Tim Swiel - sad to see

 Swiel keeps options open

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I wrote a piece last year about how a change to South Africa’s eligibility rules might influence the choices that young players make, relating to national under 20 selection. In short, SARU’s decision to designate the SA Under 20 side as the “second side”, meaning that any player who represents South Africa at under 20 level will thus immediately be barred from ever representing another country at senior level, might have the unintended consequence of player opting to keep their options open while they are still young.

According to Beeld’s Stephen Nell, that’s exactly what young WP flyhalf Timmo Swiel has opted to do. Swiel qualifies to play for England due to holding a British passport and is apparently loathe to forever tie himself to rugby in South Africa by playing for the Baby Boks at this year’s IRB Junior World Championship. He has thus withdrawn himself from contention for the side.

I wonder how many other young players might opt to do the same thing? Anyway, the writing appears to be on the wall here and knowing the fickle and often petty way in which players are selected for teams in the republic, Swiel may as well pack his bags tomorrow, since I doubt he’ll easily be selected in South Africa again.

Nell further reports that lock Quinn Roux, despite WP Rugby’s assurances to the contrary, will not return to the Cape this year and has instead opted to sign on for two more years in Dublin with Leinster.

 I find it massively disappointing that Quinn Roux is not returning - what a complete an utter idiot Coetzee is for overlooking this guy all of last year in favour of the below average and physically not up to it de Kock Steenkamp.

I had a feeling Roux would extend his contract. Hell he has harldy played for Leinster as he got injured soon after arriving, but made enough of an impression to have his contract extended for two years.

All I can say is thanks Coetzee for stuffing that one up - what an ignorant coach

Saffex

I am very said to see what happened in the Swiel case.   For me he is really the ball sense kid.  Probably has dual citizenship and may like Rathbone tries his luck elsewhere.   Not so sure Rathbone was not the reason for the SARU decision..

I always said that Coetzee is probably the worst coach in SA - although he has some realy stiff competition from Meyer and Ludeke.   That said Coetzee's selection capacity is near to zero and he was largey responsible or the dead backline play of the Stormers last year,   Anybody that prefer De Jongh to De Allende or Howard must be the worst. 

 This is terribale news. If the Youtube movie of him is anything to go by, he has the potential to be better than Goosen and Lambie. This would be a disaster if he signs for England

If Swiel does go play for England, I wish him the worst

Snapster why wish him the worst. The guy has to make the most of his rugby career  financially speaking. Just remember with the discrimnation against white males here in SA  it is a huge risk for many to stay here.

They earn very much more overseas and in fact it is remarkable that so many stay in SA. I wonder how long du Plessis, Howard and Van der Heever will stay? This overseas issue is gathering momentum?

You yourself work in England so get real please snapster!

Can't see any sense in wishing the lad's career choice, the worst, surely he has the right to decide what's best for himself and if he faces an uncertain future in the land of his birth, I won't hold it against him if he decides to head north.

Because I am so passionate about rugby and SA rugby in particular, nothing irritates me more than seeing our young talent leave. I dont mind it when 28 year olds pack their bags and head for greener financial pastures, but when I see 20 year olds leave it really gets under my skin.

So no, I would be lying to the kid and myself if I wished him well, for I dont want to see him play for an English club and possibly play for England. Whites dominate the SA rugby sides so he cant use that as an excuse, he has just as much of an opportunity to play for the Boks as Goosen and Lambie have. At the age of 19, it should not be about the money it should be striving to make the Stormers side and push for a Bok spot. The little wanker is effectively turning his back on an opportunity to play for his country and for that reason I wish him the worst.

You cant equate me leaving to live in England as an ordinary citizen with a kid blessed with the skills to represent his country and earn a good enough wage in the process. Frans was the model, he made an impact at a young age, won his Bok cap, left as a youngster and remained in contention for the Boks while earning big money. He has now come home for a few years and will no doubt return to the NH at some point to end in style financially. That is the way to do it.

It irritates the hell out of me seeing youngsters like CJ Stander, Josh Strauss, JP du Plessis, Swiel, Quinn Roux, Carl Wegner and Ettienne Oosthuizen turn their backs on the opportunity to play for the Boks - says alot about those youngsters in a way.

Seeing Barritt, Fourie, Botha and Stevens in an England jersey, Strauss in an Irish and Rathbone and Vickerman in an Oz jersey cuts to the core. I cannot wish these guys well as they have turned their backs on representing their country.

The only one I sympathise with is KP Pietersen as he got frustrated with not being selected and rightly decided to offer SA the middle finger.

May Swiel never make it as a rugby player, may he always be too small to make the grade, may he come over here with much hope and find no favour. Hash but true - I am very passionate about this point. It makes stuff all difference to Swiel, but I wont be cheering him on

Saff my bru..Bitter and twisted comments there boet..

As an "ordinary" citizen as you called yourself, I dont think its appropriate to comment on such issues and especially not in the manor you did. You wish not just bad but the worst on the kid. Shame man.

What if he knows something you dont know? He never said he did not want to play for the Boks, he is simply keeping his options open and not committing to a possibility. Under 20 rugby is not Bok rugby. I am sure if the Stormers select him and then Meyer does for the Boks, he will play there but he can see Lambie and Goosen are both just kids themselves so the future is not looking so bright all of a sudden. He will probably do his best to take their place but he can not commit to a maybe and ruin his future for a hit out at under 20 level.

Very wise decision from a man aspiring to play at the ultimate level and probably dreams of playing in a World Cup. How many under 20 guys actually make it all the way? If Timo thinks he has a chance, he needs to do whats best for him. These guys only have a short time to make there money and he can spend 3 years trying his utmost in SA, end up getting injured and fall by the wayside as so many do.

I am passionate but SA rugby but your comment borders on sick not just passion..You better than that Saff ;-)

You are Saffex. You are bitter and twisted, your'e a know it all in your own mind but you really a "know f*^k all" and you wouldn't know how to select a team if it slapped you in the face!

You should treat people you meet in real life the way you talk over the net. You would spend most your life with frozen veggies on your eye!

How can you say CJ Stander was "on the brink" of Bok selection? 

The man was in and out of the Bulls team and didn't even hold down a starting spot in the Super rugby side. He is a good player but those are the facts. He is a young guy but how does he know that he is not going to be injured seriously in his next game? If SA rugby is not looking after him, he has to find an employer that will. Much like you in normal life. If your firm doesn't appreciate you, you move on to one that will!

Unfortunately, rugby is professional now and as much as its these athletes passions, it is their job too. They only have a decade or just over (if they are that good and lucky enough) to make their fortunes and set themselves up for life after rugby.

Like Beeno said yesterday, its very rich coming from you seeing as you live and work in the UK. Your rebuttle is that you are a "normal" guy. Well what are these guys?? Transformers?? Its their job. You claim that you played at such a high level so why didn't you stay in SA and have a "passionate" crack at making the Boks side ;-) ha ha yo are unreal!

Dont wish bad on people. Especially people you dont know. Its a sick, bitter and twisted thing to do. Timo could be as passionate as hell about SA rugby but these guys have agents and it is very likely a business call. With the hurdles he has to overcome in SA and the politics that kills our rugby, it is probably the correct call too.

I await your "blow up" response where you act the tough guy over the net but just know Saff, we all now know your true, bitter and twisted personality. Not that we didn't before. Any man with as warped a view on rugby and team selections as you have is very likely twisted in more ways than 1 ;-)

 Watched some Timo Swiel highlights on YouTube - he was so good he was making the other players look like schoolboys - no, wait - they were schoolboys. 

 Boktwat, so do you think that because the average Ludeke decided to play Dewald and Jacques Potgieter ahead of CJ last year that these two are better players and for that reason Ludeke had it right in leaving CJ on the bench.

Id say CJ was close to Bok selection given he and Arno Botha trained with the Bok squad, leading to Botha eventually being included in the squad - get it stringbean?

CJ was hardly being discarded by the Bulls by playing off the bench, hell he was 22 and making his way into the starting side, so no reason for him to feel insecure.

There is a big difference between me and a pro rugby player you ignorant twat. If I was CJ's right now, I would be playing for the Bulls and striving to make the Bok side. I would not be turning my back on an opportunity to play for my country safe in the knowledge that I was being paid a good wage as a pro rugby player in SA and that the potential to earn more was only a few seasons away, once I had given it my all in trying to make the Bok side.

I dont wish Swiel bad as a person, I just hope that if he chooses England he fails as a rugby player, much like I did Rathbone when he turned his back on SA. There is no way in hell I could wish a potential Bok well, playing for another country - goes against the grain - get it you ignorant stringbean?

More abuse from Dave..YAWN!! Stringbean that will crush you thats for sure.

CJ was good, but he was not on the brink of being a Bok regular. If he was, he would not have left. He knows more about CJ Stander than a short, fat bloke from the provinces and he did not like something there and got out.

Dave, I proved to you that I played premier div club rugby here in NZL and in Durban. Collegians would ultimately feed to the Sharks in Vodacom cup, Currie cup and Super 15 level if you are good enough to make it. ECB in NZL would feed to North Harbour ITM cup if you are good enough. Now I was not good enough to take the next step unfortunately but you said you played at a level "much higher" than me. So tell me Dave, how is it that you are "much higher" yet there is a big difference between you and a pro? You see Dave, exposed again! You are not correct in the buddy buddy!

Dave there is also a big difference between me and you. I am tall, dark, handsome and pretty well built. You are short, fat, pasty and did I mention fat? Once again, things I can prove that you not willing to and cant!

CJ was overlooked by the coaches and they favoured Jacques Potgieter over him..That is my exact point. He knew it was time to leave as he is a better player but being messed around. He doesnt have 4 or 5 years to wait until Potgieter is done or considered useless!

 You hope a young man fails as a rugby player if he chooses England because SA can not accommodate him..What a bitter and twisted prick! We wish him all the best if that is his choice because SA cant offer him a future! Besides Dave, who is he gona replace? Goosen or Lambie who you think so much of..U mal bra!

Look stringbean, you dont chuck in the towel as a 22 year old, you keep fighting for that starting spot at the Bulls shortly followed by a spot with the Boks. CJ is a great talent and would have easily made the Bok side within 2 years. You dont bleat about being messed around as a 22 year old, you take what you can get.

Did I not inform you that my rugby playing days were cut short by a shoulder injury, stringbean? I know the lift does not go all the way to the top, but hell man, how thick are you?

Handsome are you - wow you could have fooled me - your profile pick looked like an anorexic dragqueen

If thats what I looked like, then I am still a couple steps up on you and that embarrassing pic you still running.

No Dave, you not getting away from this one. You said along the lines of, I played at a level a lot higher than you stringbean. I wouldn't even take the field with those halfwits you play with. Its beneath me.

That was when I told you that I played premier div. You did not say, "I COULD have played at a level higher than you if not for my shoulder!" you said, "I PLAYED at a level much higher than you!"

So with your playing days cut short, that means that you were pro before it happened or are you retracting that.

TOO EASY DAVE and you bang on about Moz being "exposed" as a liar..Ha ha filthy dog!

Stringbean, what are you beating your chest about now - I doubt you can even peel a banana. As for exposing me, bloody hell for a start there is nothing to expose and if there was, I reckon Beenkop would do a better job of it.

You have already been exposed by a fellow poster regarding the pathetic level you play right now - so me tying my boot laces back in the day would probably exceed your current level of bum clutching nancyboy exploits - you must be so proud.

What do your team mates call you - Brenda or is it Beauty?

YAWN..Saff, please, stick to the facts. My exposing of you is listed clearly above. Can you please explain what you meant. All of a sudden you use that word PROBABLY but that was not the case Saff. You said you could guarantee me that you played at a higher level.

ECB. Premier club rugby team on the North Shore. In a competition with about 9 other clubs. 10 clubs in total Top 4 make the semis. We did not make the semis and finished 7th.

Just because the Force or Lions battle in the Super 15 and finish bottom of the table, does that mean they are not a super 15 team or are a team of NANCYBOYS playing at a PATHETIC level? Someone has to finish first and someone has to come last. Thats how it is. Many factors like coaching, injuries and the likes can determine that. You still following Dave? There have been years that the club has won the competition. Many years.

Stick to the facts Dave. You are making this too easy buddy!

 It would be a bit of a stretch me guaranteeing that by my mere bootlace tying that I would exceed your level of play......but hell ok, if you insist. I presume me tying my bootlaces would have been a little intimidating for a bunch of fairies.

Look no need to try justify the shit level you play at, I am just going by a New Zealanders take on this site.

Maybe you should do some research and not listen to others. Same goes for you knowledge on rugby. Do a bit of research before you say things, select teams or wish bad on people because you will find that you are always wrong.

Why dont you google the club or find out a bit about their history rather than listen to a guy who loved to hate me?

You can dance around it as much as you like but I exposed you, you "self-proclaimed" rugby pro. Ha ha what a joke. You cant come back from that one Dave! Its in black and white and now I got you dancing..Or what is it you say..Keep paddling!!! Ha ha

Stringbean, the only thing you ever expose is your stupidity.

I did google your club and said as much, it looked like a field with a garden shed slapped on the side of it. 

It was then that our fellow poster told us what a useless sad excuse you bunch are and what a pathetic low level you play at. And your counter to that is that he hates you - ah shame, you poor little boy, I wonder why that is - could it be as a result of your warm engaging personality......you are a people's person after all!!!

Simple answer. Myself and Brycy rubbed each other up the wrong way. He was pro kiwi and kept saying yarpies and I am pro SA and let him know that. He didnt like me from the start and vice versa so we both went against whatever the other said whether it was right or wrong.

We dont seem to be doing that to each other anymore and actually respond in the name of rugby to some posts. I asked Brycy if he had played for Bays or even knew of them intimately as he is not from the area. I asked if he would make the team and I never got a response and that was the end.

You see Dave, its easy to talk and not back it up. I am a fan of backing it up and thinking before I talk which you clearly are not a fan off.

Remember Dave, NZL and especially North Shore as not as big as places in SA. Collegians was in an area of millions of people. The shore has way less than 100 000 people. Things are not as big here as they are in SA. ECB has a decent sized clubhouse below the main field. They have grass embankments on the one side of the field and a grand stand the other. This is more than I can say for Collegians or rovers in Durban but you wouldn't know that. Its just a rugby club. I never have pretended to be a pro like you playing in the big time. Whats your argument? You getting sidetracked from being exposed as a nothing liar!

Speaking as probably the only English person here, I would like to stress that I am heartily sick of players arriving on these shores and declaring that they will play for my country, after showing their disloyalty by turning their backs on their own country. Quite frankly it's a disgrace and I hope he doesn't play for my country at any point in the future. I have also not heard of any English team wanting to employ him in any case. So, maybe this whole episode will backfire on the player and it will simply be yet another show of breathtaking arrogance. I hope so.

As for the comments regarding NZ teams, my sister and brother in law have just moved to Wellington and her daughter and boyfriend to Bay of Plenty. My nephew is still here in England and plays for one of the teams at the club in Kettering, I don't think it's the first team. He has, however, been asked to go over to play at my sister's local club which, she is told,  is a feeder club for the All Blacks......being coached by my sister's bank manager. Many a tall tale comes out of NZ, particularly about Rugby. But, if they feel my nephew is of good enough standard to walk into a team at a " feeder club for the AB's " then I would be concerned !!

I've had the pleasure of knowing many players over the years, I find the ones with something to brag about rarely mention anything at all, and that goes for the NZ players too.

Becs, can you elaborate on what you mean and where this post comes from?

I cant see how a club can be a feeder to the AB's? The super rugby unions and provinces certainly are but I am not sure about a club. A premier club here will be a feeder to the unions as that is where the talent is identified but you would have to be an exceptional talent to be missed by your provincial union and play for the AB's. Its a lot like in SA. The Unions identify talent at premier club level and grow them from there.

I know this because the club I played for had 3 guys only that represented North Harbour in ITM cup. Fullbanck/Flyhalf  Cody Rei (played for NZ u20 and Taranaki prior to moving up) and Irwin Finau. He was a lock/loose forward. I was one of those that were not considered for the next level as far as I know but I do know that guys like Cody and Irwin had to play a minimum of 4 games for their club to be elligible to play ITM cup for their union. Not like SA where the Sharks players are wrapped in cotton wool prior to the Currie cup and Super rugby tournaments. They have to have club affiliation and play those minimum games. If they dont, they are not elligible for selection.

As far as the competition at club level goes, I will say that it was much stiffer competition in SA. Players were bigger and more of them. I must remember though that I have not seen the club boys in Christchurch or even Auckland central. I was in the North Auckland club scene as I live on the North Shore of Auckland. Auckland is stronger than North Harbour in the ITM cup too so that is probably testament to the competition they have over there. On the North Shore, I would say teams like Collegians and Rovers from SA would dominate. Cant reference Auckland and Christchurch.

Bragging is something you need to speak to your mate Saffex about. Hell, the man was pro and we didnt even know ;-) I for one have never tried to make out that I was better than the level I played at. I simply was not and that was where my career in rugby stopped. In Durban I played with a few guys that have gone on to represent the Sharks in Carl Bezuidenhout (Pumas now) and Johan Snyman (playing in Europe now) but I was never fortunate enough to have my career ended by Hennie Le Roux.

PS Becs..Dont hate on the Saffas. If it was not for us, the English would not have a cricket team and only half a rugby team ;-) You cant say we arrogant when your selectors and managers are poaching our guys. They do the same to NZL and Aussie guys.

I have been thinking about the Swiel issue and there is one thing that bothers me and that the kid should have borne in mind.   Swiel is a huge talent and a ball sense wiz kid.   He is a runner and strategic player.

The question really is - will his style of play fit in with NH playing strategies?   In the NH hemisphere environment  his style of play is not in evidence and they have the slow kicking dolts system.  Morne Steyn would fit in excellently - but will Swiel do so and advance beyond playing on club level?

I doubt it very much - he is small in stature and the heavy grounds will not fit his kind of play.  I am not sure whether he would get a decent contract from even small clubs - and he may have made a mistake in doing what he did.   My own suspicion is that it will not work out the way he thought about it and he may  yet live to regret what he did.

Mike, Boks play a pretty boring brand of rugby too. We are the closest thing the SH has to a NH team. Aus and NZ matches are always a lot more exciting than SA vs NZ. We have a full on arm wrestle with them and usually the team who gets on top in the forwards will win. Aussies dont have the pack so they have to run the ball and NZL look to run too. Much better spectacle between those 2 teams.

I love SA and I want us to win every game but you got to agree, we play a boring brand and Jake + Eddy were looking to change that. We would have dominated forwards and back play under them!

Swiel will be coached out of his natural flair in 2 seconds if Meyer gets hold of him. Look at Lambie. Meyer has changed that kid and I cant see that natural flair he had coming through. Its supposed to be called "a player maturing" but I think its bullshit. Lambie should be left to express himself as he did with the Sharks in 2011!! Meyer is bringing the Bulls shit with him. Morne Steyn started as a 15 and he used to look to run in his early days. Bulls rugby killed that oke and thats what Meyer is.

boklogic

I agree with you 100% -  our coaches are the worst enemy of attacking rugby imaginable.   Meyer is like that and so is Coezee. 

Meyer has gone on a campaign to coach rugby flair out of Lambie and in the past two games he actually was dismally poor in that respect.   Kick the ball away and in cases where he passed the ball - Steyn killed it by crashballing. 

It is a tragedy and is putting us back to the 1900's insofar as rugby performances are concerned.   Correction - it is not to the 1900's because we had some decent backline players then - it is the rugby stone age that is applicable here.

Rugby is a profession and like all professions it is the individuals choice that takes priority and must be respected. The time span is very short and there are high risks involved. Nobody belongs to a country that has very little if any concern for the individual if things go pear-shaped.

Are you serious Saffex or are you just trying to bait the bull?

I find it bizarre that an ex-pat can wish this young man ill...this is not nice,indeed perverse.

Seb try catch a wake up. There is a big difference between me being an ex-pat and being a talented rugby player having the potential to play for your country and in the process earn a good wage playing in SA.

Damn right is wish him the worst on the playing field if he turns his back on SA. No bait in that. I will never support a traitor

Stringbean, you could not expose me for anything as you are too stupid.

When did I ever say I played pro rugby? I merely said the level I played at was higher than the level you play now and that started at school level.

I dont care why Brycy dislikes you - all I am interested in is the fact that he said that the level you currently play at is piss poor