The Tauted er touted youngsters and their fates

Let's start with Jaco Taute the poster child for early promotion. After a bright start against Oz Taute played a series of disastrous tests for the Boks. Replaced by de Jongh ...he said he wanted to concentrate on fullback. Injury cut short much of his S15 season, but he was clearly a reserve at the Stormers. Did nothing to suggest he has anything to offer but an inside step and the occasional slow as treacle, cut.

Mvovo is fading as his obvious match reading limitations are accepted as a fact.

Rhule can't tackle, I no longer see him in everybody's future team

Willie is the one huge success story this year. Hardly a totally new player, he is none the less a test debutant. His vision and deception are the major reason we now strike with our backs. Jean has become very hard to put away ala Mortlock, and Habana is a ruthless finisher....but Willie is the locksmith. And I trust him to make the crucial tackles as well...many of his misses are highly ambitious tackle attempts on kickoffs.

JJ had a better 2013 than 2012....but he had a better early 2013 than late 2013. As the opposition became tougher his robotic aspects and poor defence came to the fore. He does provide us with dramatic acceleration of the movement, and he will finish well. But is he a long termer, time and defence will tell.

Jordaan started the year ahead of JJ but a disastrous confrontation with Fruean set him back. This reminded me of Januarie running over Brent Russell...it looked that bad, and it happened twice. Injury provided a welcome cloak over his year.

Serfontein is a good example of why we shouldn't rush these youngsters. Too much time on the bench robbed him of match sharpness...and failings when he came on robbed him of confidence. You could hardly recognize the kid in the Cheetahs debacle last week. But he has to learn an inside step and charge is not going to cut it at top level.

Jantjies was a basket case at the Stormers....he robbed Taute of his opportunity as well, because the Stormers had to play Joe at 15 to kick. A sort of junior clone of the Quaalude, he is now thoroughly understood....and his weak defence will continue to hurt. He plays better for the Lions where he is more of the man...and he will have good provincial games. I doubt his nerve will hold at test level.

Goosen is the ever fading mirage. A flyhalf  who is as fast as a wing, and can pot them from 60 metres. but with a body held together with paper clips. A year later we know no more about Goosen. The hope is, like Jean, he will get some durability as he gets older. Perhaps we can then see if the dream matches the reality.

Reinach and van Zyl, who looked strong early in the S15, tended to fade, in part because of injuries. Then F du Preez returned and demonstrated how far they still have to go.

Kitshoff is a fine example of how to develop a youngster. Not rushed into the test team he has continued to grow as a player and in confidence. He looks ready to be given his chance soon.

Coenie as I wrote elsewhere today, still looks more like a loosehead. The Bok scrum switches from dominating to modestly dominated when he comes on. I doubt he is a better loosehead than Kitshoff though.

Malherbe disappeared for a long while with an injury. He looked pretty solid before that, but he certainly needs to prove himself.

Steff looked good against the Stormers last weekend, perhaps the best I've seen him. He is already anointed as Eben's long term partner. But if Bekker returns, he is the physically more imposing player. Just how much of Steff's play is talent and how much is the energy of youth, remains to be seen

Lood is another youngster supposedly destined for greatness. But I think it's mostly the name and the hair style.

Coetzee is on a reverse journey, from starter, to bench, to squad member. A nice player who does many good things, but doesn't have the horsepower to impose at test level....demonstrated by the way he fades in really tough S15 matches.

Lappies....see Coetzee

Kolisi is a strong bloke...as we saw with him holding up Nonu and busting through Hoare. But I was disappointed to see him trotting back during the halftime try. Is he cut from the same cloth as some of the French loosies, who play a similar game....or just a small chap who occasionaly flashes. Don't know yet.

Arno Botha has great credentials and started brightly for the Boks, but we never saw him against the top international teams. At this stage he looks promissing.

Mozart 

A long item with very pertinent misinterpretations showing open dislike of virtually all younger players is leading you astray once again:-

Taute

You really misrepresented the Taute - Stormers issue by near to 100%.   Taute was NOT the Stormers second choice full back - but they were forced to play Pietersen since they needed a reliable goal kicker after the initial dismal goal kicking performance by Jantjies.   That is the real issue here.   Taute got injured - otherwise he would have been the full back after Van Aswegen came onto the scene.

Jordaan

Please go to  ESPN Scrum and check your facts again.   Jordaan only missed one tackle on Fruean - not two - would call what you wrote a deliberate misrepresentation of facts.   Jordaan's defensive stats of 6% tackle misses throughout all the games he played in Super 15 and he was more than 4 times better in defence than De Jongh and nearly 3 times better than Engelbrecht.  Hell it really is disgusting to make the kind of comment you made  on injuries to players.   Jordaan did not show as much on attack as he should have - but the  whole Sharks  backline showed very little in Super 15 this year, basically because of the huge injury list they suffered from.

Goosen

Crap comment again - he was injured early in the competition - but showed up well when he played for the Cheetahs.   Remember the Cheetahs won one tour game in New Zealand (the Highlanders) and also beat the Waratahs in Australia.  Yes - his injuiry problems is a worry - but he started off too early to my mind and hopefully will be available to replace the hopeless Morne Steyn.

De Jager

You have no reason to make the remarks you made.  This youngster was very good this year in Super 15 - and a mile better than the hopeless Juandre Kruger.   Go and check the stats and you may find out something.

Coetzee

His strong point is his high tackle count.    He is an average ball carrier and not very effective in either break down ball recovery and line outs.  Was rather disappointing this year and I agree with you he was not really up to standard.

Labuschagne

Absolute tripe as per normal when you discuss Labuschagne - first of all why do you dislike this guy so much - it seems almost like hatred.   Labuschagne was the best loosie in all aspects of play  in all teams in  Super 15 in all aspects of loosie play - tackle count - breakdown ball recovery and turnovers - line breaks and line out takes.   His stats were better than those of Messam and Read in all mentioned facets.   In any event he is a completely different player than Coetzee.    What else do you expect from him?   He is ten times the loosie Alberts will ever be - since the latter is totally ineffective in most items listed.

Kolisi

Despite Saffex's high opinion of him there are factors that worries me about him.  He would have one or at most two ball carries per game and vvanish for the rest of the game  - his tackle count is very low for a loosie and he does not recover balls in tackle situations and breakdowns, while he is useless in line out play.   Limited capacity in virtually all aspects of loosie play - but he is better than Alberts in those things he does do.  I do not think he will develop into a top loosie.

Agree with you on other aspects and players listed.

Why don't you also start a thread about existing Springboks who failed this year - that would show even-handedness on your part.     

Mozart

Just an aside.   Experts will tell you that p hysically rugby players are at their peak in the age group 25 to 28.   A  minority peak earlier and in exceptional cases some exceeds that age - especially backline players.  Labuschagne reached his peak at 24 - which is not at all late in his career.

Mozart

Just one thing - is there a law prohibiting Labuschagne from peaking at 24 or what?  Why no comment on my question as to what else he should do to prove his capacity as a player?

Insofar as Jordaan is concerned your memory is either deliberately or through malice faulty as is evident from the following stats for the relevant game:

Fruean never scored a try in the game you are referring to - none at all.  And you also misrepresented the missed tackle issue completely.  The missed tackle was in traffic and Jordaan obviously used the wrong technique in that case.  Fruean was tackled by the next player and a maul resulted.   You would notice also that there were no other missed tackles by Jordaan - who tackled him five times afterwards and he missed a tackle on Jordaan as well.   You are not reflecting what really happened and you are wrong in this case.   In the whole of Super 15 in the 10 games he played in Jordaan missed FOUR TACKLES in total (the one on Freuan being 1)  - so in all other games he played in he missed only 3 tackles.  Sorry but your comments at the time was thast it was a career-defining occurrence - but never in the career of any sportsman has one incident in one match being career- defining - so your prejudice reigns supreme once more. 

Mozart

You do talk tripe at times you know - either that or you are deliberately misrepresenting facts.

About Jordaan you wrote as follows:-

"he ran over him twice, once for a try."  What else can one assume from that statement than that Freuan scored the try after "running over" Jordaan.   That fact is in any effect contradicted in toto by the ESPN stats quoted.

That was a total misrepresentation of the whole story.   The missed tackle of Jordaan was on the 10 meter line of the Sharks and what I said was exactly what happened.   There was no try scored from that missed  tackle - and Jordaan did not get run over for a try later on.  He tackled Fruean on the Sharks 22 - but could not prevent an off-load by Fruean to Ellis and Ndungane missed the tackle on the latter - there was no there cover defence at all - and Ellis scored the try.

If you want to be honest - you should admit you were wrong in the relevant regard and not be fabricating things that NEVER HAPPENED.  

Mozart

Still not true - You are talking crap from the start -  he did not drag Jordaan for ten meters.   Go and watch the game if you do not believe me.  And secondly there never was a "big break" as you said now in the case of the missed tackle - Fruean was tackled by the next forward he ran into 5 meters o - no real big break as you implied.    That is the fact of the case.

However, a vast difference and about 50% nearer to the truth than what you said before. but still false and biased beyond belief.

I'm admitting nothing....watch this at minute 00.20 and listen to the comments:

"he gets outside Jordaan and commits NDungane after that it's easy rugby"

"Fruean was the X factor"

"Fruean was immense in this half"

"It's all about Fruean getting outside Jordaan"

And that wasn't even the break where he left Jordone and dusted on the deck, because the try was narrowly averted and they only show the points .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps-f4DuXrMg

Balls - balls balls and Mozert BS all over.   Stick to facts and you may one day get it right.  Your initial  comments were BS from the start and you are getting worse and worse.   He had a run around Jordaan - but Jordaan caught him and tackled him  - are you really trying to BS everyone on this Board by fabrication of facts?

Listen to the NZ commentators and that would be what thy said.   But you are so biased you need to get some medicine - maybe that would help.

Saffex

Agree with you about most of your comments above - except Jantjies.   The latter has far too many negatives to be anywhere near the Springbok team.   

However, I think what Mozart wrote above is clear evidence of bias against certain players and he was fabricating things like it was unbelievable and so far away from the truth in most cases that it was really laughable.  

He makes false statements and when challenged either go quiet or start fabricating further things that never happened.   When asked clearly what he expected more than what Labuschagne did produce in Super 15  - he would not respond, because he was cornered. 

Problem with Mozart Is that if a player threaten one of his favourites in the Springbok team - he goes on the discrediting route against the upcoming player and then use deliberate denigration as a route.   That for instance is why he called Pieter  Steph Stephanie in his comments.   You can tract that trait through all his postings.

Engelbrecht is one example - despite what you said he does have some deficiencies but way less than what Mozart ascribed to him - and the reason is that he is keeping De Jongh out of contention.  Same with Jordaan.

A second example is Goosen.  Since he can find nothing negative - he will try every argument in the book to discredit him.   He has planted the seed because he wants to avert any potential threat to Morne like a plague.   You will find false comments on any game that Goosen played in like "he produce nothing in that game" coming to the fore.   The slightest mistake made by Goosen will become career-defining on the part of Mozart.   But the disastrous performance in the Ellis Park test by Morne will be papered over by phrases that he is the best kicker at goal in the world and that wipes out all Morne's negatives according to Mozart.

Du Toit is threatening the position of Kruger in the test team - so first effort was to  say that Du Toit - when he came off the bench in a game - was hyper-active and he would not last a full game.   When he played a full game in the next match, the hyper-active comments vanished - but it is back with us again in the above posting.   When performance did not work - the next issue was denigration through name-calling as mentioned earlier.

The above is just Mozart all over - he hates younger upcoming players with a vengeance and then fabricates reasons to discredit them if they in any way threaten his favourites in the Springbok team.   Game, se t and match.   

Ceradyne

Welcome back - and as per normal no comments on this thread - but harking back to rubbish you wrote previously.  How about  dealing with Morne's performance at Ellis Park for instance?   Not a word on that - just like Mozart's silence on that one.

Get real and start something by dealing with discussions under correct threads.   And just for the record if Morne at Stade Francais is as bad as he was Ellis Park - he won't last long there.

It is Friday and my day for leniency  - so I will not describe what you are in reality - so lets get some decent rugby comments from you, please. 

Ceradyne

W might as well deal with Morne's latest debacle under this threat - so what is you comments n that one?  

Ceradyne

I laugh my ass off.   Funny effort this one. Mo rne missed three tackles and all three resulted in tries for the AB's - and he made a fool of himself in not kicking out a ball as the siren was about to go off - another try.   Try again - you really are funny.

Not my opinion in this case - it is facts that was there for all to see.  

Ceradyne

Still LMAO - still no comment on the Morne debacle.   Now back to the Stade Francais issue -  I said he missed two relieving line kicks - which you disputed - that is the crux of the matter.   I went on to say he has a history of buggering up badly in crunch games - like he did at Ellis Park and in the Super 15 semi and made the remark about how long he was going to last at the Club. 

You then went totally overboard to try and proof otherwise - and there was no actual evidence to prove that I was wrong - in the end I just won't discuss the issue any further with a nutcase Morne Steyn groupie.

Game, set and match.

Oh by the way - Morne cost us the game at Ellis Park - he was SHIT  in capital letter - just like he cost us the game at Dunedin  last year - just like he cost the Bulls' loss in the Super 15 semi.   Want any further proof of games Morne buggered up comprehensively?

Mozart

With respect the poor defence and rubbish play of experienced Springboks cost us more than the inexperienced ones did.   Why not replace the experienced players who under-perform game after game with younger players who have shown the experienced bullshitters up on Super 15 level already? 

Ceradyne

Excellent excuse.  You have not watched the game and never recorded it either - so I  must be misinterpreting what happened.   There was lengthy debates on the game and there is also the  ESPN Scrum stats as background.

My interpretation of what happened was confirmed by virtually all members - but Mozart who tried to blame the loss on Engelbrecht and went quiet on Morne.   That theory was debunked early on - so now you can go and sit in the corner - crying about how falsely people accuse Morne of poor play and that he is not guilty of all the accusations against him - but it will not help.  He was SHIT in capital letters - end of story. .   

History of the Junior Springboks against touring teams. The Junior Boks won 3 of 14 matches at home.....in many cases against lesser players in the touring squads. Hardly a strong case for fast forwarding young players into the Boks. But perhaps we should select a Junior Bok team and have them play the Sharks, after they get thumped perhaps all this whining will stop.

Mozart

How many younger players were in that list of tests you just flouted now?   Your argument is non-existent in the absence of any  proof as to the impact of younger players on test outcomes - and who fouled up most in those tests.

Hardly an argument on the issue of the test series of 2013  - and the present players - not so?

Ceradyne

I apologised because I was wrong about the time Meyer was replaced - not anything else.   By the time he was replaced Morne has missed 4 penalty kicks at goal and one conversion - 14 point gone missing.   Any justification for that by any chance?   He was dropped from the team since he was BS in capital letters in that game.  

Ceradyne

Hell - I have been hit by a wave of Bullshit emanating from you.   That really is unbelievable.   Anyway - I have never seen such a display of real BS as was the case in your latest post.

Mama  mia - I can understand now what is wrong with you - any Steyn groupie must be a nutcase.      

Morne tackled poorly in that test. I think the miss on Barrett was a weak reflex, but he had plenty of time to line up Ben Smith. The high tackle he made is part of a pattern in our rugby. How many handoffs do our guys have to see before they realize you can't go high from slightly behind and reaching, 5 metres from our line.

That said Morne also made 6 good tackles, more than any Bok back. In the tackling stakes our worst by far was Kirchner, followed by JJ, Willie and then Morne. The dart Willie made to try to intercept before the halftime try was disastrous.

Nobody tackled well among the backs....they were so careless it makes one think all the preparation was about attack.