The Super rugby sides we could have had

"Saffex

Hall Of Fame

17716 posts

Jan 16, 2020, 00:38

If none of our current players had left our shores or deflected to other countries [... for greener pastures, exactly like I did, years ago.....] these are the sides we could have had."

Fixed. 

Unfortunately we will never be as great as in the past ( last RWC is probably the last)...from now on we will be only a nursery of good young players for other countries, clubs and franchises...it has already started.

SA rugby like business will deteriorate and eventually collapse, I don't like saying it but it's true.

Rugby is business and business must be funded but when funds dry up it's obviously not sustainable.

Most of the money in SA is made from looting and unfortunately the limited few real innovative entrepreneurs. Mining and resources also will become state owned and controlled and looted until it collapses. It is Custers last stand. We really did try but the odds are against us. We are not an exception...look at the rest of Africa...they are takers not contributors to wealth building. The hands are there to grab and take, but never for the creation of enterprise. Ofcourse there are exceptions but sadly not enough.

Rhodesia once was a great country and produced some good rugby players like Ray Mordt and Ian Robertson. S mall as it was it once beat the AB's and beat a very strong Northern Transvaal side at the Police Ground in Salisbury.

Although no comparison in size to SA they boxed well above their weight.

We have tried to remain positive for over 25 years but I'm afraid the "Rainbow Nation" was a delusion and a pipe dream with zero pot of gold at the end.

It's the truth and it hurts because we don't want to believe it.

What a crock of shit.

I see Combrink is no longer a Lion and Snyman is no longer a Bull.

Why not include all those who retired 5 years ago, Stupid. That way you could bring Bismark, Victor, Lambie and Du Preez into the fold.

Hell ... I'm sure of you ask nicely you could even bring Jean and John Smit back from retirement.

Fuck you and your mother, Stupid Dave.

Saffex, Brendan Nel wrote an article that said :

( Obviously applies to Super Rugby as well)

eb 21, 2019

Brenden Nel

If you’re a rugby fan, you may have to get used to the fact that, from 2020, the bulk of the Springbok team will be based abroad. It isn’t a scare tactic; it’s reality.

This may well be the last Super Rugby series where Springboks litter the stage and aren’t off serving foreign paymasters. SA Rugby knows it, and the provinces know it. But while it’s easy to blame the exchange rate, often our own administrators make it so easy for players to choose a foreign option rather than a local one, despite the fact that our country has so much to offer.

Tut-tut, I hear you say, yes our country has more than its fair share of problems. But, as we all know, the grass is not always greener on the other side, no matter the amount of cash thrown at the problem. Which brings me to a conversation I had with former Springbok captain Adriaan Strauss a few months back, on why he had never chosen the path of overseas clubs, and had always made his way in South Africa.

“You can have a wonderful life here in South Africa,” he told me, “the salaries don’t have to be on par with overseas clubs, but if there is a bit of leeway, and good offers are made, many players would prefer to stay closer to their families, and build a future for themselves here.”

We’re often told a rugby player’s lifespan is a short one and they need to make as much money now for their future. This is the reason many of them go overseas, but we sometimes overlook the fact that the local franchises make it easy for them to leave.

Sure, there are those who decide purely on financial terms, and the local franchises can’t match the offers they are made, and yes, some leave for the life experience. But there are times when teams could make more of an effort to keep players.

Take the situation currently at Western Province, where the elected officials from the amateur arm are trying their utmost to enforce their will on the professional side of Western Province rugby. This is happening behind the scenes and has spilled over into the public domain.

And for all the cries of fake news there is a situation there. I’m not going to expand on the merits of the players’ complaints over the Paul Treu saga, suffice to say that there is obviously a problem, and the manner in which management has approached it has made it worse rather than making it better.

This leaves WP in a precarious situation. Just 12 of their players have signed for next year and while we take it for granted that some Springboks will leave for greener pastures after the World Cup, what about those fringe players?

Eben Etzebeth has already signed with Toulon, while Siya Kolisi, Steven Kitshoff, Frans Malherbe and Pieter-Steph du Toit are high on the shopping lists and have already been made offers by clubs.

And then there’s the likes of Dillyn Leyds, Cobus Wiese, Sergeal Petersen, Wilco Louw, Damian de Allende and others. If they are unhappy at the way management has treated the situation, and see no real desire from the administrators to create a good working environment, would they choose to stay?

The Bulls of 2005-2010 proved that, by creating the right working environment, they could stave off the foreign offers for a while. After the 2007 World Cup victory the majority of Bulls Springboks had offers from overseas, but chose to stay and face the British and Irish Lions. They were happy, and truth be told, didn’t want the family vibe they had in their team to end.

It is also the reason the Lions have been so successful over the past few years. The culture of playing for each other, often borne out of circumstance, has transformed them into a tight group that stick together. Despite big-money offers, Elton Jantjies, Warren Whiteley, Malcolm Marx, Ross Cronje and Andries Fourie, among others all decided to stay in Johannesburg rather than head overseas.

Administrators will learn the hard way, that no matter what the offers on the table, a player wants to belong, wants to feel part of something and wants to be happy.

They may not be able to win every battle in keeping players in SA when the big money comes knocking but, believe me, if the environment is toxic and players aren’t happy, they’re making it easier for the foreign money men. My fear is that we may see a trickle become a flood at the end of the season.

Any SA player who turns down a lucrative overseas offer to stay in SA is making a very bad mistake unless he comes of course from a wealthy family etc.

Provinces could do more but suggesting this will turn the tide is BS. Somehow fu ds need to be raised to up salaries otherwise the exodus will continue. Can't see the Rand becoming strong again in the near future or perhaps ever. 

Seb......Tonga has just offered Kolisi a contract.

A free Mud hut, coconuts in the morning, at noon and night plus a bicycle (with balloon tires) to get around.

But not the Captaincy.

So it appears he's gone.

Any player who is offered a contract overseas is plain stupid if they decline such an offer.

Money, safety and a decent lifestyle are available to these players and their families so who can blame them for accepting the offers.

Plus many countries will also accept these folks as citizens after a short stay so an even bigger incentive to make the move and accept the contracts on offer.

I wonder just how many of the returning players will eventually regret the move back to RSA.

Does anyone know what happened to Warren W the Lions ex-skipper?

Thank you.

"Fuck you and your mother, Stupid Dave."

Spoken like a " Christian."

Hey, folks, some of these posting are way out of line.

Not pointing a finger at anyone as we are all guilty in one way or another.

I know we are all interested in SA sport and the country but should we just eliminate references to family and especially parents in our posting.

To have a dig at each other is fair game but folks who are not members and could be departed are not and should not be added to our degrading and foul posts.

I am just as guilty as anyone but certain posts are way, way out of line.

So prior to posting in the future let us think about what we wish to convey without being degrading, insulting and just plain rude.

Thanks.

I see you have mixed and matched some of the teams, yes, we are definitely  weaker without our overseas based players. I think we had a golden era of super rugby about 7 or 8 years ago when we pretty much had 3 SA teams in the semi finals and we had the bulls that won the the Super Rugby comp about 3 times in a row

That said, the whole thing of adding the kings and more dodgy teams has made super rugby far less attractive, given the insane travel schedule and the dumb conference system, not to mention the play-offs too. 

Then there is that old chestnut of quotas, back when the lions were on fire under Ackerman, they actually had the least quota players in their squad of all the super rugby teams. But I think a lot of the young black talent deserve their spot today, although there are still a few that should never leave the Vodacom cup. 

I'm sure we could pick a squad of 30 foreign based players that would easily beat the best 30 players we have left at home. 

I still think the our contracting model is wrong and that there is a way for SA to keep our players but at the same time allow them to make some dosh

I would almost go for central contracts and allow players to be loaned out for 3 months in from Nov to Feb to top up their salary, but as long as they come back to play super rugby and give our coaches a chance to pick them. But I would just use the curry cup to blood new young talent and for the fringe Boks that need to get back into form 

Yeah King I mixed it up a bit to spread the talent

If we had my 4 sides playing we would dominate the Super comp, provided of course we had 4 quality coaches to direct them 

The new Bok manager says he is going to follow the transformation format as decreed by the ANC.

Well, that just blew all hope of having a winning Bok side taking to the field against the AB`s or any other top team.

Sure there are a number of players who earn their position on merit but a lot of the rest are below test standard.

Hopefully, this does not turn out to be another Marigold end result.

If we had "MY" 4 sides ... blah, blah, bah ...

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaa!!

Yeah right.

Dumb Fuck Dave ... as delusional as ever.

Rather dazzle your homo son and his Mooner with your "wisdom".

Damn right you do ... and a whole lot less of yours.

".....who earn their position on merit but a lot of the rest are below test standard."

Name them.

Tx

I have to agree, Ross Cronje is probably the worst 9 ever to wear the boy jersey, not sure how he displaced Faf, but at least he has bounced back while playing for sale and a far better 9

Saffex, so have you thought about combos when selection your team? I still think we are bit light on 13's 

Just wondering why you selected Goosen? Not seen him play at 10 much recently and was mainly used as a 13 and full back by Stade before jumping ship with his dodgy resignation 

Yeah, Simelane, was probably the best baby bok a couple of years ago, but then Jean Roux kept selecting him on the wing. But this kid is seriously deceptive

Although, you need a 13 that can defend that channel. Kobus seem to have the right attributes for a 13 but not sure what his defence is like and he has been playing on the wing for a good few seasons now. 

That said, I like the idea of Rohan at 13, gives us another option. Not sure if I like Esterhuizen, I'm still to convince he is even a backline player. Probably would do better at 8 given his size, skill and speed, but not as a back. 

I also hope that we can get a decent 15, Kolbe seems to be doing well on the wing, not sure whether we should move him back to 15. Gelant keeps kicking the ball away. But I like how Willie plays as a 2nd play maker, would like to see another player develop in that mould, but with better defence and better at catching the high ball