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FORUM / RUGBY /  The stats that underline just how limited our WC game was:

The stats that underline just how limited our WC game was:

Started by Mozart9 REPLIES613 VIEWS· 23 Jan 2020, 04:51
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Jan 2020, 04:51
#1
23 Jan 2020, 04:51#1

The Boks played more games than all teams but England. They dominated possession in most games so they should have piled up the offloads. Here are the top offloaders:



Offloads made – player

1 Leone Nakarawa (Fiji) – 12

2 Max Medard (France) – 7

3 AJ MacGinty (USA) – 6

4 Jake Polledri (Italy) – 6

5 Keith Earls (Ireland) – 6

6 Gela Aprasidze (Georgia) – 6

7 Elliot Daly (England) – 6

8 Finn Russell (Scotland) – 6

9 Siale Piutau (Tonga) – 6

10 Virimi Vakatawa (France) – 5


And our defence was dominant, so we should have piled up the turnovers. Here are the players making the most turnovers:


Turnovers won – player

1 Maro Itoje (England) – 7

2 Santiago Arata (Uruguay) – 6

3 Vladimir Ostroushko (Russia) – 5

4 Jamie Ritchie (Scotland) – 5

5 Kazuki Himeno (Japan) – 5


And surely with all that possession the Boks would have done well in the metres gained  stakes. Here are the metres per player:


Metres made – player

1 Semi Radradra (Fiji) – 400

2 Kotaro Matsushima (Japan) – 350

3 Marika Koroibete (Australia) – 314

4 Alapati Leiua (Samoa) – 266

5 Gareth Davies (Wales) –  263

...............


What does all this mean? Well turnovers and offloads are pretty much the metrics that define the modern game.  The absence of Boks in these and other individual stat categories points to just how limited the Erasmus game plan was. Fortunately Francois Louw who had limited time, managed to make the one crucial Semi final winning turnover.


We went back to old school rugby.....and made it work. Which raises the question, was the quest for the expansive game all just a bad idea. Or will neanderthall rugby  trip us up as Lady Luck balances the scales.


An interesting question to  explore as time goes by.









CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jan 2020, 08:22
#2
23 Jan 2020, 08:22#2

Despite Mozart's selected stats the Springboks won the WC and were considered the team of the year,   So really what is this type of comment worth?  Zero at all.   

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Jan 2020, 10:04
#3
23 Jan 2020, 10:04#3
Those stats don’t indicate a limited game, reality is we boxed clever - we kept it limited in the first half against the Japs then took them to the cleaners, we kept it limited against Wales and then took it all out against England in the final thrashing them in the process It was poetry in motion - brilliantly scripted by Rassie
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jan 2020, 10:19
#4
23 Jan 2020, 10:19#4

Dave 

You must obviously realize Mozart's  anti-Erasmus campaign is continuing - not as blatant as it used to be -  but now all kind of deductions are used by him to belittle Erasmus and the team, 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Jan 2020, 10:23
#5
23 Jan 2020, 10:23#5
Rassie is by far the best coach we have had since Kitch
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Jan 2020, 18:09
#6
23 Jan 2020, 18:09#6
Nope....White was far more innovative. He invented the defence that Nienaber copied to win Rassie his world cup. Except for the ABs Rassie never faced a team that committed on the day. Luckiest coach including Kitch.
Rassie did what I have been calling for for years on this Board, without much support. He took us back to a tight, defence oriented physical game.....with break out attacks  by   agile backs like Kolbe. Another cause I championed.
If we play this game plan properly we only have to execute. And there I have to give Rassie, Proudfoot and Nienaber credit. We executed very well.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Jan 2020, 19:07
#7
23 Jan 2020, 19:07#7
Crap White was nowhere near in the league of Rassie, the likes of Mallett were better than Jake. Jake was saved by Eddie Jones and that’s a fact Rassie has a far more astute rugby brain than Jake it’s not even close
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jan 2020, 19:50
#8
23 Jan 2020, 19:50#8

How about tries scored and tries given away as a basis for comparison with other teams,   

White was a good enough coach - but not an outstanding one.   He had serious limitations, which he tried to overcome by bringing in Eddie Jones,   If you compare the two WC's the fact s that SA lost the game against the All Blacks and for the rest won games  relatively easily,   

Compare the situation as follows and you will get the message:-

2007 

In 2007 the pool - SA played in comprises of England, Samoa, Tonga and USA

The England test showed some really good play with the backline used well enough,   The Samoa and USA test was strong wins against poor opposition,   The Tonga match was deficient and came very near to a loss against weak opposition.      

Come along the quarterfinal against Fiji - and the Springboks struggled for a long time before beating them.

Against Argentina in the semi the Springboks played well and won comfortably

In the final it as touch and go against a geriatric England team.   Any innovative play went out of the window and if that missed tackle of Steyn resulted in a try the Springboks could have lost the game.

2019  

While White had four years to build up a team -  Erasmus had 15 months,  Coming into the WC the 2007 team was ranked no 2 in the World - the 2019 team came in at a no 5 ranking.

The loss against the AB's was a setback.   However, how did the SA team do in the Tri-Nations in 2007 against New Zealand?  They lost by 33 -  6.  Not a vey innovative performance.   The 2019 team played 4 tests against the All Blacks.   They lost two by 2 and 13 points respectively - they won 1 and drew one.  Would the 2019 Springboks have lost by 27 points against the AB's - not on your life.  

There were no dubious  games against of the Springboks in the o ther round robin games and quarterfinal in 2019.   The Springboks came up against the Welsh - whom the previous week became he number one team in the world,  They beat them by a narrow margin but also convincingly.   They never was behind in points in the game.  

In the final they beat England easily by a massive margin and by scoring tries as well - something which never happened in 2007.

The 2019 team scored more tries and gave away less tries than the 2007 Springboks did.  

Insofar as innovative play is concerned there were signs of it in 2007 in some games and nothing in others,  In  the 2019 series there were no  games where innovative play  went oui of the window.

My contention is that  White was a good coach - but really not an innovative one. Not even with the assistance of Eddie Jones did he reach the innovative target,   Erasmus developed a team that reach great heights by playing innovative rugby.   If that was not the case they would not have gone further than the witless performances of the  2015 team,  

By the way the Springboks would not even came close if they followed the game plan you supported for years - namely the kick and chase game - the non-use of backline play in attacking and usage of backline players for defense only, 

Points out of 10 -

Erasmus  8,5

White      7                              

  

                        

SE
SebPro2,680 posts
23 Jan 2020, 20:20
#9
23 Jan 2020, 20:20#9

Nice post Moz...interesting stats. Rugby is a team game though,,,give me 15 simply good players that are united and play against a slightly off team loaded with stars and I will back the united co-ordinated any day. Yes well done to the Boks but the NZ'ers are still with the averages the best team in the world ...all teams misfire now and again...some teams can take pressure and recover...that's NZ...the acid test is getting tougher...there a few new kids in town by the way. Rugby is getting far more open in opposition (not refering to play style) t hese days which is good. Jake White is an effective coach in a different way to Rassie...both are good when they get the plan right...compare apples with apples not with pears.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
24 Jan 2020, 06:15
#10
24 Jan 2020, 06:15#10

That's individual stats...valid to illustrate the point, but I wonder how the team stats would look like...and we did in fact play a game more than the Poms.  Their pool match vs France was canceled...and you left out the most important stat of all.

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