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FORUM / RUGBY /  The Wallabies - A brave coach

The Wallabies - A brave coach

Started by clevermike38 REPLIES511 VIEWS· 08 Jun 2014, 05:51
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Jun 2014, 05:51
#1
08 Jun 2014, 05:51#1

In watching the games yesterday  - there was one outstanding issue that was very pertinent.   The Wallabies over the past two years were not a leading team and they for instance lost badly in 2012 against the French and was very poor - especially in the third test - against the Lions.


McKenxie realized that the rather poor to average performances are not leading the Wallabies anywhere but down.   He then went for a new approach and made some what appears to be some weird selections - eg Toomua and Kuridrani as the center combination and also looked carefully at the forwards - changing the captaincy and leaving out Genia.


He apparently realized that some player have gone stale and that major change was necessary to bring about an advance in Aussie rugby.   Coming from the Reds he first off all tinkered around with Reds players and for the latest test he forgot his previous Reds mantle and started afresh.


The result was the most attractive and most efficient performance of the Aussies over the past two years.


The differences with Hansen and Meyer's approach was in evidence and produced very good results.   McKenxie loked at the performances over the Super Series thus far and realized that he could not continue to select players based on experience and reputation only and that made for a huge improcvment.


Hansen picked his team based on those two principles and brought in virtually no new players - he had really only Fekitoa as a new face in the line up.  With all due respect the team looked frail and their win against the English team without some key players absent as a result of the Aviva Final - was unconvincing and really not up to standard.  New Zealand really need to look at the experienced players and also forget about reputation - some players are really not what they used to be.


In the case of Meyer he went for the so-called reputation experienced players and brought in only one new player - moving Pietersen from wing to center.  For the rest he went for the over 30's in a big way and his preference for Bue Bulls and ex-Blue Bulls players were in evidence.  The Springboks played against a team comprising of mostly club players and with rare exceptions (like O'Connor and Ranger) players that would not make an international side for a major test-playing country in future.   Even though the Springboks won - it was more due to the lack of co-ordination in the so00called World 15 team and the outstanding individual performances by about half of the team members.


The Springbok scrumming was a scandalous disaster for a country that always prided themselves on their scrumming and tight 5 prowess.   The problem was obvious, namely -


*   at least one of the starting props (Du Plessis) and one of the bench props (Steenkamp) was in crude terms Piss-poor; and

*   the locks obviously did not provide support in the scrums.


The center combination showed nothing of real value and was non-descript to say the least - no penetration at all.   Neyer;s favourite flyhalf (Morne Steyn) was poor and it became clear why his club would not have him as their starting flyhalf.


That brings me to a conclusion that -


*   McKenzie was brave and enhanced his team performances by selections based on performance and not experience and reputation only;


*   Hansen stagnated and made minimal changes to the team that appeared to be stale with too much emphasis on experience and reputation and a certain degree of disregard for present performances; and


*   Meyer went backwards in selecting players only on experience and reputation with no regard to performances and n the process selected players that failed SA in 2010 ans 2011.  In respect of building up a team for the WC next year - 


*   Mckenzie made serious progress;

*   Hansen was stagnant; and

*   Meyer went backwards seriously.   


  


JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
08 Jun 2014, 11:48
#2
08 Jun 2014, 11:48#2
Clevermike: I agree in general with your point about Mckenzie taking some risks and changing his team for the better. 
BUT he had too. Boks & ABs are far more solid teams & radical change is not what is necessary. 
I think both Hansen & Meyer wanted to check the state-of-play of their teams. Meyer wanted to see how the old timers were & Hansen wanted to keep his core players to give them a warm-up game. He tested one or two players either new or returning. So the coaches had different objectives because the teams are at different stages of maturity (no pun intended).
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
08 Jun 2014, 12:43
#3
08 Jun 2014, 12:43#3
 I think your over exagereating a tad i mean its only one game.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Jun 2014, 13:13
#4
08 Jun 2014, 13:13#4
 3ku1
In a way I agree with you about the issue - and also with what hakwa wrote.  I wrote elsewhere that Hansen will have to do some soul searching after the enxt trest if there are still worrisome signs.
The difference between Hansen and Meyer is that Hansen wanted to check out the status  of the present squad and made only two real changes - namely by bringing in Kaino and putting Fekitoa on the bench.   He did get some reults - but not as postive as he would have liked.
Meyer on the other hand tried to go back to players from 2007 - whose steam ran out in 2010 and  2011  - not the existing player he wanted to test out.   His tests was in  some respects a failure.  In the process the scrumming went out of the window and the center pairing was inadequate - to say the least.   Morne Steyn was not acceptable as aa Stade Francais flyhalf - but Meyer thought he knew better. Steyn flopped as well - so we are really showing negative progress.
Whether Meyer learned anything of the deficiencies shown on Saturday is not clear at all - we will have to wait for his announcement of the team for the test on Saturday.   The problem is that Meyer is a job for pals coach who routinely disregards performance as a selection norm - so I do not expect any changes against the Welsh.  
That should really be welcomed by the A B's and the Aussies in the RC tests this year.   
              
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
08 Jun 2014, 13:26
#5
08 Jun 2014, 13:26#5
 Meyer is our best coach by a country mile. He's going to win us a World Cup. His selections are a bit iffy at times and he is a big believer in momentum.
In fact bar Morne's kicking, I thought Steyn had a decent match. Frans Steyn was barely seen, for a game that involved backlines greatly Fransie didn't show up. JP was also decent, with more gametime there he could solve our 13 problem.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Jun 2014, 13:45
#6
08 Jun 2014, 13:45#6
 Shezza
I was not impressed by the scrumming - that disintegrated completely.
As you said Francois Steyn was virtually never seen and whebn he was he achieved very little.
Morne Steyn - no he typoified his game by making 29 meter gains with penalty kicks at the line.  When he did try and carry the ball, he was ineffective and the backline attacks was only possible when both the Steyns were absent from the plays.  
As to Pietersen - he did not d enough to show whether he will be successful at center. I can remember a poor pass he made once and he played more like a wing than a center.
However, I doubt very much whether the Saturday center combination will really be used in the RC and I think Meyer is really looking at De Allende at center - since the latter has center abilities - while Pietersen ie really a wing and creating space and off-lading is not in his repertoire.
I also think that one of the few changes that Meyer will make on Saturday will be playing Goosen ahead of Morne Steyn at flyhalf.   However, the real test will be what Meyer is going to do with the Tight 5 - who essentially disintegrated in the scrumming  yesterday.   He may end up with changing the tighthead prop - Jannie was very poor in Super 15 as well - but that will not solve the problem, since I think the locks do not supply enough support to the props.     This is really a problem - was always with Matfield and I think Bakkies is nowadays also guilty of that.  And it is high time that Steenkamp be forgotten about.       
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
08 Jun 2014, 14:38
#7
08 Jun 2014, 14:38#7
 I don't think that center combination will stick for the RC either, atleast I hope not!Morne Steyn got the backline firing and he kicked far less than is usual from him! Granted he shouldn't of made the team he wasn't that bad. I think that both Du Preez and Goosen will start against the Welsh as well as it being likely that Schalla and Flip starting. He didn't show enough to say that he can't play center. Our props are worrisome, we've got no loosehead except the Beast and Coenie at tighthead isn't working. I would give Marcel Van Der Merwe some gametime this month, probably against the Scots. Jannie is just not good enough. Steenkamp is useless, needs to bite the bullet and retire. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Jun 2014, 17:17
#8
08 Jun 2014, 17:17#8
Shezza
I think that Meyer probably has Malherbe in mind for the CR at tighthead.  Maybe Coenie should revert back to loose head.
However what really is bothersome is the locks - who do not provide adequate support for the props.   That remains a major problem.  At 106 kgs Matfield is just too light for that job and I do not think that Botha is providing the needed strength either.   This is not something that the public will easily notice.   Although Du Plessis was looking tired in his last few matches - he never was as poor as yersterday - when he had Matfield behind him.   Beast was much better in Super 15 and he had Botha behind him yesterday and also folded at times.
We often enough blame the props - but forget about the locks and the hookers role in scrums.   Even the strongest of props will cave in without the necessary support and I am afraid that support was not there in this case.
However, I am sure and indeed hope that Meyer identifies that problem asap and come up with a solution.  
                
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
09 Jun 2014, 04:04
#9
09 Jun 2014, 04:04#9
Nice to see Australia playing their type of rugby. As much as I respect Deans as a coach and he did have Australia playing some good rugby at times it never felt like the players or the public totally bought into it. There were signs last year of this dangerous Wallaby team and if it continues I can see this continuing to rejuvenate rugby in Australia which is a great thing for rugby in general. 
Quade who? Foley looks the part.  Slipper, AAC, Folau, Hooper all had good games. Kuridrani had a better game than I thought he would, but AAC should be starting 13 with McCabe or Horne on wing.
Is there a team with worse continuity than the French? Every game there seems to be a significantly different team. They looked disjointed and execution was poor. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jun 2014, 06:34
#10
09 Jun 2014, 06:34#10
Quite right Matey....Deans tried to get a nation that played a handling game punctuated by Joe Cool/ Mortlock cuts onto the ball...to play tough Crusaders rucking rugby. It was a miss from the start. You have to stick with your playing traditions as Meyer is doing with the Boks.

But my guess is Oz have zero chance of winning in RSA or NZ this year. Folau aside, they don't have  the players.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jun 2014, 06:44
#11
09 Jun 2014, 06:44#11
 Mozart
I differ from you here about them beating New Zealand and SA - if we play the team we played on Saturday - they are going to beat us and beat us badly.   Their scrumming for one is much better than ours was and they have a functioning backline with much better players than we had on Saturday.   
There will have to be major changes to our team to even be competitive.  That applies to both the center combination and flyhalf  - which I am sure there will be.  And Meyer will have to clear up the Tight 5 deficiencies.  We cannot go into the game knowing that virtually every scrum will result in a penalty against us and we cannot get in time to breakdown situations.   Burger may be the answer to that -  but will he be able to get past his injury problems?      
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
09 Jun 2014, 11:10
#12
09 Jun 2014, 11:10#12
 The latest is that our front row suffered because of the two "old toppies" behind them in the scrum. Against the Stormers that exact same front row had these two behind them:

Full name Stephan Lewies Born January 27, 1992 Current age 22 years 133 days Major teams Natal Sharks, Sharks Position Lock Height 2.00 m Weight 114 kg
Full name Ettienne Oosthuizen Born December 22, 1992 Current age 21 years 169 days Major teams Brumbies, Lions, Sharks Position Lock Height 1.98 m Weight 115 kg

Remind us what happened?


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jun 2014, 11:25
#13
09 Jun 2014, 11:25#13
 Cerdayne
The Jannie was 50-50 in the Stormers game - but nor half as much as he was on Saturday.   And Beast was firm in the Sharks - Stormers game and all preceding games - but Saturday he was poor - with Matfield scrumming behind him.  Du Plessis was always acceptable and sometimes 50-50 this year - but on Saturday poor with Botha supposedly supporting him.   When Steenkamp came on the mess became impossible. 
Even though the props was at times questionable on Saturday they were not only questionable - they were a disaster.  Why should that happen - because the hooker was not changed?    
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
09 Jun 2014, 11:50
#14
09 Jun 2014, 11:50#14
 
Bok scrummaging was laughable.

To be given a hiding like that by a make shift team should be reason for concern.

Bakkies was once a upon a time a powerful scrummager. By the looks of it, all he is now ... is old, frail and cowardly.

Jannie has been due for replacement for at least a season now. He can't tackle and he can't scrum, so of what use is he ... apart from the regular yellow card, I mean?

Matfield has never been much in the tight loose. His scrummaging was always feeble and pathetic ... it's even worse now. Do we really need one in the team who's sole purpose is that of a jolly jumper? Flippie would have been streets better. At least he contributes to other facets of the game. 

Beast and Bismarck did their best to compensate for these useless sods. Not too bad if you take it they went up against an entire tight 5 by themselves. .





 

 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
09 Jun 2014, 13:27
#15
09 Jun 2014, 13:27#15
 How do you judge the scrummaging of the locks? By the props getting moered? The Sharks front row may have a little better against the Stormers  but then again Vermaak, Coetzee and Cilliers is not quite Taumalolo, Burden and Hayman are they?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jun 2014, 13:43
#16
09 Jun 2014, 13:43#16
 Ceradyne
Are you bloody ignorant.  The tight 5 makes up the scrumming combination.  There was three failures on Saturday - CC is correct - and that meant the scrums folded.   Those three were Jannie, but in the main the two locks.  Beast never fails when he gets proper support and he got  S H I T on Saturday.  Du Plessis always was better than he was on Saturday - so that means no support as well.   
I know you are covering for the Matfield- Botha combination - but sorry - they are no good and will fail all the time.   This is not bloody club rugby to which you seems to be addicted.  


     
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
09 Jun 2014, 13:49
#17
09 Jun 2014, 13:49#17
 
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaaaaa!!!

Ummmmmmmmm "Vlag" ... !!!! Perhaps it's best you say as little as possible from now on ... ok???

Doffie!!


CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
09 Jun 2014, 14:37
#18
09 Jun 2014, 14:37#18
 Hahahaha. You two clowns. You blame Victor and Bakkies for the scrummaging. Al I asked was how you judge the scrummaging of the the locks? I tell you that the Bok front row, sans Bakkies and Victor, faired no better against a weaker Stormers front row and they had two heavier youngsters behind them on that occasion. Your "fact" that the Bok tight five suffered mainly because of Matfield and Bakkies is nothing but opinion. Go play with your yo-yo s.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
09 Jun 2014, 14:55
#19
09 Jun 2014, 14:55#19
The Brumbies recently out scrummed the Sharks front row in Australia. 

I would agree that it is often hard to see who is the "most" responsible within the tight5 for poor scrumming. 
It is however easier to see if it is the prop than if it is the lock because they fall down, get buckled or bind incorrectly etc. 
If a prop does not have the correct shoulder angle, it does not matter how strong the lock is.
How do you determine how hard a lock is pushing given they are mostly blocked from site by the flanks, eight man and props.
I have seen Jannie arguing with the referee allot recently, and the Sharks scrum has been average for much of the SuperXV.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
09 Jun 2014, 15:00
#20
09 Jun 2014, 15:00#20
 
Hell of a thing trying to get both feet out your mouth, huh?

Good try though.

Should perhaps think of a career change.

How's a "stand up comedian" strike you?

You'd make a killing!!


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jun 2014, 21:25
#21
09 Jun 2014, 21:25#21

Shark is right....when the prop drops his bind or the tighthead is kinked inside, its his scrumming at fault. When you see heavy wheeling....which we did not on Saturday, you can look to the locks and flanks as well.

 

 

Let me put it plainly....Bakkies and Victor both had fine games. Their critics are latching onto the scrums because they are embarrassed in their prediction that our locks would fail. Dishonest sour grapes.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jun 2014, 21:41
#22
09 Jun 2014, 21:41#22
 Mozart
One word - Bullshit.  The props are a key to scrumming and they need support from the locks - if that is not forthcoming then the props are in serious trouble.  And there was zilch from both locks.
What fine games.  Matfield and Botha was noticeable in one move made by the Boks - for the rest they were only seen in line outs and scuffles.   They went AWOL in scrums and missed a number of tackles.  In one move where Botha tried to carry the ball - he was tackled back.   
I think the Welsh are hoping that Meyer is stupid enough to keep those two as locks on Saturday - they would have a field day then, especially in the scrums - but in other phases as well.   
CL
ClaydogClub Pro691 posts
10 Jun 2014, 00:57
#23
10 Jun 2014, 00:57#23
 Good solid start to our international campaign. There were some good signs for the Wallabies and I think selections were justified. The French didn't contest much in the ruck but our pack played well. Our new halves also looked the goods but until we come up against the boks and kiwis you can never be certain.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Jun 2014, 01:27
#24
10 Jun 2014, 01:27#24
 The current Oz side will thump the current Bok side
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
10 Jun 2014, 10:59
#25
10 Jun 2014, 10:59#25
 
Damn right, Dave!!

Take a look at the new recruits brought into the Wallaby side.

All on merit. 90% young talented boys taking up their rightful spots. Awesome to see.

Their coach doesn't feel obligated to selecting house friends. Either your good enough or your gone. Ask Horwill. Ask Genia

The Wallabies are gonna be a handful this year.

Wouldn't surprise me to see the Wallabies and the Poms contesting the World Cup final next year.


CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Jun 2014, 11:18
#26
10 Jun 2014, 11:18#26
 "One word - Bullshit.  The props are a key to scrumming and they need support from the locks - if that is not forthcoming then the props are in serious trouble.  And there was zilch from both locks."

Two points.....
1. How can a lock be blamed for a prop not binding properly?
2. I have asked this few times and all I get is ducking and diving.... how do you judge the support of  the locks in a scrum? An honest question.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
10 Jun 2014, 11:56
#27
10 Jun 2014, 11:56#27

Don't be stupid "Vlag" ... why would a lock be responsible for the prop's binding?

Maybe you are stupid after all.

Huh??

Try to use a little more head next time round ... ok?


CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Jun 2014, 12:40
#28
10 Jun 2014, 12:40#28
 Well, look at it this way. The props get pinged for binding and we hear that our scrums were kak because of the locks.

In any case, why don't you try and explain my second question without giving me an assumption.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
10 Jun 2014, 13:04
#29
10 Jun 2014, 13:04#29
 
Is it really that difficult to understand?

At first I thought you were kidding ... but it seems your quite serious.

Clearly the locks only lean gently on the props in front of them. It's the perfect opportunity to take a breather while the poor friggin bastard in front contends with the opposition's pack at scrum time.

You gotta take into consideration that the match is 80 minutes long, and being a geezer you gotta pace yourself or your done for.

I guess your right, "Vlag" ... that poor scrumming demonstration we saw this past weekend falls squarely on the shoulders of the props. The locks had nothing to do with it and pinning it on them is a tad unfair.

I apologize.




CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Jun 2014, 13:19
#30
10 Jun 2014, 13:19#30
 Dof Doos
A props get penalized when he slips their binds when the pressure comes in - not before.  That normally happens if there is no support from the locks and there was none on Saturday.    They can change the props and keep the two locks and it will be as bad and most likely worse  than it was on Friday.
Pieter de Villiers was seen on TC and he really looked pissed off and both Beats and Jannie spoke seriously to the two locks at one stage.  I am sure that the props actually told the two locks to start scrumming properly.  There was no response from either Botha or Matfield, but things did not improve afterwards.
De Villiers as prop coach is not going to accept the situations lightly and I think there will be hell to play within the camp.      
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Jun 2014, 13:35
#31
10 Jun 2014, 13:35#31
 You see ou CC, there he goes again. It was not me  who said that it is the lock's fault that the prop slips his bind, it was your gabba, ou Maaikie. I just repeated it to draw your attention to it.

You guys keep on coming with assumptions that the locks  were at fault. Just as much as you keep on pissing that the locks did not push in the scrums, you cannot count out the fact that the props were kakking as well.

Ou StupidDrol keeps on assuming that Beast and Jannie were pissing because the locks were not scrumming. How do we know that Victor and  Bakkies did not say: "Fuckit ouens, can't you keep your bind...?" and Beast and Jannie shouted: "But we are fucking doing our best but these fucking okes are shoving our heads back into our shoulders....".

And lastly ou CC I can reply with almost the exact same remark as you. "I guess your right, "Vlag" CC ... that poor scrumming demonstration we saw this past weekend falls squarely on the shoulders of the props locks."

Just answer the question: "How do you judge the support of the locks in the scrums". Had we played that game with Werner Kruger and Dean Greyling in the front row and, let's say, Lood and Lewies or whoever behind them....... , two guesses who would have shouldered 100% of the blame for the kak scrums.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Jun 2014, 14:08
#32
10 Jun 2014, 14:08#32
Dof Doos
Can you read English - what I said is that an unsupported prop is likely to  slip his grip when the pressure comes on.   Who has to support the props Doos?  The locks obviously.  
You are squirming like a snake to support four of the worst players that can doom the Springbok efforts this year - Morne Steyn, Grthro Steenkamp, Bakkies Botha and Victor Matfield - and obviously the stupid coach who are daft enough to select them.      
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Jun 2014, 14:29
#33
10 Jun 2014, 14:29#33

Who blamed the lock for a prop not binding properly?

 

The consensus in modern rugby is that you need young athletic locks with grunt......locks that weigh at least 115kg plus at test level......ie not Matfield......it does not take a brain scientist to work out that the Bok scrum struggled as a unit against a World side that has hardly played together........the Bok frontrow is the dominating Sharks frontrow.......I read elsewhere that the Brumbies dominated the Sharks scrum - what utter rubbish.

 

The issue with the Bok scrum is the lack of grunt provided by Matfield........in his youth he bulked up to a respectable 113kg, was very athletic and the Bok scrum benefited from the Bakkies/Matfield combo......gone is the bulk and youth and with it comes a liability in the engine room.

 

To say Matfield and Bakkies had good games on Sat is laughable.......Matfield was awol for much of the game and Bakkies scored a simple try.......hardly the measure of a lock.

 

Fact is these old farts are past it and youngsters like Etzebeth, PSDT, Lood, Lewies, du Plessis and Willemse add twice the value.....there is no way in hell these old timers could live with the youngsters in every aspect of play.......the law of nature dictates as much.

 

You have to be one ignorant rugby follower if you think these old farts are the answer.........but confirmation will be provided over the next few months.

 

If Meyer retains his current side, the Boks will lose more tests than they will win this year. Oz and NZ will beat them home and away and I cant for the life of me see them getting past Wales if Wales are at full strength.......they will however struggle past Scotland

 

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
10 Jun 2014, 14:33
#34
10 Jun 2014, 14:33#34
 
Still struggling huh!!!

And there I thought it was so simple. You didn't perhaps fall on your head as a youngster ... did you??

Ask yourself a simple question ... we were regarded as having the most powerful scrumming set piece last year. That's according to Meyer and his supposed stats.

Why is it that we're suddenly being annihilated ... and that by a make shift team.

What has changed since last year?

We had the same front row ...

The same loosies ...

WAIT A DAMN MOMENT ... OUR LOCKS ... THEY WERE DIFFERENT

GASP!!!

OH WOW!!!

SHOCK OF ALL FRIGGIN HORRORS!!!


You think that could be it??

Just maybe ... ??

Huh??

Mike is right ... you are most certainly Doff!!


CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Jun 2014, 14:53
#35
10 Jun 2014, 14:53#35
 @Saffex, who blamed the locks when  the prop's bind slip? You buddy Maaikie did, Twice.

clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11101 RE: The Wallabies - A brave coach
June 10, 2014, 11:19:03  Dof Doos
A props get penalized when he slips their binds when the pressure comes in - not before.  That normally happens if there is no support from the locks and there was none on Saturday.  
clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11101 RE: The Wallabies - A brave coach
June 10, 2014, 12:08:28 Dof Doos
Can you read English - what I said is that an unsupported prop is likely to  slip his grip when the pressure comes on.   Who has to support the props Doos?  The locks obviously.  
And then ou CC accuses me of still struggling. Let's get back to an earlier remark that I made.





Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2155 RE: The Wallabies - A brave coach
June 09, 2014, 12:37:16  Hahahaha. You two clowns. You blame Victor and Bakkies for the scrummaging. Al I asked was how you judge the scrummaging of the the locks? I tell you that the Bok front row, sans Bakkies and Victor, faired no better against a weaker Stormers front row and they had two heavier youngsters behind them on that occasion. Your "fact" that the Bok tight five suffered mainly because of Matfield and Bakkies is nothing but opinion. Go play with your yo-yo s.



What has changed? Same front row. Different locks. Same result.

Once again. Please tell me how I can judge when it is because of the locks and when it is because of the front row that there are problems in the scrum. That is not to much to ask,is it?

Oh and please note that, up till now, I have not blamed anybody for our scrummaging. Neither the locks, nor the props. All I have been asking is how you came to the conclusion that it was the locks.
What have you seen apart from Jannie and Beast allegedly vloeking Bakkies and Victor  and Pieter De Villiers being  pissed off at Bakkies  and Victor? Yes, apparently De Villiers' facial expression clearly told  the story: "These two hasbeen old cunts are making my star props look kak. I am going to demand that HM tell them to fuck  off".
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Jun 2014, 14:58
#36
10 Jun 2014, 14:58#36
Ah that's ok, I thought you might have insinuated it was me  
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
10 Jun 2014, 15:13
#37
10 Jun 2014, 15:13#37

Me thinks your protesting a little too much "Vlag" ...

Die pap is op die vloer, boet!!

You made an arse of yourself ...

Funny thing is how you love to lecture us, especially Mike, yet you have no clue of the basics.




CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Jun 2014, 15:58
#38
10 Jun 2014, 15:58#38
 Ah, so I was correct then. Your assumption that we scrummed kak because of Victor and Bakkies was no more than a hunch then.......?

I am hardly ever lecturing. It is mostly a matter of questioning the so-called facts. The only lecture that i have ever had was: "Don't exaggerate and try and bullshit everybody."

You know, if ou Maaikie (or you, for that matter) said something like: "Our scrummaging was not always shit-hot. It could have been because Victor and Bakkies was not providing enough from their side, which was not helped by the fact that Beats, Jannie and Bismarck has been playing game after game after game for how long now..... etc, etc, etc". But to start off with this "the prop slips his bind because Victor was not providing enough grunt, Pieter de Villiers' expression and other bullshit".... That is where the credibility goes down the tube....... again.

Look. I don't give a flying shit about how much bullshit ou Maaikie and co dream up. It adds lots of comedy value to the forum. Hahaha. I just remembered about Morne joining PSG football club. Man, that was funny. Another one was when he was bleating about how Bakkies was  dropped to the bench in favour of Ali Williams. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Bakkies and Ali started the game together. Our very own Juliu s Malema. Maybe he should change his name  to ClevaJuliaas. Eish.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Jun 2014, 16:13
#39
10 Jun 2014, 16:13#39
 Look Bullshitter - if you say Bakkie Botha and Matfield are strong locks - you know shit about rugby.  In their heyday 6 years ago Bakkies and Matfield was good enough - 6 years later they are washed up have beens,   
The fact that the scrumming was particularly bad with Matfield behind Du Plessis and Steenkamp is a fact.   Same applies to that Beast normally strong - also folded at times - particularly when Botha was behind him.  Much better when Flippie came on.   The props change - the situation remains the same.    The one lock was changed - the situation improved.
Those are inconvenient facts.   
Fine _ I think that Meyer will be stubborn and remain with the same tight 5 on Saturday and will lay a bet the same will be the situation.  We will struggle in scrums like it is unbelievable.
He will also stick with the same backline and the same will apply - other than that Roberts and Davies will run through at center like it is unbelievable.  Steyn is a liability at center and Petersen is a recycled wing that will not handle center defense properly.     
              
— END OF THREAD —

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