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The star crossed Proteas

Started by Mozart39 REPLIES2,740 VIEWS· 11 Jun 2017, 16:54
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Jun 2017, 16:54
#1
11 Jun 2017, 16:54#1
From the time that Gibbs carelessly dropped a simple catch way back when, the Proteas have found a way to lose. Today as the slow opening partnership was building, the demons started to gather. Clearly Faf and AB had it on the brain they had to up the tempo. But it was a terrible run attempt......and the Miller/Faf debacle was truly embarrassing .....both players at full stretch trying to make the same crease. The laugh that went up as that flashed on the screen said it all. .. After that there wasn't even a credible attempt to post a score. The big funk. It's hard to watch these guys.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Jun 2017, 17:21
#2
11 Jun 2017, 17:21#2
The problem started with Amla - he was betting at less than 3 runs per over and that was putting pressure on all other batsmen.
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
11 Jun 2017, 17:21
#3
11 Jun 2017, 17:21#3
 Yep, it sure appears that the "Fire Power" referred to prior to the competition has not fired up.
But once again the total failure is accepted by all who care about nothing more that meeting the ANC color requirements in sport.
Pity, but we will just have to get accustomed to the disappointments I guess.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Jun 2017, 18:41
#4
11 Jun 2017, 18:41#4
Rubbish Poofter, when Amla went out his run rate was similar to Quinton, who was supposed to be the guy who scored.quickly while Amla anchored. Man you are thick. .. That said at 70 for no wickets it was a solid platform for Faf, AB and Miller to take over on a very easy wicket. They blew it...not the openers.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
11 Jun 2017, 18:42
#5
11 Jun 2017, 18:42#5
 Best choke ever!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Jun 2017, 21:46
#6
11 Jun 2017, 21:46#6
 Mozart
8Balls BSter  -  Amla got a four and a six before he went out - ending with 35 runs from  54 balls.   That means Amla was betting at less than 3 rpo for most of his time at the crease - at one stage even at less than 2 rpo.   Amla's strike rate was in the end 64,81.   De Kock's strike rate was much higher - it ended up at 73,61.  
If you watch the game you would have seen what was happening all along.    You are clueless - the idea is to make singles regularly - Amla did nothing of the sort.  
Anuway before you may BS comments on this site -chek the facts = you clueless old BSter
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Jun 2017, 23:20
#7
11 Jun 2017, 23:20#7
When Amla went out he had faced 54 balls and scored 34.....at that point Quinton had faced 51 balls and scored 35. . Amla's strike rate 62.96. . Quinton's strike rate 68.62 . Not much higher, almost the same just as I said. If Amla had gotten 3 more runs their strike rates would have been exactly the same. Game, set and match.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Jun 2017, 23:42
#8
11 Jun 2017, 23:42#8
 You are a bloody liar - Quinton was never below Amla or even on par with him before Amla went out.   He was always ahead of Amla in strike rate.   The end result is whartcounts and Amla was the one who managed to score 10 runs in one over that carried him into a higher than 50% strike rate he maintained for the rest of his batting.  
Amla looed very much like a hare in the headlights.   How did you calculate the strike rate dumbo - do you believe Cricinfo is wrong in their calculations BSter?  I  gave the strike rate provided by cricinfo      
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Jun 2017, 00:08
#9
12 Jun 2017, 00:08#9
Read what I wrote again Pervert....and learn.
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
12 Jun 2017, 03:12
#10
12 Jun 2017, 03:12#10
 Those two played under instructions and in hindsight those instructions were hopelessly flawed, with regard to AB's run out, Faf made the call and has taken full responsibility. It was Quinnie's slowest 50 ever.That said it still doesn't explain how they went from 116/1 to being all out for 191 with 4 overs to go.
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
12 Jun 2017, 03:27
#11
12 Jun 2017, 03:27#11
We Choked. India were OUTSTANDING in the field and bowled brilliantly. South Africa sadly once again choked. Simple as that.  
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
12 Jun 2017, 08:05
#12
12 Jun 2017, 08:05#12

One cannot really make excuses for such a feeble attempt at posting a decent and defendable score.


I honestly thought this team, with that batting line up, with Parnell not playing, had the full capacity to win this tournament.


De Kock

Amla

De Villiers

Faf

Miller

Morris

Duminy


Just these guys alone convinced me we had a great shot, especially with a foundation of 116/1.


Boy was I wrong


A total collapse.... of epic proportions


Without a doubt, a choke, no excuses


Well done India, you played phenomenal cricket

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
12 Jun 2017, 08:18
#13
12 Jun 2017, 08:18#13
Loser mentality. Proteas have it in spades. If it had just been the game against Pakistan, then one could simply put it down to an off day, but the problem is more serious than that. There is a mental deficiency in the whole Proteas setup. For starters, get rid of AB as captain. If he can get his act together in general, keep him in the team, but never as captain. Although, I think he is simply not good enough anymore to be in the team either. It was so clear for me to see that they were panicked yesterday, showing a complete lack of leadership.  
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
12 Jun 2017, 09:12
#14
12 Jun 2017, 09:12#14
 
Glad I didn't waste my time watching these losers throw it all away ... again.

In the end ... it's not who did what but rather why didn't ANYONE stand up and rally the side to up their game?

They are an embarrassment to South Africa.




DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
12 Jun 2017, 09:18
#15
12 Jun 2017, 09:18#15
 I'm guessing but I think there's a lack of self belief as well as a lack of belief in the leadership. The strategy to bat safe was flawed, De Kock is a natural free flowing scorer and to ask him to adopt a conservative approach was dumb.It would have been better to give him free rein from the get-go and allow Amla to anchor the innings.I believed Faf was stable, dependable, made for tough situations, I'm obviously mistaken, one run-out was bad enough but two on his call??? No denying it I am shattered.....Geeez it hurts.
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
12 Jun 2017, 09:59
#16
12 Jun 2017, 09:59#16

One win..... in 19 attempts in all ICC competitions, since the inaugural CT was won by SA


What a shocking and dismal stat




 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
12 Jun 2017, 10:30
#17
12 Jun 2017, 10:30#17
 IT all started with the AB run out. If ab had not been run out and had fired it would all have been very different.
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
12 Jun 2017, 10:48
#18
12 Jun 2017, 10:48#18

The problem is Beeno


There is always "that" one incident that most refer to, which led to some other collapse, panic or loss in these compos.


We should have had at least 4 - 6 trophies from any of these previous 18 competitions


There can no longer be excuses, it's a mentality.... not sure why, but it is there.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
12 Jun 2017, 11:06
#19
12 Jun 2017, 11:06#19
 Yes like when the mentality resulted in a 434 run chance to beat oz? It was unfortunate that AB never fired this tour.  That said it has zero to do with AB being a choker.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
12 Jun 2017, 11:20
#20
12 Jun 2017, 11:20#20
 
woulda ... coulda ... shoulda ... BUT DIDN'T!!!


DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
12 Jun 2017, 11:25
#21
12 Jun 2017, 11:25#21

Here's the thing Beeno


At the beginning of that chase, not even the Proteas thought they would win that 438 game, of that I have no doubt.  Their body language said everything when they left the field after the Aussie innings. 


But, they had free reign to "try" and chase it down, (what else could they do, bat out the full 50 overs to get to 300?) and against all odds, they did, winning off that last ball, for what will always be, the greatest ODI of all time.


Maybe that is what they need, or more of it........, free reign to express themselves without the pressure of being dropped or a quota player replacing you, should you fail a few times. 


That is not an excuse, this recent display from them was beyond pathetic, and they deserve to come home early, but we need to look at what and why this is constantly happening on every big stage.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Jun 2017, 11:44
#22
12 Jun 2017, 11:44#22
 Mozart
I know exactly what I wrote and I did not find it necessary to manufacture my own stats to try and prove anything.   A lie remains a lie and is really expected from you - an old w ench who try to manipulate everything.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Jun 2017, 14:30
#23
12 Jun 2017, 14:30#23
Well, once again, let me explode your 'lie' accusation in your ugly face. Here is the ESPN ball by ball: . MATCH NOTES South Africa innings Powerplay 1: Overs 0.1 - 10.0 (Mandatory - 35 runs, 0 wicket) Powerplay 2: Overs 10.1 - 40.0 (Mandatory - 143 runs, 6 wickets) South Africa: 50 runs in 12.5 overs (77 balls), Extras 5 1st Wicket: 50 runs in 77 balls (Q de Kock 29, HM Amla 16, Ex 5) Drinks: South Africa - 76/1 in 17.3 overs (Q de Kock 35) ... Drinks were taken immediately after Amla's dismissal....after 17.3 overs and 105 balls were bowled. Amla's stats say he scored 34 in 54 balls. Now do the sums. 105 minus 54 leaves 51 balls faced by Quinton. And as you can see above he had 35 runs. ... Exactly as I said. de kock had a run rate of 68.62 to Amla's 62.96 at the point when Amla was dismissed. Have the decency to apologize.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 Jun 2017, 15:01
#24
12 Jun 2017, 15:01#24
 Amla doesnt have the bat speed that he used to. His high back lift technique becomes a hindrance when his brain still wants to play square but his hands cant keep up. Those flashing off side shots through cover off of length balls don't bring him the runs that they used to anymore and they are much more risky for him to play these days. Yesterday's dismissal was a perfect example.

One solution for him is to get in the gym and build his arms/shoulders a bit. He wouldn't be the first wristy player to bulk up once they got into their 30s.

He needs to play a lot straighter also. The problem for him is that he has never been a power hitter. Meaning he will now be restricted to scoring mainly singles and doubles down the ground, which becomes very predictable and easy to defend against, and to bowl to.

Amla was one of the best we ever produced. There's no debating that.
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
12 Jun 2017, 15:25
#25
12 Jun 2017, 15:25#25

Mike, you are wrong here


Amla was on 35 off 54 balls when he got dismissed at 17.3 overs, after he had just hit that four, when he went out, for an actual strike rate of 64.81%


At that precise moment when Amla went out, de Kock was on 35 off 51 balls for a strike rate of 68.62.


You cannot say now, that because de Kock played a further 21 balls and ended up on 53 off 72 balls before getting dismissed at 24.2 overs, that he was far superior to Amla because of a now 73.61% strike rate.


From the time that their partnership was broken, the difference is absolutely minimal, and it's a big shame that you rate a 3.81% difference in strike rate to ridicule Amla's contribution.


Whose to say what Alma would have done if he himself had faced those same extra 21 balls that de Kock did.





CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Jun 2017, 17:17
#26
12 Jun 2017, 17:17#26
  DA
Did you watch the game at all?  Amla was scoring at a rate of between 1,9 and 3 rpo for 90% of the time he was batting.    He hit a six and four that took him to a higher strike rate and then went out.   Without those two hits he would have been below  3 rpo.
In the meantime De Kock was battling to maintain a run rate of 4 rpo. 
Instead of keeping the rate going by taking singles it was just over to De Kock to score runs,   Amla was a real problem while he was batting.       
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
12 Jun 2017, 17:57
#27
12 Jun 2017, 17:57#27
Besides making a few bucks on the Chokers it was a big letdown after all the hype that was made by some.
But to go from 116/1 to all out at 191 and still 4 overs left to bat is mind blowing.
Is it lack of confidence, skill, outplayed or just a simple case of not selecting the right horses for the course.
In my opinion, this disaster is summed up by CC's comment.

BO
BokBFClub Pro421 posts
12 Jun 2017, 17:57
#28
12 Jun 2017, 17:57#28
Oh! now we are going to cherry pick which scoring shots we are going to count towards his SR. Pretty pathetic.   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Jun 2017, 19:00
#29
12 Jun 2017, 19:00#29
Yep you have to exclude his 6 and his 4.....it's all part of the balmy war Tokkie is waging on Amla.
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
13 Jun 2017, 08:32
#30
13 Jun 2017, 08:32#30

Really Mike


To be selective with Amla's shots, with what he hit, and when he hit it, is seriously pathetic....


And to correct you again.... he did not hit a 6 and a four, then go out


You asked me if I watched this game.....Did you even watch the game at all?


Amla hit a 6 at 14.1 overs

Amla hit a 4 at 14.5 overs

Amla hit a 4 at 17.3 overs


After a no run, then he went out


Let's also look at their efficiency at the crease then, when they were still batting together until Amla went out.


Amla, 35 in 69 minutes.... equates to 50.72%

de Kock, 35 in 69 minutes.... equates to 50.72%


Then Amla goes out........


de Kock, ends up scoring 53 off 97 minutes..... equates to 54.63%


I know it all depends on who gets the strike, but again, these numbers clearly show that there is a minimal difference between the two batsman........ because de Kock's difference of 3.91% here, is from the extra 28 minutes he spent at the crease without Amla..... facing these extra 21 balls that he did.... after Amla had already gone.


Therefore,  with Amla being gone, it clearly made no difference to de Kock's game as their difference in strike rates before Amla's departure was also just 3.81% difference.


Stop being so pathetic here Mike, at least give the man his due when he deserves it, that's all I ask  


 

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
13 Jun 2017, 11:27
#31
13 Jun 2017, 11:27#31
 At the end of the day there's only one undenying fact.....our openers were slow and tentative, they neve r took it to the Indian attack and subsequently put a mountain of pressure on the incoming batsmen.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Jun 2017, 06:24
#32
14 Jun 2017, 06:24#32
  DA
The problem started with Amla.  the 14 points he scored in his last two overs at the balls.  increased his strike rate from 20 from 51 balls to  34 in 54 balls.   The problem is that De Kock did turn over the batting during the innings - Amla did not.  
When du Plessis turned up the batting started to look better.   De Kock scored 18 runs from 20 balls, 
 
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
14 Jun 2017, 08:11
#33
14 Jun 2017, 08:11#33

Bollocks Mike


The Proteas were 116/1 after 24 overs with exceptional talent coming in right down the order.


The foundation was set, even if it was a bit slow getting there.


Losing our last 8 wickets for about 50 runs.


That is what cost us the game...... not one player's "slow. ish" scoring.


With your logic, you are now going to berate players who hit 4's and 6's to up their strike rate during any game.


Pedantic and pathetic if you ask me....



CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
14 Jun 2017, 09:30
#34
14 Jun 2017, 09:30#34
 
Many a batsmen take a little time to get their eye in and when they do their strike rate goes up ... dramatically. It doesn't take much to catch up.

Don't know about you but I'd rather take a little time getting settled than blaze away and lose my wicket in the first over.

Talk about being petty.



DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
14 Jun 2017, 10:12
#35
14 Jun 2017, 10:12#35
100% CC  
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
14 Jun 2017, 11:22
#36
14 Jun 2017, 11:22#36
Agreed CC and DA. Especially if you are an opener. 
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
14 Jun 2017, 11:29
#37
14 Jun 2017, 11:29#37
 It depends on what you define as "a little time" eg our opening put on 88 runs facing 126 balls before Amla got out, in other words 38 dot balls or 6.2 Overs. That's not slow, that's %$#&% slow, no team can survive that sort of handicap.
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
14 Jun 2017, 13:09
#38
14 Jun 2017, 13:09#38

I understand Denny


I am not saying it was quick, but I am saying it is pedantic and pathetic for Mike to single out, and blame, one batsman for that loss and saying that he put the pressure on all the other batsman because of his slow pace.


Bollocks


How many international sides at this Champions Trophy would not hesitate in taking 116/1 off 24 overs with all those big hitters in their side.


I would think most captains would jump at that opportunity.



DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
14 Jun 2017, 17:34
#39
14 Jun 2017, 17:34#39
It's pretty normal fare for Mike to single out Amla....I've lost count of the many arguments his had with Mozart on the same subject. He kinda puts a vice like grip on someone or something and won't let go....quite stubborn really.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
14 Jun 2017, 19:14
#40
14 Jun 2017, 19:14#40
 Poms crashed out too.
— END OF THREAD —

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