15. Lambie
14. Mvovo
13. JP Pietersen/ JJ Engelbrecht
12. Frans/ Jean
11. Habana
10. Jantjies/ Morne
9. Hougaard/ du Preez/ Pienaar
1. Beast / Coenie
2. Bismark/ Chiliboy/ Strauss
3. Jannie/ Malherbe
4. Etzebeth/ Flip
5. Kruger/ Elstadt
6. Brussouw/ Daniel
7. Coetzee/ CJ Stander/ Alberts
8. Spies/ J.Strauss
In my short time of watching Super Rugby, I would have to agree. I'm pretty sure for you 10 would be Goosen/Jantjies if Goosen wasny injured. ;)
Picking a Rugby team for NZ, and SA is a tricky thing. You could probably have two squads each that would compete. So the key is continuity, and how well they all get along and come together. Plus, old guard mixed in well with the new guard.
Yeah if Goosen was fit, Morne would be out
15. Lambie
14. Mvovo
13. JP Pietersen/ JJ Engelbrecht
12. Frans/ Jean
11. Habana
10. Jantjies/ Morne
9. Hougaard/ du Preez/ Pienaar
1. Beast / Coenie
2. Bismark/ Chiliboy/ Strauss
3. Jannie/ Malherbe
4. Etzebeth/ Flip
5. Kruger/ Elstadt
6. Brussouw/ Daniel
7. Coetzee/ CJ Stander/ Alberts
8. Spies/ J.Strauss
The players in bold are ready for international rugby. The players in italics for sure aren't ready for test rugby. And the ones in regular type I'm not sure about.
I certainly have more faith in our players than you do. If we went with your take, chances are we would lose every test we played
Just a quick question, do these test matches going on in June all over the world count in the world rankings?
'I certainly have more faith in our players than you do. If we went with your take, chances are we would lose every test we played"
Hahahaha. You have so much "faith" in our team, you have picked the Poms to beat us. I would never do that, even if Jantjies, Mvovo, Spies, Flip Flop and Blackbeard were in the team. The fact is you have no faith in our current team, which I think could easily have won the RWC.
Moz you know exactly what I meant when I said we would struggle against England and I stand by that. Meyer certainly will not be selecting our strongest side, he is going to go conservative and select a bunch of hasbeens, coupled with a Bulls bias. We will see Kirchner, Habana, Jean, Morne and du Preez in the backs for a start - how the hell do we hope to dominate the Poms with that.
If Meyer selected the following side, we would put 20 past England:
15. Lambie 14. JP 13. Taute 12. Frans 11. Mvovo 10 Goosen 9. Hougaard 1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. Mujati 4. Etzebeth 5. Bekker 6. Brussouw 7. Vermeulen 8. Spies 16. du Preez/Pienaar 17. JJ.Engelbrecht 18. Jordaan/Whitehead 19. Coenie 20. Chiliboy/Strauss 21. Elstadt/Flip 22. Daniel/J.Strauss/CJ Stander/Coetzee
Sure some of these are injured, but had they not been he would not have selected them anyway, except for Bekker
Would Goosen play with his arm in a sling? Sapp I gave you every chance to disavow your prediction that the Poms would beat the Boks. You wouldn't....live with it.
There are several things to consider in selecting the test side. First and foremost this is test rugby, therefore we need players of mental toughness. Secondly we need a fresh injection of youth whilst maintaining a semblance of experience. The fact that Peter failed so dysmally does mean we have to take more risks unfortunately, but even so. My side would be:
15.Joe Pietersen
14.JP Pietersen
13.Juan de Jongh
12.Tim Whitehead (Until Frans is back)
11.Bryan Habana
10.Morne Steyn
09.Fourie Du Preez (c)
08.Ashley Johnson
07.Willem Alberts
06.Heinrich Brussow
05.Juandre Kruger
04.Eben Etzebeth
03.Jannie du Plessis
02.Chiliboy Rallapele
01.Tendai Mtawarira
I would have Chiliboy as vice captain and Strauss on the bench. Enough insurance should things need a rejig mid-game. I like the fact that the backline has some real nous and venom but still able to completely out play the English tactically. A lot of assured players that can be relied upon to do their job well. Joe Pietersen in particular adds a lot of value. He is very strong for his size, very nippy ball in hand but has that tactical boot ala Terblanche/Monty. He is reliable under pressure. With Hougaard on the bench we have some serious firepower that will be significantly applified upon Fans Steyn's return. I'm not as keen on Alberts playing at 7 as I would be with him at lock - his best showing for the Boks has been at lock - but he has been there and done it.
I hope I can comment on this team posted and achieve realistic results - the players I would not select is highlighted:-
15. Lambie
14. Mvovo
13. JP Pietersen/ JJ Engelbrecht
12. Frans/ Jean
11. Habana
10. Jantjies/ Morne
9. Hougaard/ du Preez/ Pienaar
1. Beast / Coenie
2. Bismark/ Chiliboy/ Strauss
3. Jannie/ Malherbe
4. Etzebeth/ Flip
5. Kruger/ Elstadt
6. Brussouw/ Daniel
7. Coetzee/ CJ Stander/ Alberts
8. Spies/ J.Strauss
Let me explain my reasoning on the high-lighted players. First of all the no 13 position. Pietersen was tried out in that position and flopped badly. They then brought in Jordaan and the improvement was massive and the Sharks started to win games. Capice? Unfortunately Engelbrecht is a bench player at present and a wing at that. if not injured my choice would be Taute ahead of either. In the meantime I think the selection would be De Villiers at 13. Morne is a fiasco - whilst he is there the backline will be disfunctional. On this years performances I would play both Lambie and Grant ahead of Morne and Jantjies. Du Preez is a bad taste joke - together with Morne the back line would be neutralized completely. The scrummies should be Hougaard and Pienaar.
Spies - we need players - not show ponies - he will be selected but add to the decorative and disfunctional back line players if Steyn and Du Preez is selected.
Daniel at 6 - never. He played no 8 this whole year and could be better used in that position. Strauss - never internatonal material..
Be it as it may - I expect Meyer to select 11 Bulls players to be in the team of 22 to be announced tonight 7 to 8 in the starting line up.
Now for the real prima doinna on the Board. De Jong at 13 - that lighty is not in any way a reasonable 13. He is way to small for international rugby and has done nothing in this year S15 (not even 1 try). Morne and Du Preez - the players with no ball sence in 10 and 9 - but then he does not understand the term at all and indicate these two as players with that capacity. Ashley Johnson - a perrenial bench player - whose contract with the Cheetahs have not been renewed. That team suggested by him would lose by 30 against the All Blacks and 20 against the Aussies and the POMS.
You do realise that ashley Jonhson is statistically one of the best performers for the Cheetahs? In every game he has played he has been a standout performer. But as we have already discovered, what are facts to you? de Jongh is the best defensive outside centre in South Africa right now, certainly the most complete. He as been magnificent in defence for the Stormers and does very good work ball in hand in spite of that worthless lug inside of him. Morne has the best ball sense of all but one player at 1 - Goosen. Morne rarely ever deals the ball badly and most of what he does has a positive outcome. You clearly are a defiant fool who knows not what thou praat.
Now onto your "assesment"
You'd play pop-gun Grant ahead of the best tactical kicking 10 in the world, and that in a test that will be a forward slugfest? Very thoughtless decision. Particularly as in close tests goal kicking will be a factor. Lambie has failed dysmally, being outclassed by a player that was passed his best nearly seven years ago. And what exactly has Jantjies done? Virtually nothing.
You say Strauss is never internation material, yet we see him as early as 2008 making solid contributions to the Boks. Now at the peak of his powers? Get a clue Mike.
You are making a complete fool of yourself.
Actually Aristo Mike was talking about Blackbeard not Adrian Strauss, when he made that comment....methinks you are often wrong never uncertain.
Mozart - thanks for correcting the prima donna on this one - the bearded Strauss qwaas the one I referred to. He has gone totally deurmekaar on his comments. Steyn the best tqactical kicking flyhalf in th world - "blaas my siel" that really is going totally bananas. Steyn is definitely not a flyhalf at all - he is a goalkicker for the rest he is a bad link player and a neutralizer of the back line play - also a poor tactical kicker. I do think that other countries would not play him because of that.
Johnson - how many times that he started and how many times did he come off the bench as an impact player this year in Super 15. Best performer - if he was he would be in the starting line up. Why is he leaving then end of this season to play overseas?
Lets get to the issue of ball sense again - Aristo. I wrote it elsewhere and will repeat it here, since you "have not read it" It was as follows:-
"What is ball sense??? You apparently heard about the term somewhere but is totally clueless about what it means. The term is older than most people would think and was around as far back as the 1920's. In essence it means that a player knows instinctively what usage of the ball would be of best advantage, of the team, read the game and be instinctively knows where the ball will end up and be in a position to take advantage of that knowledge.
Now lets test your players in dispute on whether they have "ball sense". Years of watching him play and with many intercept tries - top candidate - Jean De Villiers.
Now for the real dispute - the following have no "ball sence": Du Preez plays like an automaton, Steyn - totally aimless and no idea about linking function in back line. Spies - in this respect a complete retard. One exception - Mattfield - be in the back line between the centers - if passing the flyhalf the ball normally will get there and be there to bugger up everything. Oops - I am wrong here as well. the definition above is maybe deficient in one way - it should have a clause of efficient usage as well. So out goes Matffield as well.
Do you understand now what "ball sense" really mean???????" Your comments about Steyn - nobody else would rate Steyn as having "ball sense" - he does not have any - end of story
Um Moz , what part of I know some of these players are injured did you not get?
And yes I stand by us losing to England if Meyer goes conservative
Der, Joe and de Jongh are too small for test rugby, not to mention the fact that de Jongh has done stuff all all S15, so whats the point. How on earth can you leave our best player out in Hougaard, if you are not going to select him at 9 then at least have him on the wing - hell you asked for mental toughness.
Johnson at 8 is a joke, the fat man blows hot and cold and is too stupid for test rugby - there are 5 better options at 8 than him - very poor call.
Chiliboy ahead of Bismark is a laugh, particularly since Chiliboy has gone off the boil in a big way over the past month.
Am with Mike on this one, your side is poor
Morne at 10 will just be sad
Mike in response to you, what nonsense that JP and JJ were flops at 13, rubbish. Both were good there certainly better than the likes of de Jongh. Both are great players, who are versatile and able to play wing and centre. With Taute out, our only options at 13 are JP, JJ and Jordaan. We certainly cant go for old man Jean or little boys de Jongh and Ebersohn. JP brings physicality to the role and the ability to break tackles, he is perfect for the role.
Your take on du Preez is the biggest load of bullshit I have ever read, he is easily one of the best 9's to have ever played the game.
Daniel is far too small for 8 and his speed makes him a perfect 6, get with it.
Strauss has proved for the last 2 seasons he has all the attributes for test rugby and would make a good Bok leader.
Spies is a proven test star respected the world over - case closed
Mike in response to you, what nonsense that JP and JJ were flops at 13, rubbish. Both were good there certainly better than the likes of de Jongh. Both are great players, who are versatile and able to play wing and centre. With Taute out, our only options at 13 are JP, JJ and Jordaan. We certainly cant go for old man Jean or little boys de Jongh and Ebersohn. JP brings physicality to the role and the ability to break tackles, he is perfect for the role.
Your take on du Preez is the biggest load of bullshit I have ever read, he is easily one of the best 9's to have ever played the game.
Daniel is far too small for 8 and his speed makes him a perfect 6, get with it.
Strauss has proved for the last 2 seasons he has all the attributes for test rugby and would make a good Bok leader.
Spies is a proven test star respected the world over - case closed
Saffex
Lets get one point clear on the no 13 issue. Pietersen did not succeed in that position and he was moved by the Sharks to wing and replaced by Jordaan. JJ is a good developing player - but the Bulls used him basically as a bench and impact player. He started off as a wing and I have no dount that he has the potential to play at 13. I agree with you on Taute - but he is unfortunately injured and out of contention. De Jong is NO OPTION AT ALL. He may be a good defender - but he cannot attack at all. The best selection other than De Villiers at this stage is Jordaan - not one of the others.
However, insofar as Aristokrat is concerned - he is a strong believer in 10 man rugby - hence his mania about Du Preez and Steyn. With them around there is no need for attacking players outside of the flyhalf - so maybe that is where he comes in with De Jong as a defender.
Let us disagree on one point and that is Du Preez. I think he was an average to good international scrummie - but he had his negatives - since he is utterly predictable. You prefer and admire him - I prefer and admire Jean De Villiers
By the way - what is Aristokrat's mindless attack on Lambie - is it the fact that Lambie with his outstanding performances at flyhalf is threatening the poor Steyn from a selection perspective. Lambie has massive natural ball sense - Steyn has none.
Nonsense, Plumtree regarded JP as the best 13 in SA a month before he switched him back to wing. JP was moved to centre because the Sharks had no options there. Then Jordaan came along having been so good at 13 in the Vodacom Cup side. The obvious move for Plumtree was to move JP back to his regular position on the wing to accomadate the exciting Jordaan at 13.
Jordaan is now with the Baby Boks, so Plumtree has brought JP back to 13 for todays game. Makes perfect sense. Watch just how good JP is at 13 today against the Lions, he will prove far better than de Jongh for the Stormers.
Ludeke has had to try manage Sadie and JJ at the Bulls, so neither has been able to settle, but the bits I have seen of JJ at 13 look good and I'd much rather have JP or JJ playing 13 for the Boks than an old man like Jean out of position or little squirts like de Jongh and Ebersohn who would just get blown away.
I admire Jean in a big way, he is the best 12 I have ever seen for the Boks, but he is past it now. I dont want washed up players in our Bok side, we need to move on, we need a new generation of players - this excludes the likes of Kirchner, Habana, Jean, Morne, du Preez, Jannie, Schalk and the like.
