Timo Swiel - A blast from the past...Back at WP

Timo was hyped by many on this board as the next best junior to hit the scene. He looked like a Bok in the making, at least to some including me. He had the running skills of a fullback, with the playmaking skills of a flyhalf. At least in junior rugby with more time and space...

It did not all pan out. In some ways a Damien Willemse type of player. Lots of skills but can he control games by taking the best options a playmaker from 10. 

He started SuperRugby under Jake White which proved to be a disaster for him. He got limited game time but looked good in space. His decision making and following Jake White's plan did not seem to be happening.

One of those players who have the extreme skill that excels with time and space, but not as good with less time. Although, perhaps would have done better with the game plan the Sharks are using in 2020- than the Jake White 10 man game that was being deployed in Jakes year in charge. 

Now he returns to SA a more experienced player, but by all accounts did not apparently set the world on fire in the English Premiership. 

Since when did Damian have skills? That was precisely his problem, along with a lack of rugby IQ. Technically flawed on defence and attack.

As foe Swiel. Never ever looked like becoming a Bok. Wasn't fortunate enough to have the media propel him to 50+ caps though. 

@Aug, sorry I meant Damien Willemse, not Delande. 

“ Timo was hyped by many on this board as the next best junior to hit the scene. “

He was only hyped by two. Mike and Saff (admittedly only initially, in his case, though).

All mum stuff aside...

I have to hand it to David...

Unlike other members.... like clevermike and mozart...

Dave isn't afraid to admit he was wrong about a player.

I for one also liked Swiel... but his lack of physicality has counted against him big time.

Well done David .

David, i watched him play as a school kid against (I'm pretty sure it was) SACS.

He ripped them to shreds. He played at 10.

So ya, its a pity he couldnt carry it through.

“  Posted by: Saffex (18643 posts)

Swiels Youtube highlights as a Bishops player was out of this world - he looked bloody amazing. Reminded me of Gibbs as a 10“

I saw Gibbs in his school days. The Craven week of that year was at Loftus and a friend’s son played for N Tvl against WP. At that stage the big question was rugby or cricket when he finished school. 

I always admit when I was wrong about players.   When you look at school kids and under 20 players you always have a problem - some who seemingly are brilliant never makes it into senior rugby and Swiel was on of those,    Instead of playing for SA Under 20 on the 2013 WC he apparently decided  to not play for SA - but try to get into English Rugby,

My comments always are - watch out for that type of player in future and see how he develops - there never is any other way to look at potential talented kids. 

He did not make the grade and then made a terrible career choice - he signed to play rugby for the Sharks under Jake White,   If he went to the Cheetahs at the time he would have had a chance to develop further in rugby - it would never be possible for a backline player like him to develop with White in charge,              

Dave 

You are right about that 

Mike, to be very honest...

You are the most one eyed rugby follower that I have come across.

And I mean this very objectively.

Frans Steyn could win international player of the year and you still wouldn't see anything good about him.

... thats just an example.

I find you very narrow minded.

So too Moz.

...actually maybe it's an age thing then?

Guys like David, cera, sharkie and Db are all big enough men to acknowledge that sometimes they get things wrong OR that a player has lost or found form and is playing well...

You... none of that.

Ah, this kid never learned how to pass or kick tactically. He is very similar to George Ford in built but Ford is a fantastic kicker and distributer where Swiel relies on his step and guile. 

That said, the age group teams at the team could have been really weak to. 

A better coached team could have shut him down properly. 

But that is problem with school boy rugby. What happened to that Du Preez kid that got a Australian rugby league contract only to swirl around the doldrums and never really progress anywhere 

I completely disagree with you on that one. Again, he didn't know how to manage a game. I actually watched quite a few of his senior games for the sharks and harlequins. All I can say is he had a good show real for a school boy kid.

Then, yes it is bishops that he is playing for, so of course he would look better in a school team that likes to poach all of the best players around the cape

So George Ford has a hard edge? But he is one of the best 10s in the world, same build 

All I saw of Swiel was dancing around flat footed defenders

Swiel reminds me of Morne Steyn - too many and too much aimless kicking.   However - unlike dear Morne he does go into contact and tries to make tackles    Not up to standard to my mind.   

The only player to my mind that showed much was Schickerling - he was on the bench and made a huge difference when he came on     The problem is that both Van Zyl and Moerat are substandard locks and  no hard grafters like Schickerling.   He is top class and will make further progress in future.    He had a major hand in one of the WP tries as well.    

Unlike the Kiwis we struggle to produce quality flyhalves. James and Pollard over a period of what....25 years?

Just noticed that Eddie Jones picked Umaga for England. His comments is really interesting in that he likens them to shushi chefs. He also states that he likes instinctive players and wants them to take their opportunities. 

I think we do have some good flyhalves and I always thought Jones was the best coach in the world when it comes to backline players and especially tens. 

Look what he did with Butch James, he was average. 

We either want our 10s to be like Naas, pale toe or like Henry Honniball that can take on big forwards. Hence why we also struggle with players like Jantjies and Willemse. I remember when Brent Russel got selected at 10. Very much Finn Russel type player. 

We just never value our 10s as creative players or know how to use them like Eddie does. 

Maybe there is hope for Willemse  

Butch burst onto the scene as elite. Both at super rugby level and test rugby. Jones did no such thing. 

Pretorius had about the good tests. One of the Welsh tests in 2002, the second England test of 2006 and the last All Black test of 2006 was okay. That's it.

Lambie doesn't have one standout test at 10. A very weak and timid player, poor floaty and short pass, pop gun boot and little presence. Ironically, his greatest moment was a kick, but the real show was the breakout game of Pollard. A sound defensive fullback though, and very secure under the high ball. Was always a 15.

Honiball was a blunt and skilless lump. His stats for the 1999 WC were mediocre. Not an all time great Bok.

Naas is legendary, can't argue there. 

Gaffie's career was blighted by an appearance at 10. Only useful as a 15 thereafter.

Goosen achieved nothing at test level. A defensive liability from a physical and positional standpoint. His only weapon was a flat fade with a short inside ball to a crash baller. Timid too. Was destined to be a 15 from the moment the Bulls crushed him in the second round of Super Rugby 2012.

Morné finished his test career with a tackle percentage in the 80%s, higher than Carter. More linebreaks and assists happened when he was on the field. Our best attacking Bok sides post 2007 included Morné. Long pass off either hand, great boot and good reader of play. The most successful Bok 10 of all time, holding the most records. Second highest points per test in Bok history. Bok sides put points on the board with him.

Stransky was a great Bok 10. A very good runner and with a good pass. Great spacial awareness. Underrated. We didn't have a truly great Bok 10 after him until Butch.

Butch is the most talented Bok 10 we have had in all the years I've been following the game. Most complete. Just such a pity for the injuries. In his final stint with the Sharks, labelled a has-been, he outplayed every other candidate for the 10 Jersey and made Lambie look like a schoolboy who had never touched a rugby ball. Jake lamented those injuries, stating that had Butch been injury free, he'd have always been his first choice at 10.

The worst non-thinker as a flyhalf is rated highly by the kindergarten thinker on site,   Morne was disgraced in attack and defense and such a useless player -   the equally stupid coach fired him once in 2012 and twice in 2014.   His tackle count was ridiculously low and  in the Perth test in 2014 when he handed victory to the Aussies on a platter - he made 8 tackles  and missed 7 because the Aussies attacked in the channel and Morne were credited with tackles he receied assustance with - but if there was not assistance the Aussies just ran through him.   

I give credit  to Morne for one thing only - he had an 80% success rate at goal = for the rest he was the worst flyhalf in the history of Springbok rugby,