The Stormers - Chiefs game

I think it would be a very intersting topic for discussion this week - especially also for the members from New Zealand and Australia.   So let me as a completely neutral person in this case  kick off and start the game.

As a starting point I have to say that I was extremely impressed by the Chiefs in their Round 2 and 3 matches,   The results speak for themselves    I was not at all impressed by the Stormers - they were outright poor against the Bulls - who will be getting a walloping from the Blues on Sunday - but that is a different item and I would not start a thread on that one - since I will be accused of high treasn.   So let us get back to the Stormers - Chiefs game.

THE CHIEFS

Positives

Probably their strongest point is their ball skills  and their ability to move around the field and obviously to score tries as they did in their previous matches.  

I think one of their major weapons is Ascombe as full back - any aimless kicks  would create space for him could be self-destructive.   Despite his two average performances thus far - Cruden is a major factor in their backline.  

Amongst their forwards there are really four stand-out players, namely Afeaki, Retallick,  Nessam and Cane. 

Negatives

Like the case of the Cheetahs - jet lag is not going to be of any help to them - they are going to feel the effects and there can be no argument on that score.

Like any team there are some weaknesses and those are in this case especially amongst their forwards.   The forwards did not impress against the Cheetahs in the first half - but really got the better of the Cheetahs in the second half.   Would the forwards get the better against the much stronger Stormers forward pack anytime during the game - I would not bet on that one.   Despite the high opinion of his abilities I am not sure whether Retallick will really be successful in line-out play.   Retallick is more  a Matffield type of lock - not so much a solid type of lock.   Insofar as rolling mauls are concerned - I think it will be a major problem for the Chiefs.

Insofar as their backline is concerned the jury is out on whether Williams is really a number 13 center.   He looked very good against the Highlanders - but I suspected it really was more due to poor defence than anything else.   He was very average against the Cheetahs and I suspect that the extremely tight defence of the Stormers may neutralize him.

THE STORMERS

Negatives

The whole Stormers backline situation has been extremely poor in the matches played thus far.  It started off by the dismal performance of Jantjies in the first game against the Bulls and only marginally better game against the Sharks,   If Jantjies is going to be the pivot of the Stormers backline - they are going to lose the game before the start.   Question is - will Jantjies be in the picture - at this stage we do not know.   Also unsure is the center combination.   If it is the De Villiers - De Jongh center pairing they will never produce any positive rugby and we will be back to the dreaded dead backline syndrome that bedevilled the game of the Stormers last year.   

Anyway - irrespective of selections - the Stormers backline is not going to be  a factor in attacking backline play

Positives   

It is their first home game this year and the Stormers is a very hard nut to crack at Newlands.

The Stormers will have the ascendency in forward play and unlike the case of the Cheetahs it is not going to vansish in the second half.   If the Chiefs allows them to be drawn into the tighter phases of play - they are going to suffer badly.   

SUMMARY

Although I think that the Chiefs will win - I think the result could be close and the outcome to an extent uncertain.   

Now lets get objective comments on this one.  

 CM - agree for the most part. Stormers should have edge in forwards, Chiefs in the backline. If Grant, Taute and Dejong all start then Stormers chances improve as Dejong and Grant are well versed in the Stormers defensive structures and Taute as a much bigger fullback will prevent the turnovers the AB's thrive on when they isolate a ball carrier.

You failed to mention the Stormers psyche which I think should give them the edge. They have a bye week next week and they know that this is a must-win game so I think it will all be put on the line. To me the game will hinge on how well they are mentally prepared and manage the pressure and the importance of the game - last year they seemed overcome by the significance of the moment in the semi-finals and were beaten by a good Sharks team that took full advantage

Bottom line is this: if stormers score tries they can win. If they don't I think chiefs will on average run in 3tries per game. I think the jantzies experiment (if you can call it that) is not working at should be left on the bench as an  impact player if that he does remind me of a young quade with his willingness to try things but don't think he is as talented. Peter grant is a classy 10 who seems to bring composure to the rather unexciting (exception aplon and habana) stormers back line. By the way had aplon held that kick from jantzies perhaps you'd all have different opinion of him....? To reiterate stormers need tries or will go down to the chiefs.

Fair comment Redsman yet I get taken to task or not admitting the better side won. Bwahahhaha

I am a bit surprised this Stormers pack is rated so highly. We are after all misisng the likes of Liebenberg, Etzebeth and Schalk. This factor gives the Chiefies a chance. The other is if Grant plays how match sharp for Super 15 will he be.

Also who will ou Allistair pick. I would start with the bigger backs like Taute and Van der Heever (Both around 100kg) and mow them down hard.

 Grant will be fine Beeno. He has done it many seasons before so he knows what to expect. Besides, Jantjies has never been super 15 match sharp. He is not even Currie Cup or Vodacom cup match sharp ;-)

Stormers are never gona mow the Chiefs down. Taute and Van Den Heever are hardly those types of players. What Stormers need is a combination of the Chiefs tiring, the CPT crowd getting behind their boys in a big way and Stormers need to control the match. You need to make it a "boring" match and squeeze the Chiefs until they wear down..Stormers are never gona beat the Chiefs at their own game so Redsman, tries wont matter here. Stormers need to make this a tight game and be in the Chiefs face on defence. They need to play last years tactics now!

It would be a mistake if the Stormers should bank on the Chiefs having jet-lag, and you cannot compare the jet-lag that they would experience to the jet-lag that the Cheetahs sufferred either. The Cheetahs travelled "back in time" while the Chiefs travelled "forward in time". Their is a big difference. In fact. Remember what happened last year in the semi-final, when everybody expected the Sharks to be down and out? They overcome the jet-lag when they traveled to Aus against the Reds, and then they did not have that much of an issue when they went back to SA. It was when they had to travel "back in time" for the second time in three weeks that the crap hit the fan.

To use the absence of a few players is no excuse. Last year the Stormers were "for ever on the back foot" because of injuries to Schalk, etc as well.

Is the Stormers still such a hard nut to crack at Newlands? Maybe we should ask the Sharks that.

 Me from the EC will have my hopes for this game on the Stormers and although a few goodplayers are still on the recovery path the Stormers have some positives.  They have played some good sides in the last two games and were unlucky not have more points on the scorecard, nê.  So in this game they have the Newlands people welcoming them on hometurf which always helps to lift the spirit but the selections have to be the right ones otherwise they will suffer too much.  For me the heart says Stormers but the mind says the Chiefs will beat them because of selections and the Stormers do not attack as a team but individuals play their own game like Bekker in the backline all the time.. It only works close to the tryline because he big and strong but not in the middle when he hangs there.

Nero

Thans for your comments.  I did go onto the website on the wbsite issue and you are indeed correct insofar as the east to west travel issue is concerrned.  The website indicated that the efefects of jet lag is less severe in such a case tham if travelling from east to west.  - but it is still a factor - especially in view of the number of time zones travelled.   It is not noticeable if for instance the time difference is 2 hours - but increase as to the number of hours difference and I believe a 12 hour diffrence do have a significant impact. 

The impact will be felt as to when the team arrives in SA.   In the case of the Sharks they got back to SA on the Sunday and the jet lag affect would have warn off by the Wednesday.   By Thursday the adjustment would have been complete.    In the other direction the difference would be five or six  days to wear off.   That is why in the second half of the Reds - Sharks game last year the Sharks did struggle and is also why the Cheetahs go it in the neck in the second half.

It is not known when the Chiefs team will arrive in SA or whether they have already arrived.   Since New Zealand is a further 2 hours eastwards from Australia and the flight is likely to take at least 24 hours - the effect is going to be felt on Saturday if they only arrive today or tomorrow.

Grant is a solid defender and a must at 10. His accurate boot opens the way for the likes of Taute to come in at 15.

I’m not so sure that I agree with a dominant Stormers pack. Their set piece has not impressed. Etzebeth was sorely missed these last two matches. They will have to take control of this aspect if they want to stand any chance.

Personally I think the Chiefs will dominate the tight loose as well as the breakdown … this will open the game up a tad enabling them to loose their awesome backline upon the ridged Stormers.

It’s gonna make for an interesting tussel … potent attackers vs structured boring defenders.   

Masaga is a danger man. A powerful runner … not easily taken to ground. He had his first start last weekend and I’m expecting him to have a cracker this weekend. Anscombe is also one to watch.

We can also expect Cruden to put up an improved performance. He's finding his rhythm quickly.

I do not think jetlag will be a factor … especially at sea level. The Chiefs could not have asked for a better start to their South African tour. Playing against the Stormers who have lost two on the trot gives them a great opportunity to take their third scalp this season. .      

Chiefs by 6.

The Chiefs are a better side this year than last year, they have further improved their rucking at the breakdown by attacking the breakdown in numbers. They're a very physical side and have great skills with a huge appetite to run the ball. To be brutally honest the Stormers are not in the race and they'd be adding to their misery by playing Hospital Pass Jantjies. The Stormers need to score tries.....it's a bad time not to know how.

Capone

I am not at all sure that the forwards of the Chiefs are that strong.   They in fact struggled and in some respects showed up badly in the match against the Cheetahs in the first half.   That is why they gave away the penalties that Goosen missed three of.   The Cheetahs have good forwards - but are they really on par with those of the Stormers - I doubt it very much.  

Capone

I am not at all sure that the forwards of the Chiefs are that strong.   They in fact struggled and in some respects showed up badly in the match against the Cheetahs in the first half.   That is why they gave away the penalties that Goosen missed three of.   The Cheetahs have good forwards - but are they really on par with those of the Stormers - I doubt it very much.  

I think the Chiefs are going to make the Hapless Stompies their blushing prison-brides this weekend.

If I'm right then the loud-mouthed Stompie Blowhards are going to have a lot of egg dribbling down their faces with their crap and hopelessly overrated team on a pathetic 1 point from 3 games.

LMAO! Go Chiefs!

RooiAAAS you have a sickness.

Oh right . . . the pathological liar with the emotional maturity of a 3 year old who lives in his own version of Neverland and dreams of ethnic cleansing on a biblical scale thinks I have a sickness because I'm supporting the Chiefs to beat the Stompies?

You couldn't actually make this up!

@mikey,

"I am not at all sure that the forwards of the Chiefs are that strong.   They in fact struggled and in some respects showed up badly in the match against the Cheetahs in the first half.   That is why they gave away the penalties that Goosen missed three of.   The Cheetahs have good forwards - but are they really on par with those of the Stormers - I doubt it very much.”

i disagree with this comment. the pnealties that the cheifs gave away had nothing to do with the chiefs forwards not being storng or the cheetahs forwards being good, they were all individual based errors by players who should have known better.

-the first penatly that was when fritz lee was penalised for coming in on the side, when in fact he should have been penalised ofr not rolling away. goosen missies his goal kick atempt

-the 2nd penalty was cheifs halfback agustine pulu not rolling away. goosen converts.

-3rd penlaty was pulu again not rolling away after a tackle, goosen misses.

-4th penalty was when leilala masaga vreaks tackles and the line but gets isolated and piunged for holding. gossen missed that kick too.

IMO none of those penalties indicate any the sterngth of either the chiefs or the cheetahs forwards.

Go Chiefs say ou rooitwit but he is not supporting the Chiefs!    

Hey rooitwit I can recommend a book to you, its really briliant - God Undertaker by John Lennox. Lennox will be in Cape Town in March and will be at UCT and giving the Vice Chancellorrs Open lecture. Tried to go but it is full. Hear they are looking for a bigger venue.

Rooitwit the book takes some mental faculty to read so dont rush out to buy it.

RooiAAAS, as Dr Ikey said, you have a sickness deep inside. However, seeing as you like quotes from Camus, even if he never penned all of them........here's a real one for you to ponder:

" The need to be right is the sign of a vulgar mind"

all in all i still rate the stomrers, they have only played two games and while they were kak in both, its foolish to underestimate them.

based on their games so far IMO the chiefs forwards has performed a million times better then the stormers forwards and i cant see this changing one bit.

the cheifs loose forwards have also been exceptional, especially sam cane, but vermeulen last week for me was really soild.

back line, no questions about it, the chiefs have got it over the stormers and then some. stormers have chnaged their backline compared to the team that played most of the time last year, but the chiefs have chnaged theres even more,,,
-tim nani williams was playing his 2nd game ever at 13.
bundee aki was making his debut in super rugby.
garteh anscombe was playing his 2nd game ever at fullback.
despite such heavy disruptions, they still managed to produce one of the best attacking displays in their first tow games of rugby.

IMO its not a matter of who will win, but how much the cheifs will win by.
if the stormers rise to the occassion, cheifs by 10pts. if the stormers play like they did in their first two games, chiefs by 20pts.

The Chiefs must be strong favourites.

For the Stormers to win it is going to take a massive effort from the forwards for 80 minutes. Otherwise it will be what happened to the Cheetas. If the Chiefs forwards get close to 50% of possesion in the 2nd half, their backs will just pass the ball from side to side until the defence opens up and score tries.

The only positive aspect is the Cheetas forwards were able to dominate the Chiefs and if not for Goosens once reliable boot gone of the 2013 radar, the Cheetas would have been winning in the first half.

saying the cheetahs domianted the cheifs is the mostn absurd comment here based only on the fact that the cheetahs are a south african team.

how exactly were the chiefs dominated??? ive wtahced the game 5 times already and not once did i se any evidence of this so called domination. all i saw was the cheetahs make a real fist of it in the first half and at best gain parity. then in the last 20mins i saw the cheetah forwards get raped.

i can go through play by play and show u exactly that the chiefs were their own worst enemy and not because of what the cheetahs did either, or maybe i should join the band wagon and say things without actually providing ONE shred of evidence to prove other wise, it dose save a lot of time.

"The need to be right is the sign of a vulgar mind"

Wehe! Says the sad and pathetic loser who lies and makes things up in an attempt to appear right all the time.

Spot the irony!

Oh sure coming from the prick who lied about his own identity that has a lot of sting!

So, have you two decided which one is the pot and which one is the kettle?

nero, have you decided if you're the train or the tunnel?

 Stormers are screwed. Unchanged side named.

The Stormers are going to lose this one by a massive margin - I would say 20+ points.

They were saved from humiliation last week because Francois Steyn decided that he is the only backline player on the field and refused to allow the Sharks backline to operate.   Messam and Cane are going to have a field day attacking in the channel and running over Jantjies.  What a bloody fool the Stormers has as a coach? 

word round the cheifs campfire is that messam will be starting on the bench for the stormers game.

big mistake IMO, if they were to bench anyon it should have been fritz lee as i really believe 6 t latimer, 7 s cane, 8 l messam is the best loose forward combination in all of spXV.


i can only imagine the chiefs have the bigger SA picture in mind as to why they would start messam on the bench, but they should still realise that the stormers are a big threat and its selections like these which makes setting up an ambush newlands easier.

@ suske dreaming if you think thats the best backrow in S15 - maybe of kiwi teams but think you'll find brumbies backrow will be the one to beat and young reds back row pretty good too.

I would say maybe one of the better back rows...

Anyway Chiefs should win - if they dont prbably says a lot about the back-to-back chances...