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FORUM / RUGBY /  The state of the Sprinbok team today

The state of the Sprinbok team today

Started by Mozart31 REPLIES346 VIEWS· 19 May 2014, 20:27
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 May 2014, 20:27
#1
19 May 2014, 20:27#1

As a reminder here is our last Bok team against France, when nearly all the overseas players were available. It's also an NH team which might show a little bit of HM's NH strategy for RWC15.

 

There really aren't any obvious improvements in the threequarters. Certainly Fury looked like the weak link in November, but are Jordaan, JJ or de Jongh markedly better. Probably not in the aggregate.

 

At flyhalf there could be arguments for Lambie, Boshoff, Goosen and Fransie. I personally continue to like the Fransie option, but he has been a mixed bag so far. Goosen showed some flickers on Saturday....especially in open field play. The rest are no advance on Morne.

 

In the pack Jannie for Coenie could be the call, but this is another weak position. And the back row could see challe nges to Louw or Alberts....although nobody has made a clear case.

 

The bench is where most changes are likely: Gurthro, Kolisi (were it not for quota considerations) and Vermaak should be gone.

 

Players who could force their way into the mix are Schalk, Victor Brussouw, Hendricks and perhaps de Allende. Not many. Much is said about Victor....but he is the best lineout forward in the world, the best kick off receiver a brilliant offloader and a fine open field tackler. You lose some grunt in the tight/loose but if you have a huge set of loosies....Victor adds balance. For this year he still looks potent, next year is another day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

15FBWillie le Roux14WJP Pietersen13CJaque Fourie12CJean de Villiers (c)11WBryan Habana10FHMorne Steyn9SHRuan Pienaar1PTendai Mtawarira2HBismarck du Plessis3PCoenie Oosthuizen4LEben Etzebeth5LFlip van der Merwe6FFrancois Louw727FWillem Alberts8N8Duane Vermeulen  Replacements16HAdriaan Strauss17PGurthro Steenkamp18PLourens Adriaanse19LBakkies Botha20FPieter-Steph du Toit21RSiya Kolisi22Jano Vermaak23FBPat Lambie
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 May 2014, 21:40
#2
19 May 2014, 21:40#2
Mozart
I always enjoy your posts - and cannot help laughing when I read it - because some comments are so utterly predictable and comical.  
First of all the center story.  Still stuck like a broken needle on the attack-deficient Jaque Fourie = reasonably good defender when players do not run around him like Davies did in the Welsh test.   He was lucky having the equally slow Basteraud to contend with in the  French test - snail against snail - not much of a contest.  In attack he was utterly useless.   Anyway he came back from Japan - has not played for three months - said nothing about any injury when interviewed and now suddenly has an ankle injury.  Must have slipped when trying to run - the poor guy.
Morne - Morne - Morne.   "The rest are no advance on Morne".   What advance are you talking of.   He was found seriously wanting by Stade Francais and should never have been in the Springbok team in any event.   Incidentally the last I saw if Morne playing - Morne came on minute 74 when Stade Francais was way ahead with a potential bonus point win according to the French system,  Morne did his standard  - he made a totally aimless kick and the opposing team scored a try in the final two minutes of the game as a result of that kick.  Gone is the bonus point.  That is Morne and that is why they played him in very small doses this year.   What makes him suitable for the Springbok team - he had the minimum of games time this year.
Victor can force his way in?  That is hardly possible.  Victor cannot force anything anymore - he is to weak to do anything forceful.   He is of  consequence in tight phases of the game in any event.  
I am in sympathy with the idea of Schalk being included - he understands loosie play - but Schalk's record this year leaves me with serious doubts.  He plays two games and then has two games off due to injury - that happens time and again.
Who of the overseas club players will make a difference?   definitely not Kirchner, Morne, Bakkies and that lot.  They are past it.  I would say that the list is limited - Louw, Habana and possibly Du Preez - playing in Japan weakens players all the time and Du Preez had some serious question marks in the CR tests last year - he was insignificant and in some respects below par.    The rest bar perhaps Cockott will be no improvement on the local players.     
The team would improve if the get rid of the passengers and slow paced players and thinkers.   Kick out Fourie, Morne, Pienaar and Alberts and it would already be a vast improvement.                

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 May 2014, 21:47
#3
19 May 2014, 21:47#3
Well fortunately the national coach tends to be more aligned with my views than yours....so let's see your team....I guess it would be:
TauteMvovoDe AllendeJean HabanaLambieReinachBeast BismarckEtzebethStephanLabuschagneBrussouwVermeulen
That's a sweet team of little chaps who run around quite nicely, but would be crushed by the starters you left out. Thankfully HM understands power rugby...Springbok style.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 May 2014, 21:47
#4
19 May 2014, 21:47#4
Apologies
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 May 2014, 21:47
#5
19 May 2014, 21:47#5
Ditto
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 May 2014, 21:47
#6
19 May 2014, 21:47#6
Ditto
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 May 2014, 21:47
#7
19 May 2014, 21:47#7
Ditto
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 May 2014, 21:47
#8
19 May 2014, 21:47#8
Ditto
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
19 May 2014, 22:00
#9
19 May 2014, 22:00#9
that teams good enough for most NH teams, but u would be playing with fire if u went to battle with that two bit mob in the knock out stages of the RWC.

fourie looked fat slow and uncordinated, jj has more attacking nous in his eyelashes, then the modern day fourieous pie eater ever will.

jokes that make everyone but Bok fans laugh,,,
morne stain
jacque fourie
ruaan pienaar
guntro steenkamp
bakkies botha
francois louw

players that can easily be replaced by better current players
JDV
wilhelm alberts
jp pieterson
jano vermark

if the Boks were my number one team, i would be so worried about the direction meyer has been taking the Boks.

but then  again, if the Boks were my number one team, i would prob be use to always being second, nah jk, i think theres a percent or two where the Boks were number 1,,,
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 May 2014, 22:09
#10
19 May 2014, 22:09#10
Haha....JJ has more rugby nous with his 4 tries in 12 tests...than Fury has with his 32 tries in 72 tests? 
That may be the stupidest thing you have ever said Sushi and man you have said a lot of stupid things. I like the eyelashes analogy though.
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
19 May 2014, 22:42
#11
19 May 2014, 22:42#11
@mozter,

"Haha....JJ has more rugby nous with his 4 tries in 12 tests...than Fury has with his 32 tries in 72 tests?"

hence me saying,,, "the modern day fourieous pie eater ever will."

but hey, ultimatley i want what u want, for fourie to grace the No13 jersey especially against the All Blacks, cos it will make our already easy job of winning that much easier,
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 May 2014, 23:06
#12
19 May 2014, 23:06#12
What you chaps are appropriately afeared of  is not JJ trying to run the ball, Ellis Park settled that argument....it's the Boks selecting the toughest pack we can, a kicker that makes his kicks and a hard tackling backline. Get that right and we will deconstruct  the whole AB model.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 May 2014, 23:18
#13
19 May 2014, 23:18#13
 Mozart
The argument is not settled.  That tem that you cooked up is far removed from the team I would pick.  I would not pick Taute at full back.  I would not pick Lambie at flyhalf.  I would definitely not pick Stephan at lock and you left out the tight head.
Then your argument is about the issue about that second Messam try at Ellis Park.   You said that Engelbrecht fouled up.  However, the real foul up was with Morne.  He was told in advance that he must not kick balls away after turnovers - so the robot passed the ball with seconds to go before halftime within his own 22.   The bugger up was Morne's - not anybody elses.    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 May 2014, 23:32
#14
19 May 2014, 23:32#14

Ok so the flyhalf passes the ball to you and you see tacklers in front of you.....what do you do if you have half a brain, get yourself isolated? This is a dumb excuse....sure Morne would have been wise not kicking in retrospect. But you and Sapp forget he passed twice before from similar positions and Habana scored two tries. This time the ball went to a robot who didn't use his brain.

 

But if you want proof as to why we willl never beat the ABs consistently playing wide open rugby....check out who won the 7s.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 May 2014, 23:44
#15
19 May 2014, 23:44#15
Mozart 
Your memory are slipping badly.   Morne was not involved in the Habana tries.  The break in the one case was made by Louw - in the other case by Vermeulen.   
The robot was Morne and the cover you try to make is idiotic.  He was clear and had ample opportunity to kick.  
Nobody wants to consistently play wide open rugby - but anybody who wants to see the Springboks only playing 10 men rugby is nuts.  Variation is required - but to have that variation you have to have a thinking flyhalf - not a Steyn robot. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 May 2014, 23:57
#16
19 May 2014, 23:57#16
 Wrong again you stupid, stupid man. All three moves started from almost exactly the same point on field with Morne making the choice to run....in one instance he skip passed to Vermeulen who made the break.....next time to Louw who made a brilliant round the back pass....the third time to JDV, who passed to JJ. JJ unlike  the loosies didn't try to link he tried to beat tackles and run through two ABs. He failed, never held his feet and got isolated.
Morne gets zero blame for that.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 May 2014, 00:09
#17
20 May 2014, 00:09#17
 Morne gets all the blame for that - ask Naas Botha about that one.  And the passes to Vermeulen and Louw did not come from Morne - it came from Du Preez.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 May 2014, 00:10
#18
20 May 2014, 00:10#18
 Morne gets all the blame for that - ask Naas Botha about that one.  And the passes to Vermeulen and Louw did not come from Morne - it came from Du Preez.
By the way both Habana tries orig inated from the area between the 22 and the half way line - not from inside the 22.   
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
20 May 2014, 00:12
#19
20 May 2014, 00:12#19

 My Springbok squad for the first 2 tests is:

 

15. Willie le Roux

14. JP Pietersen

13. Jaque Fourie

12. Jean de Villiers

11. B Habana

10. J. Goosen

9. F. du Preez

8. D. Vermeulen

7. Schalk Burger

6. H. Brussow

5. Bakkies Botha

4. E. Etzebeth

3. Marcel vd Merwe

2. Bismarck

1. Beast Mtawarira

Bench:

Coenie (loosehead), Strauss, Jannie du Plessis , Flip vd Merwe, Francois Louw, Frans Steyn, De Jongh, P Lambie 

BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
20 May 2014, 00:23
#20
20 May 2014, 00:23#20

I said the first 2 tests because that will tell us if Goosen is good enough or whether we must fall back to Morne Steyn.

 

 2014 Springbok Fixtures:

Castle Lager Incoming Series
7 June: Springboks v World XV (Venue TBC, Cape Town)
14 June: Springboks v Wales (Growthpoint Kings Park, Durban)
21 June: Springboks v Wales (Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit)
28 June: Springboks v Scotland (Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Port Elizabeth)

Castle Lager Rugby Championship
16 August: Springboks v Argentina (Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria)
23 August: Argentina v Springboks (Venue TBC)
6 September: Australia v Springboks (Patersons Stadium, Perth)
13 September: New Zealand v Springboks (Westpac Stadium, Wellington)
27 September: Springboks v Australia (DHL Newlands, Cape Town)
4 October: Springboks v New Zealand (Ellis Park, Johannesburg)

Castle Lager Outgoing Tour
8 November: Ireland v Springboks (AVIVA Stadium, Dublin)
15 November: England v Springboks (Twickenham, London)
22 November: Italy v Springboks (Venue TBC)
29 November: Wales v Springboks (Millennium Stadium, Cardiff)

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 May 2014, 00:23
#21
20 May 2014, 00:23#21
Blikkes
Sorry = but Fiourie is not available (thank goodness).  Bakkies Botha???????  Lambie is apparently not available either  for the June tests.   
Steyn and De Jongh would defensively be a sieve if they play at center.  They have the worst tackle record in Super 15 - I shiver to think what it would be in tests.  
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
20 May 2014, 00:55
#22
20 May 2014, 00:55#22
Awesome back row Blikkies.



MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 May 2014, 01:00
#23
20 May 2014, 01:00#23
Yes I like that one too....basically our RWC11 back row with Vermuelen in for the poser Spies.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 May 2014, 01:07
#24
20 May 2014, 01:07#24
 Blikkies
I have no real problem about the back row - but I think Burger is injury prone - he has been out of a number of games this year with injuries and takes time to recover.   A bit worried about that.    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 May 2014, 01:08
#25
20 May 2014, 01:08#25

Clevermike, all banter aside mate, you lack of honesty is really getting old. It wastes time and confuses simple things.

 

I say to you that while you are blaming Morne for the half time try because he passed....he had done so twice before with Bok tries to Habana. You then say Morne never passed to Vermeulen or in the move where Louw got the ball. So look at this highlight reel:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iYwu5ujOF4

 

Go to minute 3.30 and you will see both tries. In both cases Morne makes the pass that gets the runners away. The NZ commentators refer to Du Preez digging the ball out which he does and then passes to Morne....they also confuse Alberts and Louw.

 

But the case is crystal clear. Morne passes 3 times from around the 22 metre line ( just inside in the JJ case) Twice the ball is carried by our loosies...Habana scores. Once it is carried by JJ....NZ scores.

 

But what the blue blazes is wrong with you man....I don't recall you being so dishonest on other Boards.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 May 2014, 01:41
#26
20 May 2014, 01:41#26
Spot on Sas.......JJ is twice the 13 Fourie is now.......and that side that played against France would get slaughtered by Oz and NZ.
In the backs........Jean, Fourie, Morne and Pienaar have to go.......Serfontein/Frans, JJ, Goosen and Hougaard are far better options........with only old man Jean being able to challenge. I'd take it a step further and say de Allende should play ahead of Habana......so in effect I would change most the backline......to a younger fresher look with zip, instead of a bunch of washed up hasbeens.

In the forwards.....the only tightforward change that needs to be made is Lood or Jacques du Plessis for Flip........Flip is good, but these youngsters are better.

Louw is no match for Brussouw......easy pick there.

Of the bench, Steenkamp, Adriaanse, Bakkies and Vermaak must go.......there are far better options in Nkanyane, Kitshoff, Malherbe, Marcel v/d Merwe, Willemse, Lood, du Plessis, de Klerk, Reinach, Groom.........

That test side against France sold us short in a big big way, especially the backline and bench
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 May 2014, 01:56
#27
20 May 2014, 01:56#27
Yep but we won the test in spite of you and Mike predicting we wouldn't. Galling isn't it? 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 May 2014, 02:12
#28
20 May 2014, 02:12#28
The French are not Oz and NZ.......that Boks side against these two would get hammered. The French are falling well short themselves.......geez Ireland won the 6 Nations and lets face it, Ireland is littered with many old farts past their prime.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 May 2014, 06:40
#29
20 May 2014, 06:40#29
Pretty much the same side, probably weaker with players like Juandre Kruger, hammered oz twice last year. So you have got tied up in your own little world again. We have a damn good core Bok team with a few opportunities to upgrade. One has already been achieved by dropping Kirchner...a big former favorite of yours ..and of hasBeen's.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 May 2014, 11:33
#30
20 May 2014, 11:33#30
 Mozart
We cannot stick with under-par players and hope to make progress.  Stade Francais would NOT start with Steyn and the question is why?   Is it not that they gave found out that he cannot play a varied game and that he cannot read games and decide to vary play accordingly?
Morne is a bench player for his club - what makes him indispensable for the Springbok team?   If you can explain away that one we will understand where you come from in this case.  
And trying to justify Morne's foul up at Ellis Park the way you did is really a joke.  He did bugger up badly and people like Naas pointed it out clearly.   He cannot read games and is clueless - end of story.          
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 May 2014, 16:40
#31
20 May 2014, 16:40#31

Wrong Moz, there was no Kruger in the side, Flip and Eben played.......plus they had JJ at 13, instead of useless Fourie!

 

 

But that's not the point, the point is more that if that side played it would get thumped by Oz today.

 

 

Yes we do have a core of good Boks like Willie, Habana, JP, Jean, Frans, Lambie, Hougaard, Beast, Jannie, Bismark, Strauss, Etzebeth, Alberts, Brussouw and Vermeulen.......the rest should be made up of our talented youngsters, not a bunch of washed up hasbeens like Fourie, Morne, du Preez, Pienaar, Streenkamp, Bakkies, Matfield and Louw..........you would never see the AB's do this......and for good reason.......therein lies the difference between the SA and the Kiwi model

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 May 2014, 18:07
#32
20 May 2014, 18:07#32
Mike you bloody liar....you said Morne never made passes in the Habana try movements. Then when proven wrong you go back to your hackneyed attacks on the man.....but you don't admit your mistake. What's wrong with you....do you honestly think your M.O. is fooling anybody.
— END OF THREAD —

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