Times Are Changing

Something that struck me after the Puma defeat was the arrogance of our fans. "It was an embarrassment", "Argentina are a lowly soccer nation", "Something like that should never happen". I've heard the last of those many times. Why shouldn't it happen? Are we so lofty that we can be labelled as untouchable? Rugby is developing and developing fast. The fastest growing rugby nations and fan base are not found in the top tier. I remember a time when it was the top 3, and everyone else. We had the next best outside of that who would offer a challenge from time to time. Those days are long gone and never coming back! Rugby is quickly expanding outside of the top 10 and I imagine in another 5 years we'll have even more competition. I think it's time for. Our plastic fans need to wake up. We are after all primarily a soccer nation too! Funny how it never seemed to occur to them. Nothing should be taken for granted and no-one has divine right to anything. If we don't have respect for our opponents we deserve to be humiliated.

Yeah...not only in rugby but everything...the writing is on the wall

So true. Looking at the ranking, there's New Zealand and Ireland off in the distance, then 5 places which are being closely contested. The points are leveling out more than before. I think too many of our fans are mentally stuck in the 50s. 

Nursed until the Japan disaster - and not preparing properly for a change in guard when his over-the hill passengers were to be replaced.    Now stop talking BS and admit our present situation stems from poor preparation of a proper squad starting as early as 2012;  .  

However, that is too much to expect from the self-proclaimed world rugby experts on site.

Who were the next generation players Meyer should have built around? 

Times have indeed changed. We used to be one of the best rugby nations in the world and we the fans expected our team to carry on challenging for top honours. Some of us still do. Anything less than being the best isn't acceptable.

Now we have fans like you, who look for excuses when we're thrashed by lowly South American teams. If it's not the "rugby has grown" excuse, then it's the rubbish that we no longer have quality stocks to select from. If that doesn't do it, then our lowly opponents are suddenly transformed into these world beaters, even if they're only ranked 9th in the world.

I guess some prefer to hide their heads in the sand. That to me is a more accurate description of what a "plastic fan" is. Wouldn't you agree? 

Meyer was an awful, arrogant coach who wanted it all his own way. He refused to take advice from anybody. He hurt the Springbok more than anyone else, and we are still struggling from his time as coach.

Funny how the "plastic fan" also tends to make excuses for his incompetence, blaming everything and everyone around him. 

Desperation is a terrible thing.

For me the biggest threat is the country itself. The rugby can and will be back near the top if the country can stay intact. Once it implodes , then the Boks will be gone for good. Like Zimbabwe.

The only chance the Springboks have of future meaningful competition is if it is fully transformed. And transform it will. The naivete boggles the mind, i.e. the persistent faith that the majority will uphold the political abstractions of 92 with the glee of the romp to the polls of that year. Allegiance to a raceless constitution rather than racial loyalty. Bah. We're just not as stupid as you are.

Meyer was such an arrogant coach that he went back on his convictions and gave the fans what they wanted. He undid a 79% win percentage in his first 29 tests as coach to indulge the plastic fans. He was rewarded with a 52% win percentage thereafter in his remaining 19 tests . It would have been worse had some old heads not steadied the ship. As I say, the plastics are in a bit of a pickle, do they attack Meyer and draw scrutiny upon themselves for their poor calls? Or do they forever bite their tongues, and live with the anguish of suppressing their vitriol. They seldom choose the latter. If you want to criticize Meyer, then be honest about the failures you wanted and bullied him to pick - yes, the media and fans did hound him into it. Jake had the steel to say no. 

Haha!! As I said, the plastic fans are very creative when it comes to defending their favourite coaches and players.

We now have a list of 4 excuses . I'm sure this list will grow as time passes us by.

1. Rugby has grown globally and that's why we suck.

2. We no longer have a pool of quality players to select from, and that's why we suck.

3. The minnows of yesterday are world class opponents these days and that's why we suck.

4. Coach Meyer lost his way because of the fans. It's our fault. He gave us what we wanted. We are to blame for JJ Engelbrecht in the 13 jumper. We are also to blame for the return of Matfield and Bakkies, Jaque Fourie and Steenkamp, JP Pietersen and Alberts selected as an open side flank, and that is why we suck.

I suppose our loss to Japan is also our fault.

It's our fault that guys like Malcolm Marx and Jaco Kriel were ignored. Willie Le Roux was only brought in after a series of injuries left Meyer with out choice. That too is our fault.

Oh the desperation of the "plastic fan" and his pointed finger.

Dragon

I think we are not appreciating the fact that Mozart said he, AgainBSter and Pakie are such good performance evaluators and their insight of the game is so high that they can identify problems which experts worldwide has been unable to detect.   They are the top three analysts in the world of rugby.   

That means we must always said - we bow to your superior knowledge - my lord about whatsoever they write on site.   They can falsify match particulars to their liking and we must bow and say the same.  

When they say that Meyer was a top class coach - we must accept that.   When they say anything about players - we poor plastic fans must keep quiet.    By the way when a coach or player flop - the arrogant "experts" blame the plastic fans for the selection of players - not the coach.   When they discuss stats they use it highly selectively and we must keep quiet - after all we are mere plastic fans.   When Morne buggered up in the Perth test - we must keep quiet about what he did.   Fat Fransie is the top SA center and when he is criticized for being poor on Super Rugby level a claim is made that he made 3 line breaks in one game - when he made none.   Matfield must never be discussed by the "plastic fans".   I can go on ad infinitum naming l;iterally doens of similar postings on players.

I do not think we should really consider anything the local "world experts" raise on site.   I do believe SA rugby is in trouble - but a serious investigation on it starting years ago - is obviously not acceptable.   Fact is the decline was already noticeable in the 2011 WC and got progressively worse when Meyer took over as coach - and it is obviously also not due to Coetzee - whom Mozart initially supported as coach.   The present problems are all due to Erasmus = whom AgainBSter and Mozart maligned from the word go.

So lets go from here and accept that the reasons for the present situation in fact started under Meyer as coach.    That the SA economy is under massive strain and the Rand is near to worthless.  That the majority of people suffer badly as a result.   That discrimination against Whites on all levels is the norm.  That discrimination goes back to school level and also in rugby s election.  That on international level quota selection undermines the teams.   .     

. Rugby has grown globally and that's why we suck.

No. The reason is that rugby turned professional and SA rugby failed to understand what it meant.

For SA, turning professional was just doing the same as when amateur and getting paid for it.

SA rugby is 25 years behind and  resourceless to reform.

The big chance for SA rugby is that rugby has not grown as much as it had to or could elsewhere.

AR for example has been facing many issues that have slowed down their progress.

Terminate rugby in SA.

Wow!! Aren't we a cheerful soul.

That the SA economy is under massive strain and the Rand is near to worthless.  That the majority of people suffer badly as a result.   That discrimination against Whites on all levels is the norm.  That discrimination goes back to school level and also in rugby election.  That on international level quota selection undermines the teams.   .     

The passion for tale.

Despite the emergency of the situation, the same reflex of taking shelter in tale.

Impressive.

SA rugby has no team to challenge for the rugby world domination. It has no team to dominate the Pro 14, no team to dominate the SR, no team to dominate the international competitions.

This no matter the selection policy.

The whole quota tale is to protect SA rugby from this major detail.

The vision of an all white player team that keeps losing and bring no money to SA would only add the popularity issue.

In SA, kids are dying of starvation, half of the population can not afford to buy a basic food basket on a daily basis.

Maybe time to come to terms that SA has been empoverished by the globalist scheme of exporting all the wealth possible outside of SA.

A few nice buildings in Kolmanskop. But it does not go further.

I'm putting the plastic fans in their place. The arrogance is that the Boks cannot lose to anyone other than  New Zealand and Australia. The game has grown exponentially since those days. That's not an opinion, it's not an excuse, it's a fact. The fastest growing rugby nations are catching up quickly. Even Brazil, with it's enormous social and structural obstacles, with a rabbid appetite for soccer is establishing a strong foundation. How then can we expect to be invincible? The Meyer critics only serve to emphasise my point: "This is just an excuse for your favourite coach we,  should never have lost to Japan".

He is neither my favourite coach and the only reason you were caught cold by that loss was because of your very narrow world view. It was no surprise for me. Not because I thought the Boks were pathetic, but because I knew what dangers that Japanese side posed. The plastics were anticipating a 100 point win. It was absolutely ridiculous. The arrogance goes further as even a defeat against Los Pumas and Wales, playing outstanding rugby on their own turf, is met with the same puffed up pride.

The game is changing, and it's changing quickly. The expectation of establishing a top 3 dominion over the rest of the rugby world is gone, and never coming back. 

Kudos to you Bok fans or hanging in there through thick { PDV] and thicker [Coetzee] .I woulda had a brain snap by now.

PDV was the last Bok coach to win a series vs NZ though ,just sayin;.

AgainBSter is an odious and arrogant fool - who can he put in their place - since all he knows about rugby is cloud 9 day dreams.   There has been numerous discussions on site of growth of rugby I the world - but bow suddenly he has discovered growth of rugby in Brazil.  That being the only case he has discovered.   

He knows stuff about the game and less about what is really happening.   Chimna has more rugby layers than the whole population of New Zealand.   Rugby is the main sport supported by the Red Army,   The game is not organized yet on a professional basis - but when that happens it would have a major impact - even more than the case is with Brazil.   Russia is another growth area - there are already 83 000 rugby players in Moscow and surrounding areas,   

There is a problem here - AgainBSTer knows too little to comment on what is really happening.   90%  of the rugby-supporting public knows a hundred times more than he does about the game.

Peter had the golden generation in their prime and did little with it. The three biggest contributors to the success for the few months he had, he didn't want. He was adamant that Morné, Brussow and Fourie would not be Boks under him. They had to do their damage off the bench to force his hand. Brussow, the rightful player of the year in 2009, was only included in the squad at the insistence of Plumtree - who was rushed into the team to work on the breakdown after the Boks nearly lost a friendly against Namibia. We almost went into that first Lions test with Newman at fullback. He was born ready, apparently. Peter was a bizarre man. I'll credit him for not being the ANC puppet he was expected to be. The plaudits end there I'm afraid. 

It's one example I have cited. I've been a cutely aware of the growth of the game in many countries. I even watch many of these games.

That said, I do need to direct your efforts because you are losing sight of the topic in a bid to show us all the things you googled this evening. 

The topic is the change of the game and the plastic fans expectation of autonomous dominance. Turn up and win, as nobody has the right to beat the Boks. With Australia and South Africa's dismal away record the past 15 years one has to wonder what sustains this arrogance. All of this in response of course to the Puma defeat. Where the plastics, even Rassie, expressing the disgust of losing to something beneath them. 

No argument there. The game is barely recognizable from the way it was.

There are many more nations playing this wonderful game, but where you and I differ is that I don't think that these new recruits have made much more advances in the sport other than trying to introduce it to their respective countries at grass roots level. Having it compete again age old favourites. Look at the USA. It's been played there for yonks and still they're no threat to the top teams in the world.

It's going to take many decades for them to develop it into a sport where they can compete with the very best in the world. That is of course if the very best haven't regressed to a Banana Republic as we have.

Yes. I am saying that the standard of rugby in our country has taken on the likeness of Bafana Bafana. It's not that the rugby developing nations have grown but rather that we have fallen away and become a typical African country where losing is the order of the day.

Tell me something? Can we expect the All Blacks to lose to Japan any day soon? How about the Ozzies or England?

We've already bowed the knee to Italy. Is it because of their development or could it be because of poor coaching and poor team selections based on race?

I hope I haven't been too straight forward. I tried to put it as gently as I could but alas that's about the best I could come up with.  

Look at the rankings. Wales to Argentina. Any of those places are up for grabs. It used to be New Zealand  and the Australia and South Africa fighting for second. Very occasionally someone else would enter the top 3. That barrier has been broken down. We have a legitimate top 10 that is competitive. From. 10 to 16 we have more competition. The gap is closing. Japan, Italy and Samoa are not even in the top 10 and have already taken big scalps. The gap is only going to decrease as time goes on. 

Saffas rugby knowledge of what's happening world wide is limited as I noticed we are only interested in ourselves.

You see it especially when watching WC matches...they generally only watch themselves.

I give you an example, before the Japan/SA match, there was an interesting match between Tonga and Georgia (another growing rugby country that can hold it's own even against the middle road and will perhaps even challenge the big guns). Nobody was interested. They won that game quite convincingly.

It interested me because I'm a fan of Georgia especially after they nearly beat Ireland in Bordeaux (2007 WC).

Amazing forwards (Mamuka Gorgodze, now retired)...if they could only improve their backline.

They also beat all 3 Pacific Island sides on an overseas tour last year.

Go Lelos.

No. I don't agree.

They may take our scalp as we are no longer a top tier rugby nation.

Our standard is on par with the lower third of the top 10. We have lost to two nations that haven't cracked the top 10 yet. We can easily be ranked 8th by the end of the coming tour down under.

It really is time you find another source, other than your thumb.

Oops!! Did I say that? Well I meant it with no disrespect .

I saw that game in 2007. The Eastern Europeans produce amazing forwards. Incredibly strong men. I can't recall who scored the intercept. I think it was a Georgian off an Irish scrum. If Japan had Georgia's, or Italy's, forwards they'd be an absolute nightmare to play. 

Georgia has been very impressive.

They have some very powerful men. I too am a fan of theirs. How can I not be? There is so much passion among them. 

Absolutely Augenoffer...glad you noticed it...you have a bit of my respect...not in everything but yes you watch the world stage and that's more than one expect from Saffa critics that are spluttering with answers that have no value...you, at least see this , most of us don't and live in Disneyland..

Georgia might well become a force...they absolutely adore rugby and have taken to it like perhaps the original NZ'ers long time ago...it's the zest in rugby (sport in general) that makes champions...the people are physically very strong...they are Olympic champions in wrestling, at least sometimes.

I like Georgians...I go to to a Georgian restaurant in Moscow when I'm there...they serve the most delicious Shashlyk... a dish that flaws you. The restaurant is run by a huge Georgian okie who looks like a Hollywood godfather but has become my friend... a gentle big man who loves rugby and admires SA rugby.

I still have some relatives living in Russia. Learned a little Russian. Most of them relocated to Burma long ago before coming to South Africa. I have an appreciation or Slavic steel. 

Oops never confuse Georgians with Russians, they are vastly different, they don't generally get on well together and there is still conflict amongst them sadly...each has their own very strong pride.

You get good and bad on both sides, of course but Stalin was a Georgian but he was a psychopath who killed millions of people, even his friends...I don't know who was worst, Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin or Lenin.

Stalin also messed up rugby in Russia, it was banned...it was supposed to represent Colonialism and Imperialism sport...this has virtually made the game non existent there except to the Siberian towns. No doubt there must be massive talent hidden there but it's a difficult sport to promote there due to harsh winters.

I understand that Georgians aren't Russian. There are bad feelings among many Eastern block states and Russia. The Slavic world is broken into various distinct pieces. Georgians are, however, Turkic.

Yes, Stalin was very bad. Hitler has quite a mythos surrounding him. When one factors his occult practices, he could be considered the worst. In terms of bloodlust, Mau takes the cake. I'd put him up there with Stalin. Even they can't compare to our banker friends though. 

NZ  copped all sorts of flak for what looked an unconvincing win over a Georgian "b" team..

But the Georgians were ecstatic to be playing against the ABs  and were delighted when the ABs had selfies and beersies  with them .

And no one saw Hansens cunning as a weasel with 2 noses plan .