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FORUM / RUGBY /  Time to play running rugby in SA

Time to play running rugby in SA

Started by Denny23 REPLIES363 VIEWS· 16 Jan 2017, 22:39
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DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
16 Jan 2017, 22:39
#1
16 Jan 2017, 22:39#1

South African rugby is at the crossroads and needs an injection of innovative thinking and a ball-in-hand approach if it is to dominate the game again, according to the Cheetahs and Bulls coaches, Franco Smith and Nollis Marais.

With Springbok rugby lagging further behind reigning world champions New Zealand, Smith and Marais are calling for a fresh look into the way South African Super Rugby franchises play the game and believe that a more expansive approach similar to that which the Lions adopted a few years ago could rescue and resuscitate the game going forward.

It might seem like a cry in the dark from two coaches whose teams have failed to make the Super Rugby play-offs, but both agree that the Lions have set the trend for how the Springboks should play the game if they are to make up ground against the New Zealand Super Rugby franchises and ultimately the All Blacks.

The Lions have been by far the best South African Super Rugby franchise and through their enterprising and expansive brand of rugby have climbed to the top of the standings defeating all the South African franchises and some of New Zealand’s best teams in the process.

It is by no measure of luck or good fortune that Lions coach Johan Ackermann has been able to steer his team to play an attractive and effective brand of rugby. It comes from the blueprint established by former All Blacks mentor John Mitchell during his time with the Joburg-based franchise a few years ago.

Ackermann has tweaked the plan here and there but kept the foundation laid by Mitchell and the one year the Lions were out of Super Rugby helped them get comfortable with their new game plan before unleashing it against the rest of their competitors.

After spending years abroad honing his coaching talent, Smith, pictured left, says he returned home to try and help transform the way South Africa play the game.

And this was evident last year when his Shimlas team swept all and sundry to be crowned Varsity Cup champions without conceding a defeat.

There have been glimpses of that running rugby, without forfeiting the traditional strengths of the South African set-piece play and physicality, during the Cheetahs' Super Rugby campaign this year. But Smith says it will take time and backing for the game to evolve in the country.

“We all know that in South Africa we want to play a different brand of rugby. I came back from abroad to contribute in that regard. I’m sure South African rugby can be much better with ball in hand," said Smith.

“I think we are at a crossroads. I’m here to promote running rugby and the ability of players with ball in hand like I feel most people in South African rugby are thinking towards. The Shimlas did well in adapting to what we want to do and it is possible.

“Unfortunately, to build at Super Rugby level is different. The Lions had the opportunity during the year they didn’t play Super Rugby to build so we at the Cheetahs are looking to be better in years to come.”

Marais concurs with Smith but emphasised the fact that South African rugby still needs to be true to itself and not forego what made them so powerful in the past.

“I think you have to have a good mixture. You still must be true to your DNA with our big, strong forwards who run around the corners but we also have to be more innovative than we are at the moment,” Marais said.

Marais, though, questioned whether rugby bosses and the rugby public will be patient enough to allow for change to happen and for there to be an understanding that there will be pitfalls and lows before the highs and euphoria that comes with being Super Rugby and world champions.

“The thing is, will the South African public be patient or will results be the main thing at the end of the day? The Lions for a year didn’t play competitive rugby and they had the time to do it but for us at the moment it is very difficult because we are playing Super Rugby. We will have to be innovative going forward and must have a good mixture between good set-piece play and running rugby.”

While the Bulls will be kicking themselves for narrowly missing out on making the play-offs this season, Marais says he had pleaded with the board of directors at the beginning of his tenure to be patient and accept that there will be shortcomings, but that in time they could replicate and achieve even more than the three Super Rugby titles gained in their golden era between 2007 and 2010.

“I said from the beginning to our board that we are going to play a different kind of rugby and it won’t always be easy because we have players here who have never played that way before.

“We bought players like Lood de Jager and are busy with other players as well.

“If you look at the players we have at the moment, they are the kind of players that want to run more with the ball but it’s going to take time to get that process going.


DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
16 Jan 2017, 22:41
#2
16 Jan 2017, 22:41#2
 It's going to be interesting to see if the process is going to be adhered to across all franchises in 2017.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Jan 2017, 04:08
#3
17 Jan 2017, 04:08#3
These guys are just lurching about in the dark. If Smith made any difference to the Bok backs on the YE tour it was to make them worse. Our backline resources are the worst in the RC, so how the hell will running rugby help us to win? Not one Bok back who played against Wales would make the Bargie backline. We need to find a style that plays to our strengths, but first we need to find some strengths....if we think that's going to be taking on NZ or Oz in the backs this will all end in tears. Eddie Jones has it right....win the possession and territory game among the forwards, exploit that with a few fast backs when the gaps have been created. Jones is playing classic Bok rugby, of the kind we played in both WCs we won....not Super Rugby netball.
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
17 Jan 2017, 05:29
#4
17 Jan 2017, 05:29#4
 

"Marais concurs with Smith but emphasised the fact that South African rugby still needs to be true to itself and not forego what made them so powerful in the past.

“I think you have to have a good mixture. You still must be true to your DNA with our big, strong forwards who run around the corners but we also have to be more innovative than we are at the moment,” Marais said."

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Jan 2017, 06:35
#5
17 Jan 2017, 06:35#5
Habana never played running rugby.......Joost didn't, nor Jean, Fury or Marius Joubert, JP never beat the Lions by cutting in from the blindside. This is offensive drivel....suddenly these hacks are going to discover running rugby. Eddie didn't set out to resurrect England after their WC debacle by putting all the emphasis on running rugby.....he developed a total game consistent with the resources available to him. And yes he improved England's back play, just as he did with the Boks in 2007.....but it was a balanced game, not "running rugby" as the focus.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Jan 2017, 11:02
#6
17 Jan 2017, 11:02#6
 Some members f this site has got it all wrong once again.   There is a huge difference which they refuse to recognize.  The difference is that they are clueless about comprehensive rugby and what it entails.
In this case the comprehension should start with with looking at the game plan.   This is concentrated on two rank stupidities namely that the loosies is an extention of the Tight 5 and the functioning of the half backs.    We have serious deficiencies in both two crucial combinations.
The SA teams since 2012 has been in decline.   There has been less and less competitiveness in ball protection and recovery and most of our loosies have failed miserably in that respect since they do not compete on the ground.    The problem is that our loosies has consistently being too slow to get to breakdown points and that by the time they get there the ball is gone already.   Besides that aside from Burger the rest of the players have no ball sense and cannot "follow the ball".   We consistently have had the worst loosie combination imaginable and then expect miracles. 
Our flyhalf usage have been clueless and specified by the coaches - in the main they have been unable to read games and take options.   This has lead to constant aimless kicking and repetitiveness easy to defend against.   Each individual player is destroyed by solo efforts and there really is no game plan at all.  
The issue is not running rugby -  it is playing comprehensive rugby with all 15 players contributing to the team on a cohesive basis.    That has been missing from SA Rugby for years and the muck that has been dished up has been destructive.  
The starting point should be to look at the flyhalf situation and especially at our loosie combination.    Fix that and we can get somewhere.      
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
17 Jan 2017, 11:38
#7
17 Jan 2017, 11:38#7
I agree Moz, there is no such thing as "running rugby" without a foundation being laid up front. Structured, well organised and well executed forward & tactical play eventually creates the opportunities needed for running rugby. And exactly as you have pointed out, England are using this philosophy to great effect. That said, and as Mike has pointed out, our forwards performances, regardless of the combination, have been in decline for a while now. Our forward and tactical play is not laying a good enough foundation for our backs to be able to thrive. I am still not convinced that talent is the issue, we have plenty of it, but under our coaching structures our players simply don't seem to consistently perform. They go overseas, and suddenly they are world beaters. Our problems lie with our rugby philosophy and our coaches. 
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
17 Jan 2017, 14:41
#8
17 Jan 2017, 14:41#8
 I agree Moz, there is no such thing as "running rugby" without a foundation being laid up front. Structured, well organised and well executed forward & tactical play eventually creates the opportunities needed for running rugby.

Does France play running rugby?
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
17 Jan 2017, 14:51
#9
17 Jan 2017, 14:51#9
Who cares what France does? They are a benchmark for no international side, so it is really not relevant....except maybe as a model not to follow. 
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
17 Jan 2017, 14:53
#10
17 Jan 2017, 14:53#10
 SA is not England.

England or France have it easy. They can create rugby bubbles NZ does not poke regularly to burst them.

The english rugby bubble will be burst when NZ decides it.
In the meantime, though, England is allowed to pretend.

Beside, England is supposed to be the dominant force in the NH. As long they beat the other nations in the north, the dream is on. Wake up time comes at the hand of NZ.

SA is supposed to be the rival to NZ.
This sets the requirement  higher. And worst of it, year in, year out, NZ is compelled to burst any bubble SA would create.

SA, contrary to England, can not pretend. SA must be as they are constantly revealed by playing against NZ. There is no hiding for SA.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
17 Jan 2017, 22:07
#11
17 Jan 2017, 22:07#11
I agree with a lot of what most of you are saying, even though you are disagreeing on various things.
It's seems as though the extreme lack of good coaching and poor confidence levels of the Boks will render any type of game that they try to play futile.
If they try to play a balanced game it seems that it will always be just a matter of time/minutes before the backs stop getting the ball and the they revert to endless crash balls culminating in them eventually kicking the ball away. Almost as though they will always end up on the ropes waiting for their opponents to gas, which doesn't happen.
So while I agree that we need to play a balanced game and do so to our strengths, it just seems as though we might start games with a willingness to attack  but for various reasons the forwards end up hogging the ball and then loosing it. The backs never get quick ball from up front and so any attacks they launch are quickly snuffed out, they thus get less and less ball and end up looking clueless and impotent.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Jan 2017, 23:54
#12
17 Jan 2017, 23:54#12
You don't have great rugby teams without great players. We have one....Etzebeth. Maybe Pollard if he comes back with all his youthful talent. For the rest it's a very depressing inventory. Which means the team has to be very effective and stay on script. We can do a lot of things to improve our performance. Our tight forwards can be put through handling and tackling drills, they are way behind best in class. Our cenres can be forged into a more effective defensive force....Allende's tackling is simply not acceptable. And crucially we can work on scoring set moves for inside the 22....like the one the Poms pulled on us when they turned Venter inside out. The maul is less effective but still plays a role. All these things can be done. But desperately we need to find physically talented players who are competitors....who are up for dominating their direct opponent. We have that spirit in Sevens, where our small elusive players are very effective. Within the tighter confines of 15 man rugby, they can't compete. But players like Cecil Africa are exactly the kind of competitors we need.....they need to be 20% bigger.
XA
XaviPro1,924 posts
18 Jan 2017, 00:57
#13
18 Jan 2017, 00:57#13
 It wont matter how big or competitive our players are if they're gonna take the ball standing still.
There's all this hooha about the next great all carrying all bashing all running flyhalf thats gonna unlock defences everywhere and thats BS to be frank. Tens job is to unlock those defences but without players varying their angles and lines or even taking the ball at pace all you'll do is shuffle the ball down the line under increasing pressure.
Jantjies looks so good at the lions because his backs are looking to run into space allowing him to take the ball up and then distribute to who he believes is in the best position.
This doesn't work in the springboks because our backs are all lined up nice and flat so as not to confuse the opposition too much(sarcasm) and because our forwards can't get over the advantage line due to taking ball standing still.
My U12s know more about depth, screening and a simple diamond formation than Ou Stick.
NOT ADVOCATING ELTON FOR BOK TEN!! Just saying is all.
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
18 Jan 2017, 01:13
#14
18 Jan 2017, 01:13#14
 Where is the brutish forward pack backed up by long range snipers and the odd [ very odd for SA rugby these days ] sneaky sea-gulling winger ?This is the Boks that made the ABs work damned hard for their pay .
XA
XaviPro1,924 posts
18 Jan 2017, 01:18
#15
18 Jan 2017, 01:18#15
 They're still there only they traded their brute for peroxide and bed head wax.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
18 Jan 2017, 10:58
#16
18 Jan 2017, 10:58#16
 Who cares what France does? They are a benchmark for no international side, so it is really not relevant....except maybe as a model not to follow.

So no answer.

The rest is wrong on many accounts.
FR and SA share a lot in common. Both have the same obsession over a priviledge to lose for example.

FR is a benchmark for one socalled big international side:SA. And vice versa.
FR is the one big team in the NH SA may hope to beat. And SA is the one SH big team FR may hope to beat.

The incoming series will tell if SA manages to stop his downfall or if FR manages to start going up.
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
18 Jan 2017, 12:13
#17
18 Jan 2017, 12:13#17
 It does not matter which way you cut it, the fact is that Springbok rugby hasn't the faintest on how to score tries. Our players don't think on their feet and damned if I know why but they are sadly lacking in basic skills.
But hey Helllooooo, we've been saying this since re-admission.
They've also lost the ability to play a smart kicking game as well as  that old faithful...physicality.....matter of fact, compared to the rest of the rugby world it seems like South Africa depleted their beef supplies in the '60s.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
18 Jan 2017, 13:49
#18
18 Jan 2017, 13:49#18
 The only chance for all loser rugbys is that NZ is destroyed and put out of their winning ways. This might happen through economical means.
Once NZ is forced to play loser rugby, this will make room for other loser rugbys.
Even in that situation, SA will keep struggling.
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
18 Jan 2017, 14:01
#19
18 Jan 2017, 14:01#19
 I don't like Krispy Kremes......I'm more of a Koek sister man.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
18 Jan 2017, 14:44
#20
18 Jan 2017, 14:44#20
 This article makes the point that SA players have talent but don't work hard enough. If that's the case then that is very fixable.
Link to article


DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
18 Jan 2017, 15:01
#21
18 Jan 2017, 15:01#21
 JW, I think they work hard on the wrong things and neglect important stuff. It's not the players but rather the coaches methinks.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
18 Jan 2017, 18:35
#22
18 Jan 2017, 18:35#22
 The article shows NZ start to feel alone.
SA players are average. Guy went up to tell he saw no difference between NZ and SA players. Anything goes to try to avoid rugby ending in SA.

Comments to the article are must reads. Apart from one that takes the right observation, all the others are off target. Going to be very hard in SA as more and more less and less priviledged people are confronted with the realities of a world market.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
18 Jan 2017, 19:15
#23
18 Jan 2017, 19:15#23
 The sheeple are amazed by this revelation T.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
18 Jan 2017, 21:22
#24
18 Jan 2017, 21:22#24
 Well, the revelation has not made it to the people who commented the article, considering their comments.
They still live in a world they want to be protected from.
— END OF THREAD —

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