FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  Time to change things

Time to change things

Started by Saffolk 26 REPLIES350 VIEWS· 29 Sept 2014, 16:27
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Sept 2014, 16:27
#1
29 Sept 2014, 16:27#1

Its not working with the old farts......we can bang on all we like about Matfield joining the line and effecting a pass or taking the odd line-out ball, but reality is we need locks who are able to do all those things and also make an impression physically.

 

Matfield does not provide an edge in the line-outs or kick-offs as he used to do, he provides the same standard of play as any other lock in these departments.

 

We need a Bok tightfive that will impose themselves physically......Matfield falls well short here......and these days Jannie is proving a nightmare defensively. While tackling is not a primary role for a prop, his poor defence is costing us.

 

We have a more than capable replacement in Marcel v/d Merwe for Jannie and for Matfield we have more than one option to take over and provide some much needed grunt. Willemse is the prime candidate here.......with Lood a great bench option. Lood is still to find his true feet at test level, game time off the bench will provide that. He is a far better long term option than Bakkies. Move Etzebeth to 5 and play Willemse at 4.......you could not ask for more grunt than that.

 

We also need a true bruiser at 7 in the Alberts mould. Oupa is a useful enough player but not the brute we seek. There are options here in Jacques du Plessis, Elstadt, Rhodes and the ever improving Ettienne Oosthuizen of the Sharks. My choice would be man mountain du Plessis.

 

Imagine this for a Bok pack:

 

1.Beast 2.Bismark/Strauss 3.M.v/d Merwe 4. Willemse 5. Etzebeth 6. Coetzee 7. du Plessis 8. Vermeulen

 

In the backs, Hougaard while not perfect, was a far better option at 9 than Pienaar ever was. It was a great start to a starting spot for the man, winning the MOM in the process. Nice to see a 9 running it instead kicking the damn ball away. Reinach is the perfect bench 9.

 

At 12 Jean at best is solid, we see no breaks, no creativity, just an old man crashing it up. Move Jan to his rightful spot at 12 and bring in the likes of de Allende for an extended run at 13. de Allende was huge in the S15 and his physicality will come to the fore at test level. Its obvious JJ has been discarded and wont get a look in again.

 

Has Habana come to the end of his test journey......he like Jean looks shot. Get JP back in the starting 15, with Senatla pushing once he is over his injury.

 

Pollard is good at 10 and Lambie a perfect sub, now that Goosen is in France.

 

So the Bok side should be:

 

15. Willie 14. JP 13. de Allende 12. Serfontein 11. Hendricks 10. Pollard 9. Hougaard 1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. M.v/d Merwe 4. Willemse 5. Etzebeth 6. Coetzee 7. J. du Plessis 8. Vermeulen

 

16. Strauss 17.Nkanyane 18. Coenie 19. Lood 20. Carr 21. Reinach 22. Lambie 23. JJ

SH
Shezza
Pro2,471 posts
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
29 Sept 2014, 17:19
#2
29 Sept 2014, 17:19#2
The only senior player that I want out of the Boks is Jannie Du Plessis, for the past 2 seasons he has missed an incredulous amount of tackles and constantly argues with the ref. 
I would take Bakkies out of the squad once Pieter-Steph is back and I'd include atleast one player from the Lions front row. De Klerk would most definitely replace Pienaar, but I'm still a massive fan of The General (Du Preez). 
I'm also a big supporter of Whiteley, we're ridiculously blessed in the looseforward department but Meyer does need to get rid of some drift wood in Alberts.
If I picked a squad of 28 it would be very difficult as I would end of leaving so many talented players out in certain positions.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Sept 2014, 17:58
#3
29 Sept 2014, 17:58#3
 This is the same team you would have nominated if we lost Sapp. That tells one everything one needs to know.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Sept 2014, 19:09
#4
29 Sept 2014, 19:09#4

Yeah because it is a better team you fool......we need to rid ourselves of the passengers in order to compete against the Kiwi's.

 

Losing to Oz is unacceptable, but losing to NZ every time is insulting......the Kiwi's will be laughing all the way to the try line with centre Victor on board  

AJ
Arthur John
Pro1,748 posts
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
29 Sept 2014, 19:29
#5
29 Sept 2014, 19:29#5
 Saffex I do like you selection except for Connie. I would start with Strauss and name him the Captain.
Although it is early days perhaps include props like du Toit to get the exposure and feel of test rugby.

MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Sept 2014, 19:35
#6
29 Sept 2014, 19:35#6
Just one small detail, we didnt lose to Oz as you so rabidly predicted. We thrashed them, and short of some very bent reffing we had them beaten in Oz as well. Get your facts straight. 
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Sept 2014, 20:27
#7
29 Sept 2014, 20:27#7

Moffie we lost to Oz, had stuff all to do with the ref........we should not have lost to Oz at all and we should be challenging NZ......we wont with the current team laden with passengers. Thrashed them my arse, we were losing with 10 min to go.

 

Get it?

 

  

SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Sept 2014, 20:28
#8
29 Sept 2014, 20:28#8

Nope AJ, am a big fan of Coenie, he stays and Bismark is better than Strauss

 

Am all for du Toit being included. Would happily have him ahead of Trevor  

DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Sept 2014, 20:42
#9
29 Sept 2014, 20:42#9
 One should only change if it is sure to be for the better. Maybe's should play off the bench.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Sept 2014, 23:38
#10
29 Sept 2014, 23:38#10
 Well JP is better than Habana, Jan and de Allende are a better combo than Jean and Jan,  Marcel is better than Jannie,  Willemse better than Matfield and du Plessis better than Oupa.....you get the picture?
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Sept 2014, 00:49
#11
30 Sept 2014, 00:49#11
Well thats all opinion....the opinion of a guy who assured us the Boks were going to lose to OZ.  
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Sept 2014, 01:16
#12
30 Sept 2014, 01:16#12
 It's a well informed opinion....my points are spot on.
Moffie I don't get everything right.....but losing 3 out of 4 to NZ and Oz tells me all I need to know.
My team would have won 3 out of 4, that's the difference
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 Sept 2014, 03:22
#13
30 Sept 2014, 03:22#13


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9437 RE: Time to change things
September 29, 2014, 18:28:12

Nope AJ, am a big fan of Coenie, he stays and Bismark is better than Strauss

 

Am all for du Toit being included. Would happily have him ahead of Trevor 


Racist.

CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 Sept 2014, 03:34
#14
30 Sept 2014, 03:34#14
 A girl

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9437 RE: Time to change things
September 29, 2014, 18:28:12

Nope AJ, am a big fan of Coenie, he stays and Bismark is better than Strauss

 

Am all for du Toit being included. Would happily have him ahead of Trevor



That is a new leaf, hey ou Dawie. Remember how ticked off you were when HM dared to drop Nyakane for a whitey? Now you want to do the same?

Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9437 RE: Nyakane a 'constant eater' - that's part of why he was dropped (Sport 24)
August 19, 2013, 23:11:54 My gues s is that Meyer has made his first fatal error axing a black player from his squad.........Meyer continues to come across as pretty stupid. There are better ways of dealing with a player than publicly hanging out all the dirty laundry when that laundry seems only slightly soiled


Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3353 RE: Nyakane a 'constant eater' - that's part of why he was dropped (Sport 24)
August 19, 2013, 23:45:20 The only official reason from the Bok camp was that he has breached team protocol by missing video sessions and flights. That, to me is ill-discipline. What should Meyer have done? Lick his arse and ask him to start behaving? It has bugger all to do with the colour of his skin and all to do with a crap attitude if you ask me. There is no place for ill-disciplined lazy free-riders in the Bok squad.


Edit post Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9437 RE: Nyakane a 'constant eater' - that's part of why he was dropped (Sport 24)
August 19, 2013, 23:54:24

Tell that to the masses and those wanting to impose quotas.......I'm sure they are over the moon about the axing of one of only two Africans in the Bok squad. I dont count Beast as he is a Zimbo.

 

While there is no place for ill discipline, I'm just saying that Meyer is a dunce for making the call......it will come back to bite him. My guess is that the knives will be out and I for one wont be sorry for his call is plain stupidity




sharkbok
sharkbok
Captain23,294 posts
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
30 Sept 2014, 05:09
#15
30 Sept 2014, 05:09#15
Just replace older players with newer players in going to solve everything.... 
One of two decent curry cup performances and a younger player can replace Bok legends.
S affex, you are so blinded by your prejudice dislike of older players, that you take of every match is totally inaccurate. 
You are totally self deluded, with a criteria that has not objectivity for evaluating performance. 
The top 10 coaches in the world could say that Matfield played well over the weekend. and you would insist that he does not.




 

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Sept 2014, 07:58
#16
30 Sept 2014, 07:58#16
 Sharrkbok
There is no need to replace players based on their age.   The criux of the matter is is whether players - older or younger - performs on an acceptable basis.
Take for instance the case of Matfield.   He has been acceptable in line outs - where he in the alsttwo matches fumbled balls a couple of times - something he never did in his hay-day.   He still puts in a sunstantial number of tackles - but most of those are of relatively poor quality - and he missed too many tackles altogether.  However, the main problem relates to Matfield's role in Tight 5 play - he has NO grunt at all.   Ever since he came into the Springbok team the scrumming went bad and his alck of performance has weakened the Tight 5.
With mMtfield in the team we struggled in that component of the game in virtually every match he played in.      Is Matfield a good choice - the answer is 50-50 - but he is problably not and te ebtter idea that since he is physically not strong enough to perform well in the Tight 5 -he should eb discarded. .  
PA
Pakie
Captain17,321 posts
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
30 Sept 2014, 08:58
#17
30 Sept 2014, 08:58#17
Why do you guys see Dave's name as "A girl" and I see "Saffex"?
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Sept 2014, 09:04
#18
30 Sept 2014, 09:04#18
 Because the part of the name has been banned.   Better to use the name D ave in that case. 
PA
Pakie
Captain17,321 posts
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
30 Sept 2014, 09:32
#19
30 Sept 2014, 09:32#19
Oh I see now yes. Thanks Mike.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Sept 2014, 13:46
#20
30 Sept 2014, 13:46#20
No Vlagshit you dumb fuck.....I am a huge Nkanyane fan, but Thomas du Toit is better......you get it?  
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 Sept 2014, 13:59
#21
30 Sept 2014, 13:59#21
 Jaaaaa swaer. Typical Dawie Kabouter mentality. The guy is doing well in the CC, which is a very poor yardstick nowadays, and you have him already elevated into the Bok team. We do not want another Johan Goosen, do we?

BTW. I see Goosen is now not even playing flyhalf any-more. Racing Metro had him at fullback last weekend. Maybe Laurent Labit has noticed what a lot of others have also noticed. Maybe he should have been moved to fullback long ago.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Sept 2014, 14:56
#22
30 Sept 2014, 14:56#22

The CC is not a poor yardstick so stop speaking kak. I and most have seen enough in du Toit to realise he has what it takes to play test rugby. I did not say I would start him......I'd have no issue with him starting off the bench though.

 

Just as I would be happy with Kitshoff, Nkanyane or Mellett playing off the Bok bench as a loosehead.

 

As for Goosen, he was damn good at test level, far better than useless Morne ever was......so I am not sure what your point is here. As for him being a fullback....what rubbish, he is not a 15 but a world class 10.

 

The French are hardly the yardstick and Metro have Sexton at 10 don't they?

BO
Boklogic
Pro1,978 posts
BO
BoklogicPro1,978 posts
30 Sept 2014, 15:20
#23
30 Sept 2014, 15:20#23
 

CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 Sept 2014, 15:42
#24
30 Sept 2014, 15:42#24

Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9444 RE: Time to change things
September 30, 2014, 12:56:16

The CC is not a poor yardstick so stop speaking kak. I and most have seen enough in du Toit to realise he has what it takes to play test rugby. I did not say I would start him......I'd have no issue with him starting off the bench though.

 

Just as I would be happy with Kitshoff, Nkanyane or Mellett playing off the Bok bench as a loosehead.

 

As for Goosen, he was damn good at test level, far better than useless Morne ever was......so I am not sure what your point is here. As for him being a fullback....what rubbish, he is not a 15 but a world class 10.

 

The French are hardly the yardstick and Metro have [removed]ton at 10 don't they?


The CC is a watered down competition nowadays, and you know it.

Goosen has done nothing in the Bok team. He was injured too often to even be judged at international level.

"The French are hardly the yardstick and Metro have [removed]ton at 10 don't they?"

There is no way that any of the current CC sides are going to beat any of the Premiership or Top14 teams. Your knowledge of what is going on in French rugby has just been given a blow with the remark about Se-xton. You do not even know that he is out for weeks with a broken jaw. Fact is that Goosen has been stuffing up since he arrived at Racing Metro. There Se-xton is out and still they are not using Goosen at 10. The only game that he started in was the one where he was rattled after a heavy tackle and then made a balls-up costing them a try. He was then left out/rested after the knock and included in the next game where he came on in the last 10 minutes. His next game was when he was played at fullback. To top it all, he got himself yellow carded as well in that game. He will really have to pull up his socks if he wants to make any impression. No wonder Racing Metro is prepared to break the bank to fin d a flyhalf.

3K
3ku1
Pro2,580 posts
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
30 Sept 2014, 16:00
#25
30 Sept 2014, 16:00#25
 Have yous ever entertained the notion. That despite whos selected. Its not that SA are playing bad, but NZ seem to have the mentle edge right now? We can list all the reasons all day why SA are not beating NZ. And list no reasons why NZ consistently keep beating SA. Why? Because its more convinient thats why. SA are very capable, and at home have a big chance. But they had a chance last year too. But when it came down to it. The top two inches, NZ Supeior Proficiency, and Supeior Tactics and Decision Making were the difference. Stats show SA need to score 30 or more points, and at least 4 trys, and concede less then 30 points. So logically that means an expansive gameplan. Problem with that is, NZ have been prooven to be the best counter attacking team in world rugby, so it comes with risks. Look if NZ hadent beaten SA in Three years this country would lose it lol. I mean when Abs concede a try it feels like a loss. So i cant imagine loosing to yous three years in a row. But my point is their are other variables and factors to consider, other then just wrong selections or bent reffing . My best SA team.

1. The Beast 2. Strauss 3. Van Der Merwe 4. Willemse 5. Estebeth 6. Coetzee 7. Du Pleesi 8. Vermulen 9. Reinach 10. Goosen 11. Habana 12. Serfointain 13. De Allende 14. Hendricks 15. Le Roux
16. Nkayane 17. Coenie 18. Bismark 19. Lood 20. Carr 21. Houggard 22. Lambie 23. JP
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Sept 2014, 16:12
#26
30 Sept 2014, 16:12#26
Vlagshit......I don't give a toss what is happening in French rugby...I just watch the games.......have no interest in the politics.......the fact that Metro are playing Goosen at 15 when Sexton is not at 10 is about all I need to know.  
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Sept 2014, 16:19
#27
30 Sept 2014, 16:19#27

Well 3ku1 your side is pretty much what mine would be.......and we will just never know when it comes to challenging the AB's as we always see Meyer select an understrength side.

 

I sincerely believe that man for man we have the match for the AB's.......they have some superior players like Read and Savea but that's where it ends.

 

Beast is better than Kockett or Woodcock

 

Bismark and Strauss are better than any Kiwi hooker

 

Marcel will prove better than Franks

 

Willemse is a match for Retallick

 

Etzebeth is better than Whitelock

 

You get the picture?  

— END OF THREAD —

More from Rugby

More news