of talk about our emerging young talent and before I say Fok I've heard it all before(Gaffie Du Toit/ Derrick Hougaard) I want to put this question to the board.....how does Taute, Whitehead/ Sadie/ JJ Engelbrecht compare to the talent emerging out of NZ and Oz? Is our talent better than theirs,vice versa or par for the course?
I'd say JJ is a par.....and Taute, Sadie and Whitehead are bogeys. Jordaan may be a birdie, but we need to see more....he has the athleticism.
@Denny
I disagree, our pool of talent is pretty damn awesome.
When last did we have 4 good flyhalves to choose from? ... amongst other things!
Furthermore, the talent pool just got bigger!
My wife had a son a couple of weeks ago!
You should see the kid drop kick, off load, tackle and run!
Its incredible! A fantastic combo of Lomu, Cullen and Carter... with the bulk of Bakkies.
He'll be at Bulls trials in the next couple of weeks if you'd like to check him out!
Flash
When he has a break from all of that and the pair of you have a quiet beer together.....aaaggghh hell what am I trying to say...or what ...that's it.....CONGRATULATIONS!
"My wife had a son a couple of weeks ago!
You should see the kid drop kick, off load, tackle and run!
Its incredible! A fantastic combo of Lomu, Cullen and Carter... with the bulk of Bakkies."
Not yours then? Hahaha....only kidding. What the hell was he offloading Flash, I hope you had protection!
Denny
I think that the Super 15 should be an indication of the talents of youngsters - and that is what I am basing my comments on. Goosen is compared to Aussie and New Zealand talent - on a different planet. No real comparisons available. The same applies to Etzebeth.
Then I have another problem - we have a player like Lambie - who is 21 years old and already an international. he should also be in the category - based on age., not so?
The really good youngsters are to my mind Jordaan, Taute. Coetzee, Elstadt and Malherbe. However, Jordaan and Taute are competing for 13. They are on par with the youngsters from the Aussies and All Blacks
Listening to Sarel speak about not practising passing like he does at the "Tahs was quite interesting....does that explain why our players, specially the older ones had such a poor passing game and does that explain why they would rather crashball instead of passing the pill?
If I had to make a judgement call on the state of our talent in comparison to Oz and NZ I would say that their players have a higher skill level..
Thanks D.
Wow there is a shocker, Moz being negative about our emerging talent - must be fun living in your shoes.
We have the best young talent coming through - NZ and Oz can only dream of having the numbers we do in Kitshoff, Kebble, Malherbe, Coenie, Marcel v/d Merwe, JC Kritzinger, Nkanyane, F.Kirsten, R.de Klerk, C.Visagie, D.Fourie, Mbonambi, Etzebeth, Roux, P. Willemse, R.Botha, Steph du Toit, JA Marais, Bresler, Elstadt, C.Oosthuizen, Carr, Liebenberg, M.Coetzee, Koster, CJ Stander, Kolisi, Arno Botha, J.Potgieter, J.Strauss, Hattingh, v/d Walt, v/Zyl, Duvenhage, Goosen, Jantjies, Lambie, Smit, S.Ebersohn, Whitehead, Taute, Jordaan, F.Venter, Sadie, Howard, J.Serfontein, JP du Plessis, JJ.Engelbrecht, le Roux, Mjekevu, Sithole all coming through
Realistic....you foam at the mouth, but every time we play our B team we get thumped. Very few players on that list will succeed internationally. The obvious candidates are already being discussed....the rest are mostly S15 types.
Wrong, we have never played the B team I would have selected. The likes of Jake and PDV got our B teams completely wrong. Our B teams have at best been our D teams
If I could buy you at my price, and sell you at your price......I could offset the Facebook loss, which thankfully I passed.
Better young talent than NZ, wow - your youngsers must've won their fair share of under 20 RWC titles then....hang on
Shed a tear for Meyer. He has to deal with all these naive expectations. The truth is we have a very good talent pool in SA. But the NZ pool is outstanding as well. The U 20 titles are the only objective measure....but you can't win, Sapp will just say we had the wrong coach or selected the wrong players.
Well Moz, you tell me if we missed a few last year - Kitshoff, Malherbe, Willemse and Marcel Coetzee amongst the forwards, van Zyl and JP du Plessis amongst the backs. As for Theron, do you rate him as a coach
Let me remind you of the history. NZ have won the U 20 Championship for the last 4 years. We haven't even made the final in any year. To stand there and say we have better talent than NZ, is embarrassing.
You really do struggle to grasp reality dont you?.......let me spell it out for you. The Baby Boks last year were missing Kitshoff at 1, Malherbe at 3, Willemse at 5 and Coetzee at flank.....is it starting to sink in yet?
I never said we has better talent coming through 4 years ago, I am talking about right now. We have more young talent coming through right now than Oz or NZ do and by some distance let me tell you. Sadly SA have not had a descent national coach in the past 7 years, so much has been missed.
I get the impression Meyer will not let that happen, the guy has an eye for talent and has already earmarked the likes of Kitshoff, Coenie, Etzebeth, Coetzee, Kolisi, CJ Stander, Goosen, Taute, JJ.Engelbrecht and Lambie as stars of the future. He has invited Bok U20 players like centre Pat Howard, prop Oliver Kebble and lock Steph du Toit to the Bok training camps. The man has his finger on the pulse
Yep pretty much exactly the bilge I expected and predicted.
How about adding in the guys who will still be playing good rugby by the time of the world Cup. Hougaard (24) Frans Steyn (25) and even JP 26.
On te facts are very clear there are thesenior plaeyrs and some class youngsters. Name me a 20 year old prop making an impact like Kitshoff (tiring now understandably), Malherbe, Coenie, WP Nel, Etzebeth, QuintonRoux? Elstadt. Kolisi, Coetzee, Hougaard, Van Zyl, Goosen, Lambie, Jantjes, Frans Steyn, Jordaan, Taute, JP, Mvovo, JJ, Riaan Smit, CJ stander.
Add this to the mature players and nobody can say Meyer does not have a cup briming over. Beast, Greyling, Bisie, Strauss, Liebenberg, Jannie, Mostert, Vermuelen, Schalk, Alberts (he will come back), Sykes, Flip, Spies, Brussouw, Jaque Potgieter, Ashley Johnston, Kam Kan, Vermaak, Morne Steyn, Grant, Jean , de Jong, Jaque Fourie, Ebersohn, Basson, etc etc. Good frontline and back up players to choose from.
Surely one can pick a great match 22 form this lot. Our biggest challenge is the brain power aspect. Can Meyer pull it all together. He has in the past and has input also from Rassie so there is reason to feel optimistic provided political interference doesn't shoot us in the foot.
Best talent set in years. Its being getting better since Jake's time. I say it again, with a bit of luck the Cheetah could be in top 6 - 4 super comp teams of quality. Conclusion Sa rugby is strong right now.
Moffie, I cant help the fact that you are too stupid to grasp the fact that the Baby Boks without Kitshoff, Malherbe, Willemse and Coetzee in the forwards, was half the pack it should have been - if you conclude that their abscence would have made no difference, then you are.......well how can I put it politely...........Moz aren't you tired of getting your arse kicked post after post.........prove me wrong by countering this one.......bet you cant?
There is plenty of talent coming through, but some of you are carrying on as if every player under the age of 22 would automatically walk into any Auz or NZ national team. NZ has just as many good young players coming through the ranks, and no, you don't win 4 U20 titles in a row for nothing. Coaching/team selections may play a part, but you still need talent to pull that off.
Well said bluebok. I agree we have great talent. It doesn't take a genius to see that Etzebeth is the real deal, that Goosen has something special....that Coetzee, Kitshoff and Jordaan have great potential. It does take a little more insight to see that Sadie is not ready, that Mvovo has real weaknesses and that a few Jantjies chip kicks don't make him Dan Carter.
This is an old South African refrain....we have vast talent....but somehow it was all ruined by the coach. The best talent pool in the world doesn't miss the final 4 years in a row.
Selective reading hey Moz. Just answer yes or no. Would last years Baby Bok side been a better side had they had Kitshoff, Malherebe, Willemse, Coetzee and JP du Plessis on board - yes or no?
I have no idea, I never saw them last year. But I'm assuming any coach picks the players he believes will let him win.
Ah of course, Kitshoff and Coetzee have just miraculosuly started playing great rugby this year, last year they were still being incubated!!!!!
