The squad player by player...from de Koning

I generally find this commentator a bit Bools-centric in his views, but he makes sense in this analysis:

rugby365 editor Jan de Koning runs the rule over Meyer's selection.

Gio Aplon: Thoroughly deserved. he has always been class and has regained his best form.

Willem Alberts: Stamped his authority on the Currie Cup Final, although some other selections suggested the Final was not factored in.

Bakkies Botha: Good to see John Philip back. He can teach the youngsters a few tricks of the trade.

Marcell Coetzee: May have had a mid-season slump, but was back to his best in the Currie Cup Final and deserves to be there.

Jean de Villiers (captain): First choice for any Bok team. Hope he can stay injury free through to 2015. A class player and a very good leader.

Bismarck du Plessis: Without doubt SA's best hooker and going to be invaluable on tour.

Jannie du Plessis: He may be in need of a rest, but still a quality player. His selection can never be questioned.

Fourie du Preez: The master tactician and the missing link in the Bok team since 2011 - as his games in SA earlier this year showed.

Pieter-Steph du Toit: Young and raw, but oozes potential. Three weeks with Bakkies Botha will do his game the world of good.

JJ Engelbrecht: His game is in need of a fresh injection and maybe he can learn a few things from Jaque Fourie that will see him regain the spark that first secured him a call-up.

Eben Etzebeth: Just imagine him and Bakkies Botha in the same team (not sure who will play at No.5), but you have to pity the opposition.

Jaque Fourie: Another player that will be welcomed back with open arms after a two-year absence. Boks' defence will be rock solid and he will be a great tutor for the young backline players in the side.

Johan Goosen: This could be a big mistake - much like Jake White did with Ashwin Willemse in 2004, by bringing him back too soon. Willemse broke down and was never the same again. This young man oozes talent, but needs to regain his fitness - given that he has played only about 60 minutes since a sixth-month lay-off.

Bryan Habana: Like Jean de Villiers and Jaque Fourie, he is just pure class.

Zane Kirchner: After his shocker in the last Test against New Zealand he can regard himself as very fortunate to still be part of the squad. In fact his form for the last two years screams for him to be axed.

Siya Kolisi: He is growing into a world class player and it would be interesting to see how he copes with the slow pitches of the Northern Hemisphere.

Pat Lambie: Good to see him regain his form at flyhalf for the Sharks. Just hope he is now given an extended run in the No.10 jersey. Playing him at fullback on tour will be a mistake.

Willie le Roux: While the conditions up north may not always suit his style, he should be a starter in the Bok team as he will keep the opposition on their toes.

Francois Louw: He will be on familiar turf and a key member of the Bok team.

Frans Malherbe: Heyneke Meyer clearly rates him, but I am not convinced. Would rather persist with Coenie Oosthuizen's conversion to a No.3 - where he wants to play.

Tendai Mtawarira: He may also be in need of a rest, but has shown good form in recent weeks and his selection can never be questioned.

Siyabonga Ntubeni: This, to me, is the big bolter and makes no sense. Is he really better than Chiliboy Ralepelle (who was part of the squad) and Schalk Brits (a star in the north)? Is he really the future? Good domestic form, but looked ordinary when he faced a real international hooker in a crunch match - the Currie Cup Final. Core skills also not very good.

Coenie Oosthuizen: He is another player who needs to settle down in one position. Shifting from loosehead to tighthead and back is not doing his form any favours.

Ruan Pienaar: He has been good in Northern Hemisphere conditions, so this tour may be where he silences his critics. However, still lucky to still be part of the Bok squad.

JP Pietersen: Good to see him back. With him, Habana, De Villiers and Fourie the Boks will have a quality backline.

Louis Schreuder: The other big bolter. He's been so-so in the Currie Cup all season (still don't know what the hype is about), but obviously Heyneke Meyer sees something in him that I don't. No scrumhalf should ever run/drift sideways and backwards to pass, no matter how your pack struggles.

Jan Serfontein: He obviously has talent, but needs guidance. Can do himself a big favour by spending plenty of time with Jaque Fourie.

Gurthrö Steenkamp: Another player who can regard himself as fortunate to be on tour, given his form in recent matches for his country.

Morné Steyn: His form this year justifies his selection, but this tour may be a good opportunity to see how some of the younger flyhalves cope with the testing conditions they will experience.

Adriaan Strauss: No question that he is a close second to Bismarck fu Plessis and some distance ahead of whomever is third. And in my view it is not Ntubeni.

Flip van der Merwe: Given the talent of the youngsters coming through he may have to improve his game considerably or will be a spectator before too long.

Duane Vermeulen: Pure class and a must for any  Bok team

 Mozart

You are a drivelling idiot if you do not go and follow Alberts minute by minute performance in the CC final and believe the drivel written about how good he was in the final.   If you do not believe what I wrote - go and do your own Morzoscope as you call it - and may find out the truth, namely that what he did amounted to about 5 points out of 10.  But you won't - because you are stupid and do not want to see the truth.   It may just go against what you shouted about.  Same as your attitude about stats - not so.

The following comments on the article:-

Aplon - had a very good semi and a good final - but his defence is highly questionable if the stats for Super 15 is borne in mind.

Alberts - high praise for nothing - was an absolute matchloser at Ellis Park and did very, very little in the CC final if his participation is actually analysed.

Jannie Du Plessis - mildly put - he should take a permanent rest from  test rugby - scrumming questionable - defence non-existent. 

Siya Kolisi - the writer must live in the Saffex dream world - he did squat in the last test, mae one trysaving tackle and nothing in the CC final .  Quota selection this one.

Frans Malherbe - Coenie is no tighthead - he should play at loosehead.  Malherbe is a very strong tighthead scrummer and at this stage already better than Jannie du Plessis.

Morne Steyn - he a shocker at Ellis Park and a non-descript as well as the Super 15 semi-final.  This is a bolter in the writers  own words.

The other remarks are objective and cannot be criticized. 

Mozart

Read what roles Steyn and Alberts actually played in the CC final and I do not need a pill - you need g lasses.    Looking at what Steyn did - I am not surprised at all that he was not in the running at all.  Despite all the write ups and praise singing they were both not really up to standard.

Alberts was a match loser at Ellis Park and the Welsh and French are going to target him as the weak link in the back row.   I watched  the CC final  again and jotted down -

  *   every time Steyn and Alberts touched the ball; and

  *   and every time they tried to tackle players.

Could find no reason why they are praised to high heaven for very average performances.    

Shezza

Sorry - but he did the absolute minimum he could have done in the CC final.  I looked at his game in the final and the following is an exact summary of what he did:-

Steyn in fact made 3 tackles during the whole game -assisted Coetzee with one tackle - missed one tackle - carried the ball twice over short distances - and made two good passes. 

I wrote down particulars on every time he touched a ball and every time he attempted a tackle and the above was an exact summary of what happened during the whole game.   If that represents a good game - heaven only knows how anyone can describe that as a good game.   You are at liberty to look at the game and checked exactly what he did - and if you find anything wrong in the actual performances I listed under a separate thread  I will pay you R500.

It was indeed a kick and chase game - but you would never find evidence of Frans chasing after the ball and even made a mild attempt to do just that.   Others did the chasing - my feeling is he is far to slow to do anything effective in that regard.

It is because a lot of members said that Steyn and Alberts had such a good game that I put the game under the microscope and looked at it carefully to see how come I was so out of zinc - and that is where I found the imagination and prejudice in their favour was shockingly incorrect of all those  who were so complimentary to them.   I am not prejudiced against any player - but I am not afraid to exactly point out where players perform well and where they under-perform.   Most people look at one or two  instances  in games and write how good a player he was and how he dominated others in the game and then write what a wonderful game the player had - not looking at the full game and the full involvement he had in the game.  One thing is for sure - I give credit to players where credit is due - and definitely do not give credit where it is not due.

You mentioned the Twickenham test - here is the ESPN stats on that game reflecting a summary of all activities of Alberts in that game:-

Alberts did score a try - but it was an amazing fluke.   He in fact was in a complete off-side position when there was a dribble kick touching an English player - landing just in front of the tryline and Alberts caught the ball and fell on it.   He did not carry the ball - he did not avoid any tackles, but  he did have extreme luck on his side - if that ball did not touch an English player - he would have been blown up for being off-side.   The rest of his game was dead average.  Three ball carries - making a  total 4 meters in territory gain - beating no defenders - making ten tackles missing 2 and two line out takes.   

To get a balance on the issue for evaluation purposes,  I also looked at his direct opponent (Robshaw) stats and they were as follows:-

But for the fluke try - the latter performed quite a lot better than Alberts.  More carries - better territory gain - beat one defender in the process - more tackles made and I less tackle missed - as well as similar line out number takes.  He did pass the ball 9 times against zero passes by Alberts.

Prejudice should never play a role in match performance evaluation - I try and write what I actually saw - and gets attacked left, right and center by people who see one instance in a game and then equates that instance with the full performance of the player in that game.   Similarly I would not ignore missed tackles and other instances of poor play in any game.      

Give it a rest, DumbMike …

Take the hint bro … you’ve lost all credibility … your continuous whining is tiresome.

No one’s interested in what you have to say.

Now run along …

Oh and please stop cluttering up the board with all this repetitive horseshit.

Thanks!!

ClesanCut

The ones who lose credibility are the one's who made unfounded wild statements.  I analysed Alberts performance in detail and gave exact descriptions of what he did in the CC Final.   Don't make statements - I will pay you R500 if you prove me wrong in the exact match description I gave of every time Alberts touched the ball in the CC final or every attempted tackle he made or missed.   Why don't you take up the challenge - jot down the times I quoted under the relevant thread and point out where I was wrong.

General statements  serve no purpose - do a proper analysis and prove me wrong in what I wrote - that's the way to go.

Cleancut

He has the right to stay in the team if he performs satisfactorily - I grant you that.   Not on prejudiced sentiment.  That "nonsence" was from an exact description as to what Alberts did in the CC final - you have the full right to go watch the game and see whether it is not correct - and my challenge stands - prove me wrong and I will pay you R500.  Every time h touched the ball - and every time he attempted a tackle the time and description of what happened was given.     

He has a sentimental following by some members - but that is based on sentiment and prejudice - not actual performances.   The guys who are horsewhipped are those who see one instance happening on the field of play and then carry on as if that instance constitute the whole story of the game insofar as that player is concerned.

It is indeed disappointing - but Alberts had an average to poor game in the CC.   Please check and the promised R500 will be paid to you if I am wrong.     

Clean cut

Insulting and useless arguments - that remains a weakness.  Accept my challenge and analyse Alberts performance as I did - and don't keep on making an ass of yourself.   The R500 i s waiting for takers - if they can prove me wrong.  I am prepared to put my money where my mouth is - are you?

I will pay you gladly.   I analysed everything that Alberts did in the CC final - given high praise by virtually everyone - and found little ground for the high praise.   Watch the full game again and prove that my posting on Alberts and Steyn is wrong - point by point and the R500 will be paid.

Alberts has his positives and negatives -  he is a usable tight 5 player - but he is too slow to be a real competitor in a faster game where his tackling deficiencies for instance are exposed by faster players like Read. 

Maybe Meyer is expecting him to do better in the slower NH games - and I hope he does - but insofar as I am concerned he has deficiencies and I do not heap undue praise on him.   The best way to go is to see how he performs in the EOYT - looking at all aspects of the game  expected from a loosie - and also at his performances in Super 15 next year.

He will definitely not make any of my fantasy teams though.         

 Pine in Ireland

The issue is not only the number of tackles made - but also the quality of the tackles and especially the result of missed tackles -ie what the impact of that on the outcome of any  game is.   

Alberts tackles are die to his limited mobility is limited to tackles around the fringes and he does not to open field tackles like players like Read, McCaw and Messam does.   Even around the fringe he failed at times - like in th case of the Read one at Ellis Park and twice in the Samoan test.   It is those misses that do impact on outcome of games.

In the CC final he made 3 tackles - assisted in four more, and missed 4 tackles - mostly because of deficient mobility.

My problem is not only with missed tackles - it is also with his limited role in line outs and breakown ball recovery and participation in mauls.  Those functions are also not up to standard as a result of lack of mobility.  The latter remains his main problem  

He can occasionally carry balls in traffic - but the territory gains normally are very limited and always ended in mauls - he cannot and never does carry balls in open field play or link up with the backline in that regard. .

Clean Cut

Am enjoying your banter .

Not the idiot just yet - my problem is I am looking not for the player who does not make mistakes - I am looking overall where I think players can improve on present players.

That is where I differ from Saffex - he dreams about players and then make the mistake of thinking they are better than they actually are.   His chronic list - Jantjies, Hougaard, Francois Steyn, Engelbrecht, etc - is a bad joke.   There are better players than those around.

Being on the conservative side - I am a bit worried about Jacque Fourie though.  I saw him playing many times and he was top quality - even though not a favourite of Mozart.  I only hope he did not go "soft" in the "soft" Japanese environment.   The  expression "soft" was used by Kahui before his departure to Japan as a reason why he is going.  It has happened before and will happen again that players do not maintain their top quality standards when playing there and in France for instance   Lets hope I am wrong in that case.

Lets give an example here I still have doubts.   Fourie Du Preez was magic in the Pumas game - when he came off the bench - but very average in the Ellis Park game - when the pressure was really on.  

When looking at players - I look carefully at performances and it my views are controversial - I would check the match stats - always using those of ESPN - or even the Test Rugby and Foxsport stats.  Even though stats are not always realistic - stats over a series can be an indication of player potential.

Be it as it may - I think that we have better 7's in SA than Alberts  - you think otherwise.   I do think we can have another look at he situation during the EOYT and in Super 15 next year.

And Alberts is still not going to make it in my Fantasy selection.   

Windpomp

Shut your trap -  idiot.

Mike ... I think your relying on certain peoples so called stats (opinionated at times I might add) to paint you a picture of what actually happened and based on that your crucifying certain players ... unfairly.

In trying to present your argument you've ended up missing the point altogether.

There's more to a rugby match than stats. Stats can never give you the entire picture. He may have missed a tackle here that amounted to nothing serious but made a massif hit there and that changed the match altogether. All your reading is that he missed a tackle here and that he made one over there. That's it. Out with the firing squad.

This is a team sport. Not a bunch of individuals running around with separate agendas. It's where a set of different skills are supposedly combined into a multifaceted weapon with one goal ... one purpose.

Yes there are certain players that need to be replaced by better, stronger cogs for a more efficient operation and yes all the players have their short comings. Thing is how do these imperfect players gel ... how do they play together as a unit?? Is there an understanding between them?

Stats will never guide you to perfecting a team.

You've said much about Alberts ... you have your likes and dislikes and so do I which is my right to have. 

Now it's time to move on. Don't you think?

Cleancut

Sure lets move on and look at what happened during the EOYT tour and for me the December- January period cannot be gone fast enough - to let us enthusiasts into Super 15 next year.

No hard feelings at all - and Alberts will still not make my fantasy teams next year.   

OOM I have a PhD minor in quant. It's all a little vague after all these years, but I do know that you shouldn't be let near a"stat". Besides which,  the stuff you produce is raw data......not statistics.....raw data that isn't normalized, with samples that are too small to draw conclusions, from populations that don't compare. Give it up.

Mozart

I am in a benevolent mood today and will ignore any insults.   Despite all our differences on players I have heard about your academic background and career achievements and respect you for those achievements.

The rugby stats from ESPN is not so difficult to interpret that you need a doctorate degree to interpret it.   It contains very basic statistical data and anyone can see with ease how players perform and what they achieved even I with only Stats 2 to my credit.   However, there is one very basic rule to be borne in mind - the figures are not always a reflection of what happened in a given match.   However, if there is a similar trend in matches in  a whole series - it does give an indication of the tendencies and abilities of a given player.   A further issue is that people should not look at stats only - but what happened in fact on the field of play and what the results were of the various activities of a player.   A combination of both will indicate whether a player performed or under-performed.     

Now back to rugby.   You went to considerable lengths to do an evaluation of the performances of JJ Engelbrecht and I believe you called it a Mozorscope.  Unlike you - I had reservations about the performances of Francois Steyn and Willem Alberts and jotted down every time they attempted a tackle - touch and carry/run with the ball, etc - given also the time when it happened  and what was the impact of their play in the CC final.   I was frankly not impressed by what I found at all - could not find the reason for the raving reviews.   Why don't you do the same and let us know your findings?

Windpomp

Shut your trap - idiot.