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FORUM / RUGBY /  The Willemse Performance Situation

The Willemse Performance Situation

Started by clevermike16 REPLIES482 VIEWS· 09 Oct 2018, 07:25
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2018, 07:25
#1
09 Oct 2018, 07:25#1

Bench selection of Willemse


In the first instance I must apologize to all members for a mistake made by me on the issue of the games in which Willemse came from the bench,   I did look at only two tests in which Willemse came from the bench - namely the away test against Argentina and the AB test.   I should have looked at all three test matches he actually was on the bench.  Since I did not look at the home test against Argentina I made a mistake which led to wrong discussion in my part. 


So here is the corrected version:-


First Argentine test      -  cane from the bench at minute 63  = 17 minutes

Second Argentine test  - came from the bench at minute 63  = 17 minutes

AB test                          -  came from the bench at minute 66  = 14 minuites


So in essence Willemse played a role in 3 tests playing for 48 minutes in total.


Comments on Performance


There were a number of accusations made by Mozart, AO and Pakie


in order to make the matter clear and avoid any mistakes creeping in I am going to  quote the basis for attack by the three members involved and deal with the merit of the accusations afterwards:-


Mozart


His comments started with the following:-


"3 Richies's penalty landed in field and luckily bounced into touch.....and if our fullback was in position the game should have ended right there."


"Here's the thing.....Willie was gone because of a head injury assessment. So we send on a rookie flyhalf, who apparently thinks his mission is to attack at all costs."


He then went on to start a new thread on the issue and made an all-out attack on Willemse for being out of position to handle the penalty kick when it was made by Mo'anga.


OA 


"He had the jitters against Argentina, so nothing there. We already knew he can step, so his step against the All Blacks taught us nothing new. Is he a viable test flyhalf backup? We still don't know. Is he a viable fullback backup? We still don't know. We haven't seen him tested under the high ball. We haven't seen his feel for positional play. We know nothing."

  

Her went on making the same "jitters" statement a number of times based entirely on two cases  a wild pass made by Wilemse in the first Argentine test and a kick directly into touch in the first game.


Pakie  


He went further on the "wild pass"  the "jitters" issues  by posting a video clip on the resultant try. 


Merit of the Attacks by the Three Members


There is no argument the incidents did happen - but what was the background of the incidents and was the atatcks on Willemse really justified.


The Mozart attack


What really did happen is that Willemse was coached to play the same way as Le Roux would play when the Springboks were attacking.   When that happens Le Roux is always near the attacking line and not further back.   Willemse was in exactly the same situation where Le Roux would have been under similar circumstances.


Roundabout minute 76 of the test on Saturday - the Springboks was on the attack in the AB's 22 and Willemse was in a position to join the backline attack.   However, what then happened became a problem - it would have been so for any full back under such circumstances.    


Instead of passing the ball to the backline - the pass was made to Mostert (I may be wrong here - it may have been another forward).   Mostert (?) ended up hanging onto the ball and got penalized.   Mo'anga saw all the backline players was part of the attacking line-up and kicked the ball downfield not really aiming for touch- but the ball ended up in touch through bouncing of the ball.


Was the attack on Willemse by Mozart justified?   One can really question the issue as raised by Mozart as reason for an attack on Willemse.   In the circumstances I think that what happened is in fact part and parcel of the standard full back usage by  Erasmus and in the main the system works well for the Springboks in most cases.


If Le Roux was on the field of play at that stage - he was likely to be in the same area where Willemse was based on the game plan of Erasmus as to full back usage in attacking play. 


Nobody in the team foresaw the penalty giveaway that happened and nobody would have been covering for a long kick downfield - so the attack on Willemse  on the basis used by Mozart seems to be unjustified and to a large extent based on really questionable grounds.


The OA and Pakie "Jitters" attacks


The "jitters" attack is based on two incidents, namely -


*  a wild and inaccurate pass made by Willemse to Van Staden; and

*  a kick diretly into touch by Wilemse.


Was it a "wild"  pass made or was it a "skip"  pass attempt that went awry?  Fact is looking at what happened in fact - it is clear that it was in fact an attempted skip pass - the pass was never aimed at Van Staden at all.   


Skip passes are standard play by most players and is a normal attacking norm used by teams - but there is always a danger of intercepts when skip passes are made - but skip passes does not represent "jitters" - rather the opposite.


Then there was a kick directly into touch.   The only such kick I can remember was when Willemse received the ball deep in the Springboks 22 and he made a relieving kick directly into touch.  I think it was a mistake - but I believe that there was uncertainty on the part of Willemse as to whether the pass originated from play inside the Springbok 22 or not.


Based on the two incident mentioned one should ask what "jitters" in matches in fact means.  In essence it means things like knocking on balls passed to players - on poor kicks going nowhere and causing serious problems for the team, etc.


The alleged mistakes were not showing "jitters" at all - fact is it may be the exact opposite.


Summary


It is unfortunate that attacks on players are often based on really dubious grounds and then build on career-defining situations.   Personally -


*   I did apologized  for not looking at the first Argentine test; and


*   I think that member should be careful by making unsubstantiated attacks on players based on incidents they misrepresented on site often enough based on prejudice rather than objective assessment.


What is equally undesirable is attacks on Erasmus which are also of a dubious nature.   

  

                   



 


PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
09 Oct 2018, 08:02
#2
09 Oct 2018, 08:02#2

Your comments towards me and the others while you were in the wrong:

That is weird - Argentina scored NO tries after Willemse came on - so try again - nutcase. There was no thing like you wrote above - self-concocted again.  Are you basically dishonest of just prejudiced? 

I rather believe ESPN than the serial liars Mozart and Pakie.

It took me 2 minutes too see what happened here. A total fabrication and lie to add to it. How low can you lot go?     

Listen I have now and more than enough from lies and deception.

You keep launching one personal attack after another on people without checking your facts first. It's the way you operate on this forum, and have done for years now. So take your lame little apology and stick it up your ass. You're not sorry. You're going to do it again at the first opportunity. This whole bloated essay of a post is a pathetic attempt at saving face.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2018, 09:20
#3
09 Oct 2018, 09:20#3

Now lets get it straight - I did apologize for that mistake of mine and for you to make a statement like you did is certainly questionable.

Fact is the issues raised by you, OA and Mozart as to the performance of Willemse  were discussed in detail and obviously of equal value in this case.   Why did you not respond to those issues also?

Please be objective in that case as well.   If you do not want to respond on that issue - what can one expect from the non-reply?   Would it then be that you were jumping on the bandwagon of an attack on Willemse and on Erasmus without regard to real facts?        


 

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
09 Oct 2018, 09:58
#4
09 Oct 2018, 09:58#4

Show me all the phases Willemse played and point out where he was in control of proceedings. How about that. I made my evaluation based on the totality of what I saw. It isn't an attack, it's an assessment. Grow up. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2018, 10:14
#5
09 Oct 2018, 10:14#5

What is going on here?   You were asked for comments on what was written above as to performance of Willemse and you came abck with nothing at all,   Do you differ about the comments made by me and on what basis do you do so?

Please do not try to avoid the issue by making a vague statement as you did,   You did not indicate any basis for your assumptions at all - so please be clear on what made you make the deductions. you made from what happened.  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2018, 12:27
#6
09 Oct 2018, 12:27#6

Please deal with this matter - silence can be detrimental to your opinion pieces on site.  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Oct 2018, 15:02
#7
09 Oct 2018, 15:02#7
It was Koch who was penalized for holding on the deck.....not Mostert. Why was he holding on the deck? 1 Because he tried to break through the tackle with a second effort instead of safely placing the ball for the next phase. 2 Because the Pod player supporting him Stephanie lost his feet amd actually dragged Koch down. 3 Because Stephanie was on the deck, not there to protect the ball.....he failed in his support role. 4 Because Savea was then able to out-muscle Kolisi over the ball and secure the penalty ...... That's the background. So where was Willemse. He was not in the backline as you suggest....he was 2 metres off the ruck on the blindside. Why would our fullback be in that position with 3 minutes left in the test vs a normal fullback position? Why would he amble back instead of sprint back when the penalty was awarded? .... because he didn't have a clue what the mission was at that point.....to play out the clock. No mature player would have made that mistake ....Willemse wasn't in position to join the backline, he was in position to join the ruck!
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Oct 2018, 15:05
#8
09 Oct 2018, 15:05#8
I do thank you for your Provincial Administration formal report though...hahaha. But why apologize to'members', apologize to the posters who you called 'liars'.
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
09 Oct 2018, 15:19
#9
09 Oct 2018, 15:19#9

Then there was a kick directly into touch.   The only such kick I can remember was when Willemse received the ball deep in the Springboks 22 and he made a relieving kick directly into touch.  I think it was a mistake - but I believe that there was uncertainty on the part of Willemse as to whether the pass originated from play inside the Springbok 22 or not.

A fabrication. Not surprising, since you now suddenly pretend to "remember" events from a test that last night you didn't even know Willemse was involved in.

Was it a "wild"  pass made or was it a "skip"  pass attempt that went awry?  Fact is looking at what happened in fact - it is clear that it was in fact an attempted skip pass - the pass was never aimed at Van Staden at all. 

A weak and dishonest attempt at obfuscation. It was a 7 point error, whatever type of pass it was.

But sure, let's play along. The skip pass theory is bullshit. Van Staden is calling for the pass. He is the target.

The next Bok in line, Am, is so wide that he is not even in the screen as Moroni gathers the ball. How the hell could he have been the intended target of a skip pass?


PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
09 Oct 2018, 15:28
#10
09 Oct 2018, 15:28#10

Merit of the Attacks by the Three Members

No one is attacking Willemse. As far as I can tell everyone has him earmarked as a great flyhalf prospect. If you quit your hysterical knee-jerk responses and actually try to follow a discussion on its merits, all this time wasting can be avoided.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Oct 2018, 16:44
#11
09 Oct 2018, 16:44#11
Ditto that.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2018, 17:25
#12
09 Oct 2018, 17:25#12

You have attacked Willemse and even started a thread on it.    That was clear and the BS is still flowing - showing your lack of rugby knowledge.

I know I am dealing with dishonest people  on site - so keep it up liars - you deserve to be censored constantly.   No use dealing with skunks anyway.      

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
09 Oct 2018, 17:32
#13
09 Oct 2018, 17:32#13

Dishonest? 


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2018, 17:37
#14
09 Oct 2018, 17:37#14

BS skunk time

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
09 Oct 2018, 17:40
#15
09 Oct 2018, 17:40#15

"I know I am dealing with dishonest people"

That after accusing us of lying about Willemse's intercept. These things happen each and every time I post here. 

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
09 Oct 2018, 17:42
#16
09 Oct 2018, 17:42#16
Looks like Auge is dragging me into this “debate”, lol Who could question Daffy?
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
09 Oct 2018, 18:32
#17
09 Oct 2018, 18:32#17


— END OF THREAD —

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