 16:26
#8
03 Sept 2015, 16:26#8
 Draad
I was not going to attack Meyer either and I am sorry if that is what my comments in fact entailed.   There was no way that Meyer did not give preference to Bulls players he was acquainted with - he used the terminology himself.  
What i did say is he prefers Bulls players and that is definite from the number of Bull players he awarded since 2012.  Some of the players did not perform - and they fell by the wayside, but it was much harder for players from other franchises to be selected and keep their places in the squad than it was for Bulls or ex-Bulls players.
That is a fact of life and the issue of "stampkar" rugby is another problem Meyer never shook off.   He wanted that playing style and was in that respect in the same boat as Ludeke.   Play the older players who was involve in that type of rugby - the Bulls were using that system for years until Ludeke got the boot and suddenly we see with brilliant results a different style of play in CC with a new breed of players.   Meyer must have suffered  a shock at what happened and if he is appointed as Blue Bulls coach he would immediately stop the present breed and change back to "stampkar rugby".               
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
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CeradynePro9,374 posts
03 Sept 2015, 16:54
#9
03 Sept 2015, 16:54#9
"There was no way that Meyer did not give preference to Bulls players he was acquainted with - he used the terminology himself." 
Twisting the facts to your own agenda again, are you? HM never said that he gave preference to the Bulls. He did say that he was intitially..... let me repeat that again because you are to thick to get it initially... got it.............. initially  going o go with what he was acquainted with. And he qualified the reasons why he had to do that. He was appointed at the eleventh hour, had to sort out supports staff, etc, etc before he could even get to start doing anything about the team. Bear in mind that there was hardly a team left.
Then you go around quoting number of this, that and the other players. This is what I posted elsewhere on the same subject:

This is going to be what Heyneke Meyer left us with for the next RWC, if he is not dumped after the RWC (and that is off the top of my head):

In the current RWC squad:

Willie Le Roux, 

Jesse Kriel, 

Pollard, 

Serfontein, 

De Allende,

PSDT, 

Lood de Jager, 

Eben, 

Frans Malherbe, 

Trevor Nyakane, 

Coenie, 

Kolisi.

Not in the current squad:

Marcell Coetzee, 

Marcell vd Merwe, 

Mohoje, 

Whitely?, 

Koch, 

Reinach, 

Stephan Lewies, 

Arno Botha. 

That is 20 Boks capped by HM. Compare that to what he was left with after PDV. There are exactly 7 X "PDV players" in the current RWC squad. They are Strauss, Britz, Beast, Morne, Zane, Flo and Lambie.


PDV's RWC squad (his own caps):

Willem Alberts, 

Heinrich Brussow, 

Flo, Hougaard, 

Morne, 

De Jongh, 

Aplon, 

Odwa, 

Lambie and 

Kirchner. Ten of his own caps. The rest were Jake's and  before.  


Bear in  mind that he capped 29 and only 10 of them made the 2011 RWC squad. That means that 34.5% of his caps made his own RWC squad. 


HM has capped 34 and 13 made his RWC squad. That is 38% of his caps making his own RWC squad. But, and this is the catch. The chances are very big that much more than 38% of the players capped by HM will be playing in the next RWC. 


CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Sept 2015, 17:55
#10
03 Sept 2015, 17:55#10
 What a bugger up our good ceradyne is - he is twisted like the useless fart he is.  Meyer was appointed in January 2012 and had ample time to study the form of players and get his staff together - since the first tests were only played in June 2012.   How much longer did Meyer need to get his staff together and why did he not study the form of all participating teams to get an idea as to which players should be selected during Super 15 that year?
The remark as to the players he is acquainted with was made at the end of 2012 - not in explanation for hsi 2012 selections.  He in fact admitted that in using his acquaintance with players was a mistake.
The chances are very big that Meyer made a flop selection of the 2015 RWc squad and the reason is clear - he made up his mind in 2012 whom he want in the squad and aside from the three players who themselves retired - the other 14 players are all in the squad.  That leaves space for 17 players for Meyer's present squad and because of his dabbling with players like Bakkies Botha, Gurthro Steenkamp, jacques Fourie and quite a number of other players the younger players are seriously inexperienced insofar as test rugby is concerned.   
Fact is that for Meyer performance was not at all a criterium for selection - it was based entirely on reputation.  his recent remark about Fourie du Preez was revealing.  he said that he knows what Du Preez is capable of in matches - but what about the fact that he has not played any real rugby for 14 months and at the age of 33 years the question can rightfully be asked - is Du Preez still capable to do what eh did produce in the past?  There is NO proof that he is.
The same story applies to most of the elderly in the squat - they regularly under-perform - but that does not bother Meyer - he obviously knew what they were capable of the past and present performance does not count.
We went out of the 2011 WC because the squad selection was weird - the squad selection this time around was weirder still and that is going to result in the same early exit from the competition.  Like in the 2011 WC, Meyer's "stampkar" rugby is not going to help us out this time around.     
    
      
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
03 Sept 2015, 18:02
#11
03 Sept 2015, 18:02#11

What a crock of shit


Kirchner, should not have been there in the first place as there is 15 cover in Kriel and Lambie so I wont bother pointing out the better options than useless Zane


Habana, JP and Mvovo are not the best wings in the country........Senatla, Sithole, Rhule, v/Wyk, Kolbe, Ulengo and Combrink all offer more.


Jean is not close to being one of the top 5 centres in the country - Serfontein, Vortser, Odendaal, Swanepoel, Mnisi, Stokkies, Mapoe, Frans Steyn and Frans Venter are all better.


Morne has never been test standard - Jantjies and Goosen are twice the players


du Preez and Pienaar are done, Paige a never been - Hougaard, Faf and Reinach are all far better.


Beast still has the goods, but Kitshoff is better as is Thomas du Toit and possibly Kebble


Jannie is long past his best, Marcel has already proved he is better at test level and Koch showed this S15 that he is better


Matfield is an insult, the fact that he is still playing is a joke - Willemse, Ruan Botha, Jean Kleyn, Jacques du Plessis and Lewies are all far better options......it is not even close.


Alberts and Louw are at best average these days, Schalk is looking ok......but Carr, Brussouw, Jaco Kriel, Elstadt, v/d Walt, Labs, CJ Stander, Mtembu and Arno Botha are all better options.


The fact that we do not have the best players in the squad means that at least 15 better players would have made a big difference to the squad.


Kirchner, Habana, JP, Mvovo, Jean, Morne, du Preez, Pienaar, Paige, Jannie, Matfield, Louw, Alberts and Schalk should not have made the squad as some are far from being the best in their respective positions while others are just no longer the best


This is a fact, evidenced by the results and slip in rankings by the current Bok side under useless Meyer.....we keep losing because the WRONG players keep getting selected


  

GE
generaltit
Pro3,164 posts
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
03 Sept 2015, 18:08
#12
03 Sept 2015, 18:08#12
 mike i hope we are both wrong...even if we get to quarters and semis which i give a possibily to...rugby is a strange game...i'm not positive at all...but one thing i know whoever the players are they WILL do their country proud...its time to support them no matter how you feel about their selections
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
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CeradynePro9,374 posts
03 Sept 2015, 18:11
#13
03 Sept 2015, 18:11#13
"Meyer was appointed in January 2012 and had ample time to study the form of players and get his staff together - since the first tests were only played in June 2012." 
Other national coaches and their support staff were appointed around November and they could start straight with their preparations straight away. None of the previous two national coaches had any provincial/franchise responsibilities at the time of their appointment and in addition it was at the end of the season. On top of that, their first involvement was to take a nicely settled in group of players on an end of  year tour straight away and get to know the players, etc. In PDV's case it was actually the group who has just won the RWC.
HM's appointment was only finalised on 27 January. He had to start putting together his support staff and the first lot who he apporached, Alister Coetzee, etc eventually turned him down. He had to wind down his work at the Bulls where he was involved in the pre-season planning of the entire Bulls coaching set-up. In addition he had tough negotiations with various unions who he had to persuade to release people who he wanted as support staff. That took a lot of time, since all of those were already involved with their unions/franchises just like HM himself was. To top it all, he had six days in which to prepare his team for the first test against England. No other previous coach was in that position.
"What a bugger up our good ceradyne is - he is twisted like the useless fart he is. "Who is the useless fart now you worthless heap of hyena sick. Go f'ck yourself.


DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Sept 2015, 20:59
#14
03 Sept 2015, 20:59#14
 Cera,  with respect,  PdV and HM can't really be compared by weighing the new players they capped.  PdV inherited a relatively young team and as a result he did not have to replace as many players as Meyer had to. Both could have done more,  but IMO Meyer wasted more opportunities on hasbeens. 
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
03 Sept 2015, 22:01
#15
03 Sept 2015, 22:01#15
 Hang on a minute, Draad . We have been told a few times that PDV has probably been a better bet than HM. A few wisecracks were even calling for HM to be fired and PDV brought back, The favourite topic is that HM, with his "geriatrics" have taken us backwards and has done nothing for the future. The truth is that HM has done more in terms of building than PDV would ever have been able to do.
This is where your remark becomes interesting. Of course PDV did have top replace as many players because of his younger "inheritance" but what has he left us? F@kol. We are now reaping two things. The one is the fact that HM had to make all kinds of funny decisions to get something going. In other words we are reaping the balls ups of PDV. The other thing is that we will only reap the benefits of what HM has done post the RWC when "his" players will really be coming to their own. The next coach, whether it will be HM or someone else will reap the benefits. HM will leave behind almost a full RWC squad who will be young enough and well experienced come the next RWC.
I have listed 20 of the current players who would in all probability be the majority of the next RWC squad. That would leave you another 11 who would be the youngsters to emerge after RWC 2015. What better combination do you need?
BO
bobbok...
Captain10,129 posts
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
03 Sept 2015, 23:21
#16
03 Sept 2015, 23:21#16
  o

There was a recent delightful pic of a 12 year old when Dan Carter drew his name to carry the ball on at 1st AB RWC game .... stunned look, mouth open wide.
Like this laaitie ........ hey, that's him !
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Sept 2015, 23:23
#17
03 Sept 2015, 23:23#17
 Ceradunce
Have you ever thought why Meyer capped those players and how some of them  happen to be in the WC squad?  I think not - because you never think logically about anything.
In the current RWC squad:


Willie Le Roux - because Kirchner was injured and Le Roux proved to be better, 

Jesse Kriel,     -  because Jacques Fourie decided to retire

Pollard,           -  because Morne was sh!t

Serfontein,      -  because of injury to Fourie

De Allende,     -  because of injury to Fourie

PSDT,             -  because Matfield did not accept initial approach 

Lood de Jager,-  because Bakkies was injured and De Jager replaced him from bench

Eben,              -   because Botha turned his initial approach down

Frans Malherbe -  because of injury to Jannie du Plessis

Trevor Nyakane -  Because he needed a back-up for Beast 

Coenie               -  , 

Kolisi.                 -   BEE

Not in the current squad:

Marcell Coetzee, -  Initially because Louw was not considered 

Marcell vd Merwe,-  Injury selection

Mohoje,                -  BEE

Whitely?               -  Because of injury to Vermeulen 

Koch,                   -   Because of injury to Jannie and Malherbe

Reinach,              -   Because both Pienaar and  Du Preez injured 

Stephan Lewies,  -   Because Bakkies was injured and it was a poor opponent

Arno Botha.       -  Because Alberts was injured
Get the message - Meyer only made changes because some players were injured.  Most of the above had little game time with very few caps.  There was never an intention to build a squad - it was in the main merely stopgap measures to cater for temporary non-availability of players.  Some players turned out to be so much better than Meyer's favourites - they remained in the team.  
Lets face facts - Meyer made only changes because he was forced to - not because he wanted to develop players as part of his squad.  Basically the result is that most of the newer players had very little game time in the team.   Three  of the 10 younger players would not have been there is the three retirements did not materialize.            
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Sept 2015, 23:30
#18
03 Sept 2015, 23:30#18
Gosh....what brilliance. The younger players got their first chance because the established player had an injury. That's  almost always the case dumbass....look at Dagg and Mils, Barrett and Cruden, Hooper and Pocock. 
What a waste of time, you spend all that time proving HM does what all coaches do. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Sept 2015, 23:40
#19
03 Sept 2015, 23:40#19
 Mozart
All coaches do - but they also have some consistency in using younger players - Meyer never has done anything. but stick to a lot of stampkar players and very few of the younger players has any regular appearances.  
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Sept 2015, 23:54
#20
03 Sept 2015, 23:54#20
 Oh balls. JJ had a whole season. Step  had a whole season. Willie has had the last 3 years. Pollard has been rotated with Lambie...no different from Oz or NZ. Hougaard kept getting yet another chance.Malherbe has been in the 23 whenever   fit since last year. Same with Coenie. Coetzee has been an institution.
Hell Steph  in spite of showing nothing yet in a Bok jersey because of injury is off to the WC based on 20 minutes of bench time.

Etzebeth is the right example. The coach picked him, he delivered and he has had 100 per cent support even when injured.

The problem has not been HM letting down the youngsters. The problem has been the youngsters have often let down HM.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Sept 2015, 04:58
#21
04 Sept 2015, 04:58#21
 Mozart
Youi really are the worst pierce of sh!t I have ever come across in my whole life.  Have you seen JJ's name amongst those mentioned by the Ceradunce idiot above?   So suddenly out of the blue comes the name of JJ as a decoy.
Then the standard BS about "The problem has not been HM letting down the youngsters. The problem has been the youngsters have often let down HM."  That is a joke in bad taste and the question is how many times have players like Morne, Alberts and Matfield being worse let-downs than any of the younger players, yet never a word about them.   In that case a string of excuses have been the only thing that came out of you - most excuses based on lies and deception by you.     
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Sept 2015, 05:11
#22
04 Sept 2015, 05:11#22
JJ is not a decoy Perv, just another example of a young player HM gave every chance. Every young player of any substance has been given ample opportunity to prove they belong in test rugby. 
There is a huge amount of moaning about who is in the squad. But who is not in the squad who has a snow ball's chance in hell of making a difference in a WC final.....Hougaard, Reinach, Jantjies, Voster, Coetzee, Brussouw? 
Give me a break, those players have had chance after chance.
So the fact is, Kitshoff excepted and we know why he is not there.....nobody who is not there matters a damn. So what's your case....just a rant at a bunch of Bok veterans that still are a better bet than that bunch in a one off, high pressure match.

Enough of this balls.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Sept 2015, 05:32
#23
04 Sept 2015, 05:32#23
 Sure what about the 2011 WV where we did not get to the final and was beaten in the quarterfinal.  Who let the team down then and why are they still in the squad?   They did not make a difference then and will after four long years suddenly make a difference in the tournament this year?   
Who is this Voster you mentioned above anyway?   But let me just ask you one question - on what basis was a player like Matfield selected?  He played in 12 tests over the last 15 months and the Springboks lost half of them because he weakened their Tight 5 - yet he is not questioned because of that.  Steyn let us down in numerous tests - yet he is there.   You can go on and on about the list of failures in Meyer's squad - and they have not let the team down?
Your stinking prejudice against some players is seen on this site time and time again - the letdowns often enough were your favourites - yet according to you they did not let the team down.
I really am amazed how the players you fawn over can get away with letting the team down - while those on your hate list comes up time and time again as letting the team down.           
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Sept 2015, 05:47
#24
04 Sept 2015, 05:47#24
Two points. We were eliminated in the RWC QF i in a very close game, where the ref made many recorded mistakes that cost us. Mistakes that totalled many points including the Poclock kick through from an offside position for the first Oz try.


Secondly, you called for catastrophic Matfield failures both in the Sharks match and in the Bargie BA test. Instead he outplayed Stephanie in the Sharks match....as agreed by every journalist who wrote on the game. And the Boks won in BA, and of course then Matfield was forgotten.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Sept 2015, 07:43
#25
04 Sept 2015, 07:43#25
 Matfield took one line out ball on own throw and one on opposition throw in that game and was comprehensively outplayed by Du Toit in that game - statistically there was no comparison between Matfield and Du Toit - the latter was twice the player Matfield was in that game.  Not every journalist wrote the crack[pot idiocy of one who wrote crap about the Su Toit - Matfield issue.
So lets look at the stats on that match anyway:-
Matfield0/100/4/76000110/01/110/0
S du Toit0/000/2/828121015/46/010/0
Now you tell me why Matfield was better than Du Toi in that game  - looking at all the stats.   
Matfield was bog ordinary in the Argentina match - same as was Alberts whom you praised to high heaven.   The fact is that he was the player who played and destroyed the Bok Tight 5 - thus contributing to a string of losses - in nearly half the games the Springboks played in with Matfield as a what?  A lock he certainly was not since that requires some effort in the engine room and Matfield provided zero in that regard.  
TT
The_Truth
Club Pro471 posts
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
04 Sept 2015, 09:22
#26
04 Sept 2015, 09:22#26
 Morne has never been test standard - Jantjies and Goosen are twice the players


Comparing them.... hahahaha!!! Clown! Idiot! Dunce!

The over all record is already so much in favour of Steyn that its laughable.

Jantjies 50% Goosen as flyhalf 40%

Steyn had one seriously bad match where his kicking cost us dearly in New Zealand, but that was it... So, I'll even be nice and remove that one from Goosen (still a 50% then). The one in Aus we were in the lead at that stage when Goosen came on and left the barn door open.


"That is a joke in bad taste and the question is how many times have players like Morne... ...being worse let-downs than any of the younger players"


Just including the period where Steyn's performances was so "atrociously deficient" that it became a "joke in bad taste"... You know, the period leading up to him being dropped from the team


won

won

won

won

won

won

won

lost

won

lost

won

won

won

won

won

won

won

lost (Morne gets dropped) (83%)

lost

won

won

lost

won

won

lost

lost

lost

lost

won (45%)


So I was wrong then. It is not 80% - 50%

But in fact 83% - 45%

SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
04 Sept 2015, 10:24
#27
04 Sept 2015, 10:24#27

Fuck me JJ as his highlights package that year proved and his outstanding performance against NZ was anything but a flop that year......you have to be one fucking stupid observer to conclude that JJ flopped at test level.....what an insult. The fact that useless Meyer discarded him is of no consequence given how utterly useless Meyer is.....hell his picks keep losing us test matches and have us slipping down the rankings......he is hardly the measure now is he. How you can discard a player after his mouth watering performance with ball in hand against NZ is beyond me......that performance by a Bok 13 was the best we have seen in a decade.


As for Serfontein, he has had one full season at test level playing out of position and making a big enough impact for clueless Meyer to rave about him only to have Moz tell us he failed - what utter bloody rubbish......the guy is 22 for goodness sake......if it was not for clueless Meyer and his blind faith in a washed up donkey in Jean, Serfontein would have been a sure bet for the WC


The biggest flop at test level has been Morne Steyn......that is what you call a failure  

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Sept 2015, 10:43
#28
04 Sept 2015, 10:43#28
 Trooth Fairy
Morne was dropped three times since 2012 for buggering up matches comprehensively.
The fowl ups he made in the June test in PE in 2012 - when he was so bad he even got boo-ed by the public - followed by atrocious performances in the RC that year, culminating in the Dunedin test - after he was dropped for the year.
That was followed by the tests in 2013 - when Meyer to his discredit brought him back and it culminated in atrocious performances against the AB's - especially in the Ellis Park test - when eh should also have got the boot.
In 2014 he was dropped twice - after an exceptionally poor performance in the second test against Wales in June and then again after the disaster in Perth, when eh desperately tried to make sure the Springboks lost and he ultimately succeeded in that.
Here you have a clueless flyhalf with only one asset - his ability to kick at goal.  He is so lowly rated by his club that he normally is allowed on the field of play only during the last 10 minutes of their games and only started when their favoured flyhalf - Plisson - is not available.
If a player is too weak to start regularly for his club - is he good enough to play international rugby? Definitely not - only fools would think he is.          
GE
generaltit
Pro3,164 posts
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
04 Sept 2015, 13:46
#29
04 Sept 2015, 13:46#29
I agree Mike, Morne is a utility player only when we are on top and not a game changer...Naas was different many years ago but also a good reader...Morne can do the job in conservative rugby but does not inspire
— END OF THREAD —

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