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FORUM / RUGBY /  Thugby spoils the game and brings disgrace to Springboks

Thugby spoils the game and brings disgrace to Springboks

Started by hakwa56 REPLIES874 VIEWS· 21 Sept 2013, 16:13
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HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:13
#1
21 Sept 2013, 16:13#1

 Spiro Zavos

 IN the 17th and 42nd minute of the bruising Test between the All Blacks and the Springboks at Eden Park, the referee, Frenchman Romain Poite, issued Bismarck du Plessis yellow cards. Two yellows, in the arithmetic of rugby, make a red card.

On Monday the IRB issued a statement claiming that "it was incorrect for Poite to issue a yellow card to du Plessis" for the first incident. SANZAR's Judicial Officer Terry Willis, an Australian, supported the IRB saying that the tackle made by du Plessis on Dan Carter "was within the laws of the game". The second yellow card stands. But the red card is now removed from the disciplinary record of du Plessis.

In my opinion, the IRB and SANZAR were wrong about the first yellow card and probably wrong about the second. And as a consequence of these mistakes, a thuggish approach to playing rugby that is detrimental to the enjoyment of the game by the players and spectators has been endorsed. The tackle on Carter was made from an offside position. Commentator Justin Marshall called out: "I do think that shot was high." He retracted this when the incident was shown in slow-motion. The referee, metres away, was in no doubt the hit was illegal. He blew his whistle twice, signalling a serious incident. Carter lay crumpled, holding his shoulder. There was a melee. The TMO was asked to look only at the melee.

 A tackle from an offside position is automatically illegal. When a player commits an illegality, which du Plessis did, and a player is injured or liable to be injured because of the dangerous nature of the tackle, it is virtually automatic a yellow card is handed out. The IRB charter gives the rationale for this: "It is perfectly acceptable … to be seen to be exerting physical pressure on an opponent … but not willfully or maliciously to inflict injury."

Maurice Heemro, a Cape Town player in the 1960s who was made an honorary Springbok in 2001, said of the incident: "Bismarck is a bully and, regardless of whether he used his arms or not, he went into that tackle from an offside position, with the intention of injuring him. It speaks of a cynical and a dirty style of play the Springboks have espoused for a long time."

Just after half-time, du Plessis, who was playing in a dominant mode, smacked his elbow into the throat and chest of Liam Messam. All Blacks coach Steve Hansen said after the Test: "I don't think it's legal to go around and put your elbow on someone's throat. The second one may well have been a straight red, without the first yellow."

The assistant referee who flagged this second offence was the Frenchman, Jerome Garces. He was the referee in a Test in 2012 between Italy and the USA when the American Paul Emerick smashed Luca Morisi before he received the ball. The tackle was legal. But the context in which the tackle was made (like the du Plessis tackle on Carter) was illegal play, which made the tackle illegal and reckless. Emerick was (correctly) given a red card.

What has this to do with the Wallabies? Next weekend they play the Springboks at Cape Town. The referee for the Test is Jerome Garces. He faces the dreadful prospect of trying to ensure that the Bismarckian method of "blood and iron" is kept within the laws of the game. He will be under enormous pressure not to do this from partisan local supporters. Garces knows, too, that he might not get much support from the IRB and SANZAR if he insists, as he has in the past, that foul play is appropriately punished.

The Springboks have the highest number of yellow cards and second-highest number of red cards in the 10 years of the card system. It's time for them to give away the thugby that diminishes their legacy. 

BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:15
#2
21 Sept 2013, 16:15#2

Is Ma Nonu south african ?

IH
IhiClub Pro201 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:18
#3
21 Sept 2013, 16:18#3

I have been reading Spiro articles for years he has a particxular bias against South Africa and I saw this one earlier in the week. bismarxk was not offside at all did he menmtion the commentators having a look at that one on the replay and correcting themselves? No of course not. Does he bring up the Islanders? Or the complete let off of New Zealand players going back years? Or that South Africa are at 5 penalties to a card whereas New Zealand are over 100? It puts things into better perspective when you drag up these inconvenient realities. Fess up Spiro, the Boks were done. Just like France, Just like Argentina in that semi, just like Ireland in that 2nd test last year. If you want to call Bismarck into question then you better include everything else that goes with it. Petulant islanders always play dirty whether they play for fiji, tonga, samoa or new zealand.

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:20
#4
21 Sept 2013, 16:20#4

 Ma Nonu is a dickhead ,thats the difference we point out our boys crap ,too man bok fans prefer to glorify it or try to mitigate it .You cant tell me bismark wouldnt have been happy to injure DC if bhe didnt get carded.Deliberately injuring another player just cos you can ,even if within the laws of the game is not within the spirit of the game.

BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:26
#5
21 Sept 2013, 16:26#5

Deliberately tackling someone hard is part of the game, if you cant handle that how will you handle rucking ? Your contridicting yourself now Wardad. either you are tough enough or your not.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:27
#6
21 Sept 2013, 16:27#6

Zavos............. he should lear the laws of the game first.

 

@Wardad. There are many examples of Kiwis injuring players as well. I have mentioned the Brad Thorn/John Smit one a number of times and every time there is nothing but deafening silence about it. Zip. Not a word. In addition, there was never any sanction against Thorn. Nothing.

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:29
#7
21 Sept 2013, 16:29#7

tough enough for what Buzz?

IH
IhiClub Pro201 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:29
#8
21 Sept 2013, 16:29#8

what about the spear tackle that broke BODs leg in 2005? it was lauded by new zealand. then i think it was in 2008 when a all black speared smit and ended his campaign early. soialo had his fare share alone. when new zealand do thee things then we are told they are just hard men and rugby is a mans game and how street smart they are, reducing rugby to nothing more than a might is right thing. but when its on the other foot its the evil south africans and we need to take measures to ensure that no new zealand be handled like that again. like henry crying to the media when carter was totally closed down by januarie and butch. he called for the refs to literally protect carter more. fugging ridiculous!

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:31
#9
21 Sept 2013, 16:31#9

Ceradyne, we can quote the laws until the cows come home but if Bismarks intent was evil to start of with, no amount of law quoting will change that!

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:34
#10
21 Sept 2013, 16:34#10

What about Smit chopping the FRench captains throat and getting 6 weeks ?those acts are all on record but also on record are far more thuggish acts from the boks which I have never heard any of you admit to ,even with pics of guys gouging eyes in front of you ,deafening silence .

And ihi whats this 100 to 1 and 5 to 1 horse shit ? are you drunk ?

IH
IhiClub Pro201 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:34
#11
21 Sept 2013, 16:34#11

hakwa, it doesnt matter if he wanted to even kill carter. he was onside, he used his arms and wasnt high. if he generated enough force to make carter explode them it still is legal! thats the point. you guys always get lost because of vyour moral reletavism. trying to constantly rationalise everything until you squeeze it into your prefered interpretation. If you have a law, why cant it be applied equaly? its not even that some mistakes are made you lot are completely let off the hook. over 100 penalties to a card and mccaw laughing at the ref are being given his 9th "final warning" what the fug is happeningf to the game? you cant tell me there isnt corruption going on!

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:35
#12
21 Sept 2013, 16:35#12

you got your facts wrong Ihi, BOD did not break his leg! Smit was not spear tackled, he was lifted up by Thorn and then Thorn withdraw his arms and gravity did the rest! Smit wanted to wrestle Thorn and came off 2nd best - watch the replay people before making outlandish statements! 

IH
IhiClub Pro201 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:36
#13
21 Sept 2013, 16:36#13

Wadad it still works both ways. but its very rare a bok gets away with anything. its very rare that a new zealander gets done for even dumping a [player on his head andbreaking his leg. its just plain bias.and the cherry on the cake before the penalty that "won" the world cup new zealand committed three illegal fouls each one card worthy! one of which was a huge swinging shoulder that smashed a frog around the throat. in fact that happened seconds before new zealand won a penalty to "win" that world cup. its not going to make your all black brand very popular and even coaches are starting to talk about it. 

BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:38
#14
21 Sept 2013, 16:38#14

Hakwa, Wardad do you guys wrap tin foil around your heads to stop the CIA reading your brainwaves ? Because it sounds like your really into conspiracy theories. Bismarck and the evil intent, thats almost funny. what concerns me is that i think you believe that. Wardad wants rucking, but it cant be too hard.

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:39
#15
21 Sept 2013, 16:39#15

Again not one word about your guys ,not one .And again where the hell do you get 100-1 and 5 to 1 ??? are you stupid or high or what ? where did ypou get that shit from ?outta your butt ?

Still no condemnation of any of your boys ,I have said before I have no time for Hore or Nunus crap or anyone from anywhere who do this garbage . 

Silence still from you guys.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:40
#16
21 Sept 2013, 16:40#16

The law that I am referring to is the so-called offside issue. Or are you once again going to try and convince me that Du Plessis tackled Carter from an offside position.

 

 

As dor the so-called intent, show me any prove of that. Anything other than your convenient accusation of intent. You guys are just up in arms because it is your little princess who got injured, and as expected, the Brad Thorn one is brushed aside again. There are and has been as many Thugs in NZ as there are anywhere else. The first reaction of the likes of Justin Marshall was that it was a thumping tackle. Compare that with Nonu on numerous occasions and combined with the pathetic excuse by your coach that he preforms those tackles to protect his so-called injured shoulder.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,297 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:41
#17
21 Sept 2013, 16:41#17

 Eye gouging, Biting,hiting someone from behind and high tackles and spear tackles are dangerous and unsporting conduct

 

As for most of the rest, it is handbag stuff.

Its a mans game, and If fans do not want to watch this, then as PDV said they should go watch ballerina swan lake or something.

A good punch up helps the game develop into a showdown.

 

BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:41
#18
21 Sept 2013, 16:41#18

Wardad, your unravelling man.

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:42
#19
21 Sept 2013, 16:42#19

 Not a friggin word eh ? Still not one single bok fan condemns by name any of the disgusting behaviour like from shalk burger .

And that arsehole PDV was defending deliberately blinding a man , name me ONE sport where thats ok .

Still no word of condemnation for any bok from any of you.

Silence 

Deafening.

IH
IhiClub Pro201 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:43
#20
21 Sept 2013, 16:43#20

hakwa, thorn  lifted smit up turned him and dropped him. straight red. end of discussion. and im glad you broght up the replayu because i saw that what started that incident was a throat tackle on jantjes. so two severe fouls by new zealand but the all blacks came away with the penalty. great stuff!

And on BOD yeah, it wasnt this tackle that broke a leg it was another, but still he disolcated his shoulder and moissed the rest of the series.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/international/4618309.stm
 

wardad south africans wanted to run schalk out of the country after the gouge. i dont get your angle.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,297 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:45
#21
21 Sept 2013, 16:45#21

 Schalk Burger was aquited from the eye gouging citing. If you accept the verdict this means that he did not eye gouge.

The IRB also took into consideration his immaculate record in rugby.

 

Schalk did get found guitly of reckless play. He was lying on his back not looking in the direction of the player when he put his hand in the face of an opposition player lying flat on his back as well. 

If you get accused of a crime and are aquited, this makes you innocent of that crime.

 

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:46
#22
21 Sept 2013, 16:46#22

 The boks have the highest number of yellow cards and the 2nd highest number of red cards! Read the above article! What does that tell you? Something is either not being processed in the mind OR it is has been processed but it is not coming through!

I disagree with Spiro - thugby does not diminish your legacy, it enhances it!

I agree with Spiro - the IRB and SANZAR's Judicial Officer Terry Willis, an Australian, are wrong! and I hope his Wallabies Team reap what he has sown! You looking for an IRB Conspiracy - here is one! Shameful!

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:49
#23
21 Sept 2013, 16:49#23

 Ihi you think your boys get 1 card per 5 penalties and NZ 100-1 ,and yet I still have yet to hear you bok fans condemn ANY bok for ANY grubbiness . I am still dfisgusted wth Richard Loe and think he should never have played again .

And why do you think the lions came up with the 66 call ,just for the hell of it ?

IH
IhiClub Pro201 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:50
#24
21 Sept 2013, 16:50#24

hakwa the boks are at 5 penalties to a yellow card, australia are at 8 and new zealand now over 100. So that point is invalid. because if new zealand were carded like the rest of the world they would have more than anyone! its shameful how blinded new zealanders are you lot expect special treatment constantly.

IH
IhiClub Pro201 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:52
#25
21 Sept 2013, 16:52#25

wardad im not va south african just another person who has had enough of new zealands immunity from the law. for every incident you want to bring up on any other non-new zealander i can bring up equal from new zealand or worse. thats a fact. the only thing is that new zealand dont get penalized. how about this trivia, new zealand hiring a boxer to lay in some cheap shots back in the mid 19th century. great stuff but im sure you gopt an excuse for that too.

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:53
#26
21 Sept 2013, 16:53#26

read the above article Ihi! and bring data to back up your claims!

BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:53
#27
21 Sept 2013, 16:53#27

It has been condemned , years ago, by many. now shall i trawl through history and give you some examples of bad All Black behaviour ? or would you just want to issue a blanket apology ? Remember against the British lions , Kevin mealamu, was it his spear tackle that ended things for Wilkinson ?

 

pot , kettle

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:55
#28
21 Sept 2013, 16:55#28

 IHI you are flat out lying ,where did you get that carp from ? I did the stats for this years RC using the SANZAR and 2 other websites .So I;m calling bullshit on you matey.

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:58
#29
21 Sept 2013, 16:58#29

 Hi cloudy ! 

Ihi ,this is how little you know the " Boxer " you refer to was All Black Kevin Skinner who was allready an AB but pulled from retirement in 1956! not tyhe 19th century ! and it was a response to the bok props deliberate  crippling of a young kiwi prop .

IH
IhiClub Pro201 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:59
#30
21 Sept 2013, 16:59#30

Feast your eyes on this. The extended stats over several years beefs up their bias further.

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/dwyers-view-all-blacks-2010/

You did the stats? do stats include incidents not recorded as illegal? how about Thornes throat tackle on Jantjes and then his tip tackle on Smit? are those in your statistics?

So again, the ends justify the means? so you either are not illegal like the boks or just as illegal. you decide, hahah!

Heres another one I pulled up. Carl Hayman punching a romanian in 2007s world cup on the same day that schalk was nearly band for four games for colliding with a player in the air. yep the hole gets deeper.

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:59
#31
21 Sept 2013, 16:59#31

 Buzz, you need to get your facts straight - Mealamu, Wilkinson, which planet? otherwise you're getting hysterical therefore take your medications and go ly down!

 

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
21 Sept 2013, 17:03
#32
21 Sept 2013, 17:03#32

 And burger was cited for attacking a SA touchie wasnt he ? and if I recall he was still cited for unsporting conduct in the eye gouging .And bob dwyer ? Pfffft your an idiot mate you call that unbiased ? check the sanzar and IRB stats not what sooky dwyer has to say the old gimp.

Fool.

IH
IhiClub Pro201 posts
21 Sept 2013, 17:05
#33
21 Sept 2013, 17:05#33

if richie got what he deserved he would be decapitated.there are several vids on the internet detaliling his illegal play in the final. i dont blame rougerie for being frustrated by more bias against his team because new zealand simply HAD to "win" the world cup. rougerie bamboozled smith in that final and smith ended up missing 100% of his tackles. but a few swinging shoulders to throats (literally) and the ref to hault momentum makes all the difference. the rest is history.

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
21 Sept 2013, 17:05
#34
21 Sept 2013, 17:05#34

Hey cloudy ! Any more eye gouging in here and it will be the blind ihi leading the blind rest of the rugger world.

And yup Richie couldnt be arsed eh IHI your just another aussie whacker troll boy narent you ? not a fact in that head of yours ,you couldnt even get the right CENTURY when reffering to Skinner .

Fool ,haha charade you are .

IH
IhiClub Pro201 posts
21 Sept 2013, 17:09
#35
21 Sept 2013, 17:09#35

typical new zealand response "i dont like it so its wrong" hahahahahahaha

you lot decided to drag up all kinds of dirt and had your own dirt dug up too, but you have no answer for it. great stuff. heres another.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVuomr8zebg


 

BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
21 Sept 2013, 17:11
#36
21 Sept 2013, 17:11#36

was that the same game where Richie hit Morgan Parra in the head " accidently ".

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
21 Sept 2013, 17:12
#37
21 Sept 2013, 17:12#37

 IHI you have shown your true colours ,not even the bok fans would countenance "decapitating " someone for supposedly being on the wrong side of a ruck .

Heres what I ask all people like you ,if Richie was in your team would you think differently  would you still think he was a cheat if he was a bok or wally ? Dont lie either cos it will be patently obviuos .Are you rednecks sillier twin by any chance ?

IHI not one actual fact from you ,got caughtn out telling porkies eh you LIAR !!! 

You-tube pffft whats next farce book ? 

Yeah cloudy ,tangi weto is about it ,no reply to anything just crap ihi plucked outta his arse .

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
21 Sept 2013, 17:20
#38
21 Sept 2013, 17:20#38

 Yeah cloudy spot on there ,he's an out and out liar ,the jealousy is immense .

And still not 1 bok fan has said that they think any particular bok has ever done anything wrong ,I have pointed out ABS who have but all I get is " Oh when that happened we all thought...." but nothing from their own keyboard to personally admit that ANY bok commited foul play .

Not a word. 

They just cant admit it ,its just " Oh but so and so AB did blah blah blah as if that mitigates anything ? 

BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
21 Sept 2013, 17:20
#39
21 Sept 2013, 17:20#39

Wardad, McCaw wouldnt make our team as we have better loose forwards at the moment. Youngsters who wont be crocked by the WC. :-P

BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
21 Sept 2013, 17:23
#40
21 Sept 2013, 17:23#40

Good God Wardad, you want an apology for every incident that has occured ? or just the ones that suit you. Ok here we go, sorry we have had some dirty players its a crime and when they deserve it they should receive the full brunt of the law.

Now your turn.

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