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FORUM / RUGBY /  To young or to stupid?

To young or to stupid?

Started by ForeverArizona15 REPLIES1,290 VIEWS· 31 Jul 2014, 04:58
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FO
ForeverArizonaClub Pro580 posts
31 Jul 2014, 04:58
#1
31 Jul 2014, 04:58#1

A schoolboy teenager is set to play in the 2014 Currie Cup - Henry Immelman, the Grey College fullback.

Thomas du Toit, who was at Paarl Boys' High last year, has proved that a teenager can stand firm among the tough, gnarled men of the front row.

Frans Steyn was 19 when he was chosen for the Sharks and then for South Africa. That was 2007, the year he turned 20. Johan Goosen was 18 when first he played for the Cheetahs in 2011, the year he turned 19.

Now Henry Immelman has been chosen in the Free State squad to play in the Currie Cup. He turned 19 in May.  Unlike Steyn and Goosen he is still at school - in matric at Grey College, the school that Steyn and Goosen attended.  Like the other two he played for Free State at Craven Week - in 2013. Goosen made SA schools; Steyn and Immelman did not.  Steyn and Goosen were born east of Bloemfontein - in Aliwal North and Burgersdorp. Immelman was born, on 26 May 1995, in Upington in the west.

He is an exciting player, running brilliantly from fullback or on the wing, and was contracted at the end of last year to play for Free State till the end of 2016.

He has missed some rugby this year after fracturing a cheekbone and tearing a lip against Affies in Pretoria in May. But on Saturday he played again - in Grey's big win over Glenwood in Durban.

Rory Duncan, the Free State's Currie Cup coach, announced last week his squad of 44 players, which includes eight Springboks and Immelman.

The Free State Currie Cup Squad

Forwards:
Rudolph Botha, Tienie Burger, Neil Claassen, Peet Coetzee, Jean Cook, Luan de Bruin, Lood de Jager, Jacques du Toit, Vincent Jobo, Lappies Labuschagne, Hercu Liebenberg, Oupa Mohoje, Freddie Ngoza, Trevor Nyakane, Caylib Oosthuizen, Coenie Oosthuizen, Boom Prinsloo, Bees Roux, Kevin Stevens, Adriaan Strauss, Francois Uys, Torsten van Jaarsveld, Henco Venter, Waltie Vermeulen, Carl Wegner.

Backs: Rayno Benjamin, Clayton Blommetjies, Renier Botha, AJ Coertzen, JP du Plessis, Willie du Plessis, Joubert Engelbrecht, Cornal Hendricks, Henry Immelman, Cameron Jacobs, Tertius Kruger, Nico Lee, Willie le Roux, Marco Mason, Sarel Pretorius, Raymond Rhule, Francois Venter, Shaun Venter, Elgar Watts.

In earlier times, when the game was less violent or these was just less concern, players were chosen on ability without regard to age, there were players younger than there are now.

Two Scottish schoolboys - Charles Reid and Ninian Finlay - were 17 years and 36 days old when they played for Scotland, Finlay in 1875, Reid in 1881. They were at Edinburgh Academy at the time. The youngest to play for South Africa was almost certainly a Bishops boy - Jack Hartley who may well have been 17 years and 18 days when he played for South Africa in 1891. In fact his tombstone gives his date of birth as 18 August 1876. If that were correct he would have been 15 years and 18 days old. In 1892 he played in the first Currie Cup tournament.

Only in ancient times? James O'Connor played for Australia at 18 in 2008, as did Tom Prydie of Wales in 2010.

The last one to do what Henry Immelman is doing was Jaque Fourie who was a 19-year-old at Monument when he was chosen to play fullback for the Golden Lions in 2002. He was 20 when he played his first Test - at the Rugby World Cup in 2003.

There are big boots for Henry Immelman to fill!

 

I found this to be a very interesting article.It adds value to the argument that

South African rugby is in desperate search of  "the holy grail" of players.Since the day when James O Conner ran on to the super rugby scene at a very tender age it has become a search for prodigy's like these youngsters to boost skill and guts.Our own example is Frans Steyn.At age 26 he has 50+ test level matches to boast about and has won a RWC.Not many 26 year old rugby players in South Africa can say that.Or around the world.

 

The thing is that bothers me is this.Is our search for the holy grail play maker driving us all insane and away form developing our players in to more skilled players?Look at where we are currently.Lambie has played flyhalf and so has Goosen and Pollard.Neither of them really making a difference.Ok Pollard has only played one test but the thing is,was he drafted in because of our desperation to win?At such a young age?Do these kids know what they are giving themselves for?It seems that it takes only one bad game to be out of contention.

 

The expectations are to high.Then there is the added pressure of performance rejection.Meaning,not good enough for my liking then we cut you from the team...How stupid is that.The prime example is Tim Swiel.Tim has talent but to much is expected at a very young age.We forget the fact that these players are only human as well.I think in the modern game there needs an age limit set for senior player levels.Only once you pass the 21st mark in life could you become eligible for selection to top tier rugby.

 

It gives young players to develop mentally and  physically.It will also stop the search for the holy grail play maker.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
31 Jul 2014, 14:59
#2
31 Jul 2014, 14:59#2
 Top post FA. We have this crazy idea that each and every youngster with the faintest sign of potential has to be thrown in at the deep end. It is stupid. I have always said that the James O'Connors of the world are few and far between. We do not allow the youngsters enough time to develop in the lower leagues. Two years ago Johan Goosen was punted to be the one flyhalf to "topple Dan Carter off his throne". What happened? In 2010 Lambie and Jantjies were punted to be the two flyhalves who were going to win us the 2011 RWC.

You do not just throw them in at the deep end. We are not in the eighties, when all rugby players were part time players, any more.

Problem is that coaches, and supporters for that matter, is in this "win at all cost right now" mode and stuff the future.

We forget about players having to mature into the different levels of competition. No other current youngster, at fullback, has the balls to take up and unders the way that Willie le Roux is doing. I made be 100% wrong but, for me, the key lies in the fact that he was not pushed into that position and at that level as a 20/21 year old. He made his Bok début two months before he turned 23 and that, in the books of a many supporters, makes him a "late starter" for a back-line player.


BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
31 Jul 2014, 15:19
#3
31 Jul 2014, 15:19#3
It is very evident that if a young player gets injured because he has been rushed or makes a mistake or two he can be crucified by some elements. We need to handle gifted youngsters wisely.


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
31 Jul 2014, 16:02
#4
31 Jul 2014, 16:02#4

One of my 17 year olds is playing for Sarries men's 7's side this Friday, along with 3 others from my sons school side last season, one of whom is playing for Bath, the other Saints and the other London Welsh.

 

Some of these games are being televised on BT Sports I think.

 

Ethan the 17 year old is a fantastic talent and being introduced into adult rugby through 7's  

MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
31 Jul 2014, 16:25
#5
31 Jul 2014, 16:25#5
"To young or to stupid?"

LMFAO, thats classic,
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
31 Jul 2014, 16:31
#6
31 Jul 2014, 16:31#6
Sas you have to excuse the dumb soldier  
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
31 Jul 2014, 17:11
#7
31 Jul 2014, 17:11#7
They should be on BT this Friday.The games this week are at Franklin's Gardens.  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
31 Jul 2014, 17:13
#8
31 Jul 2014, 17:13#8
 
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
31 Jul 2014, 17:23
#9
31 Jul 2014, 17:23#9
Your ?  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
31 Jul 2014, 17:48
#10
31 Jul 2014, 17:48#10
 Hook , line and sinker...................
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
31 Jul 2014, 18:26
#11
31 Jul 2014, 18:26#11
Says the pedant that has spent an age telling others they can't spell and know nothing about anything, simply because they disagree with him.
Oh and he also repeats, verboten, things that others have said about people he has never met and will never meet.
Yep, a man that can be trusted and one we should all bow down to.
Please raise your "it doesn't be mad to work here but it helps " mug and join Ceradyne in a self congratulatory coffee. 
He really is the man.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
31 Jul 2014, 18:32
#12
31 Jul 2014, 18:32#12

Yeah Ethan's mom said she thought it was on BT sport, was going to take the day off and come watch but too busy.

 

Becs this is the kid that has been at Saints for years and has jumped ship. He has always played openside at Sarries but started playing inside centre for us a few seasons back and did the same at school - that's where he wants to play, but Saints were set in their ways and did not want to try him there.

 

He has moved to Sarries and they have stuck him straight into the adults side, he is off to Limerick the week after  

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
31 Jul 2014, 18:38
#13
31 Jul 2014, 18:38#13
 Yeah right Becs. Still nothing on the OP, though.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
31 Jul 2014, 21:56
#14
31 Jul 2014, 21:56#14
"Bow down to" ....what a pity we weren't taught grammar.
FO
ForeverArizonaClub Pro580 posts
31 Jul 2014, 23:25
#15
31 Jul 2014, 23:25#15

 SARU spends a lot of money on specialist coaching.If it is not on defence it is on attack and then at the break downs.A few examples are Richie Gray that was brought in to the Springbok mix to sort out our issues at the break down.Then at the Sharks(Cant remember the name) a peripheral vision coach was brought in to help the Sharks on defense...How good did that work out for the Sharks?So good that they are watching the final at home rather then playing in it...LOL

 

My point is this:We seem to be head hunting youngster's in the hope of finding some one that will solve all our rugby problems.Players are then rushed in (Prime example Handre Pollard) and played till they can not stand any more.The main reason Frans Steyn struggles with a knee problem today is because at a very young age he was put in at the deep end to help us win at the cost of his own health.Is SARU going to give him a new knee when he is 65?They bloody cant even get his image rights square.

 

Then there is Goosen.A very talented youngster that clearly has the ability to see a gap and has the guts to take it.Where is he now?Not even in selection sights...A typical case of too much to soon.

 

Why cant we have long serving individuals that are at the top of their game the likes of Dan Carter or Nonu or Wilkonson.The fact of the matter is bar Le Roux we have a serious problem with our backs.The skill level is inadequate.And those that are promising are thrown in at the deep end to young and we sit with a long list of injuries.

 

Why do you you think Meyer keeps selecting older players?Its because they are conditioned harder players that can go the distance.Deny it all you want.Just look at how early we are getting younger players in...so early that they are still in school.Next year Henry Immelman will be a Springbok!!!!

 

We need an improvement in player management and control.That or we could ruin young players careers before they even started...just ask Goosen he will tell you all about it.   

FO
ForeverArizonaClub Pro580 posts
01 Aug 2014, 01:14
#16
01 Aug 2014, 01:14#16

 Ceradyne

 

That people would think that at the age of 23 a player is a late starter is beyond me.Like you say it is duo to the mere fact that he made his debut at 23 that he is the success that he is.

— END OF THREAD —

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