Too much talk..Lets review what we have seen!

All I hear is too many people saying, "Boks are kak! AB's are the ones to beat!" but is that really the case. Lets look back on the championship so far.

Every team bar the Springboks have had the luxury of playing a full strength team in this championship and, although results have not gone our way, we have done outstandingly with what we have. It bodes really well for the future. Can you see the Bok squad for the future starting to take shape. Daniel and Potgieter were there, now they fringe players, Marcell Coetzee, whilst good and deserves to be there, is used off the bench now. Goosen should be coming in for Steyn in the home leg. Hougaard shifted to wing as he doesnt suit our game plan at 9.

Lets not forget, the Boks are the only team this year that has been to Argentina so kiwi's and aussies...PASOP!!! Go google that...Yes we drew with them there but I am glad we didnt win because that game was needed to shake things up. It was after that game Daniel and Potgieter were out of favour and we started seeing Beeno's power pack come forth. Had we had Beeno's power pack that day, we may have not got slaughtered at breakdown and given ourselves a much better platform for attacking rugby. Argentina choked us. Suffocation of note and thats why we played poorly. The smaller guys got hit backwards all day and we witnessed a Springbok pack who have been labelled "bullies" be bullied! I was once one of you that had a go at Beeno but read his posts with an open mind and not what you been told to think! Bok rugby needs a big pack. No two ways about it.

At home, it is the Boks who actually defeated the Argentines more comfortably out of the 3 tri nations teams. We were always in cruise mode and we just butchered a few scoring chances as guys were getting to know each other. Argentina had travelled less at that stage and would have been even more fired up as it was their first appearance. NZL battled to get anything going against Argentina and Australia nearly lost at home.

Boks outclassed Aus in the 1st half and we faded away. Boks were much better than AB;s on the weekend and it was ultimately missed opportunities from poor handling or goal kicking that cost the Boks a "big" win rather than great AB play! Now we have the home leg to get it right.

On conclusion, the log points is what matters but I have a good feeling moving forward. NZL will win the rugby championship but their best players are at the end..Our best players are up and coming...2013 is the year to put your house on the Boks winning it. A few changes like Jordaan for JDV, serfontein will be a year older, wiser and experienced at first class rugby. Frans Steyn with Jordaan for Sharks and Boks..What more can you want. Habana reinvigorated with a fresh JP. Maybe JP at 15 as a big fullback to hit the line off our centres. We have identified which youth will take us forward and what experience is still needed and rome wasn't built in a day. Although Heyneke frustrates me when he persists with Morne, he is still a coach that took the bulls from the dregs to the champagne. He will do the same for the Boks!

The Bok fans make very little sense, they demand results, yet demand that Meyer rebuild. They bleat how Meyer needs to deliver now, yet exclaim how we should not expect our up-and-coming players like Goosen to be ready now. It's a mess, and is leading to a lot of nonsense that we read. The fact of the matter is that we have done exceptionally well, our defence has been rock solid for the vast majority of these tests, which is a real turning point for the Boks. Meyer needs to rebuild our pack and unfortunately with that is the foundation for everything else. Keo bleated how we should disregard our pack and start running it, but this is complete suicide. Even with a powerful pack in 2008, the running game failed spectacularly. We need to be patient and we need to fathom some perspective.

So far we have completely outclassed the All Blacks on home soil. I don't think the fans appreciate how much that has shaken them. They are supposed to be without equal. It's much like the very lucky escape against the Bok C/D team in 2007. They were not expecting that, and it must have been in the back of their minds. Now they know they are not invincible, Argentina will take heart and they have two very tricky away games to play. They do not traditionally find trips to Argentina at all easy, and the Boks know they are the better of them and await home soil eagerly.  

You can't say the Wallabies have had the luxury of blooding a full strength team. They have 9 of their best 22 unavailable inc. Horwill, Pocock, Genia, Timani, JOC.

What we have seen since June:

NZ: 7/7

OZ: 5/7

SA: 3/7

Australia have had every option available to them, and a lot of the so called best players are in fact inferior to some of their inexperienced Brumbie counterparts, i.e., Beale v Mogg. So Deans has had many options at hand to cover nearly every angle.  But if Deans has displayed anything as Aussie coach, it is complete ineptitude. 

 Timani and Genia have both played and only recently gotten injured. Its going to be a tough road back for Pocock with Hooper cementing himself there now. Hooper is a more complete player. Pocock pushes boundaries too much and gives away plenty penalties for it. Hooper knows when to and when not to. The only player the Aussies have really missed is Horwill and now they will miss Genia.

Every team bar the Springboks have had the luxury of playing a full strength team in this championship

Rubbish. As said above Wallabies have missed O Connor, Horwill, Pocock and Moore cuz of injury & now theyve lost Genia & Timani. They have been hit evn harder than the Bokke.

ABs have missed Carter, C Smith to injury & now theyve lost Sonny Bill.

Every team has injuries. Dont make it an excuse for Bokke crap peformance. We are crap becuase of clowns like M Steyn and H meyer, not because of injuries.

Stop talking CRAP!!!!

 Carter, Smith and Sonny Bill have all played this championship havent they. Sonny bill is not an injury either. If you comparing Sonny Bill then we can say we missing Juan Smith, Victor Matfield and Os Du Randt..

What excuses have been made? I am not saying we are shit because of injury, I am saying with what we are going through, I am very proud to be a Bok supporter and feel we are in a good place and will be even better when we get our front line players back. We are blooding youngsters for whatever reason and it will put us in a good position later on..I am merely implying that we, unlike the Aussies and AB's are on the right track.

This is the same thing you do to Beeno. Take what he says and put your own spin on it. Read it properly before commenting.

Well said Boklogic, the Beeno power pack showed on Saturday its the way to go. No sane person can dispute this really. Add in Bissie and Coenie with Flip and Etzebeth at lock and we have a pack to take the wee abs to the cleaners. The forward power is huge and with players to return from injury the abs councellor is having his hands full treating very nervous wee abs!

 As for ou jallopy you coninue to press your claims to being that noted halfwit dorkie dumbo (duke). Yes each side has missing players but, as has been listed numeous times, we have far, far more out. What a compete hatter.

jallopy you are posting on a quality board here so up your game if you can! bwahahhahahahaha

By the way ou Conrad was actually playing on Saturday jallopy but you probably mised him as he was ineffective having been shut out of the game. As Flip said let them run -  but there was nowhere to hide. What a pity it was Morne was so off song. We missed a comfortable well desereved victory.

Card I have to agree this is a serious rebuild and will take time and patience but the signs are here that the Boks are going places. I cant think of any real reson for despondency actually. The Meyer critcs best tone down their rhetoric real quick.

jallopy of course is still calling Meyer a clown but he is mistaking who the real clown is.. bwahahahahahahaha dorkie dumbo type stuff for sure

 OK, so let's leave the banter and the joking for a minute here and be serious about this "situation".  There is a lot of logic and some genuine good comments coming from a lot of posters who seem to know the game, people like Beeno, The Dead Muzo, Boklogic etc.  Even some of Mike and recklesscat's stuff has merit.

Let us say that a Springbok supporter is a coffee lover.  What would be better, a quick cup of cheap instant coffee (which in the end is tasteless and best forgotten) or a nice cup of well brewed "boeretroos" perculated coffee (where the taste lingers on and you remember the moment)?

I think we as supporters sometimes are too harsh on players and coaches and expect instant results.  Remember that this coach did not have the luxury of inheriting a team with a strong and experienced nucleus.  Neither did he have a lot of time to prepare and to sort the players out.  Ever since he started it has been more knee-jerk than planned.  Some players are clearly not performing as well as is expected and are under par.  Various reasons for this could exist, some may still be slightly injured, other may be over played and need a rest who knows.  We are so quick to condamn and shout, yet we are not aware of what actually happens in the camp.  Some of us loudly and repeatedly air our opinions on players as if we are the only experts in the world.  Clearly we are all full of pasion and emotionally charged because we want our team to perform.  

You cannot chop and change players from one week to the other.  You cannot put players in a situation that may ruin their futures (Gaffie syndrome).  Yes there are some injuries to key players, yes, we need a better gameplan or at least a better working one (if it is the plan and not the players).

But I think most of all we as supporters need patients and we need to support the efforts of the coach and his assistants other than rambling on and on about the same silly issues over and over and calling players and posters names - THAT will not rectify the issues the players are faced with.

More positive comments and better understanding added to some respect will go a long way.

lots of sound stuff from the lunatic. However one will never eliminate passion and the words associated with it.

At bottom it was a question of whether Meyer was a rugby pdv or a genuine coach. But the different views have led to deeper insight and I myself woud not change what has been said apart from a few  line crossings by some of us at times but even that has an economy of its own when managed.

Much of the criticism has been valid but to me the conclusion - meyer is a crap coach, a disproportionat blaming of Morne at times - was on the wrong track. Surely Meyer deserves a chance.  No guarantees but I think the guy will do us proud.

Dook, Australia have been hit harder than the Boks? Here is exactly what the Boks have lost this year:

Victor Matfield, John Smit, Bakkies Botha, Jaque Fourie, Danie Rossouw, Juan Smith, Fourie Du Preez, Schalk Burger, Pierre Spies, JP Pietersen, Siyamthanda Kolisi, Gurthro Steenkamp, Bismarck du Plessis, Chiliboy Ralepelle

Not to mention that Jannie du Plessis, Bryan Habana, Pat Cilliers and a few others have been carrying injuries and the fact that they lost Etzebeth and now Greyling. It all adds up to how stretched Bok resources have been.  

Retardcat, I realize yr just a rugby n00b but let me fill u in on a few facts...

Victor Matfeild - retired

John Smit - retired

Bakkies Botha - playing in France, Meyer too thick 2 negotaite Bakkies avalablty

Jacque Fourie - playing in Japan

Fourie du Preez - playing in Japan

Guthro Steenkamp - playing in France

None of those r missing cuz they injured u stupid crybaby!!

Dorkie allow me to explain it all to you as I always used to  try and set you right. If you take out the retired folk you still have a huge list to which you must also add Coenie and Bissie - two outstanding players.Also Duane Vermuelen was very late in coming back. the fact that players went overseas like kan kan as well also ade life more difficult for anw coach sifting his potential Boks.

 So dorkie as usual you get it all wrong. think before posting dorkie - it may help but then again it possibly  wont help but it could be worth a try. Ou hawker will not be pleased with you making a twit of yourself here. he prefers to keep the twits on gossip girl. hahahahahahahaahahhahahahahahaha those telling the bulle inconvenient truths get banned. How right I was though - the Stormers went up and the bulle down just as I predicted.

Duke, what you do not understand is this, they were part of the Bok player pool and the spine of the team. Take them away, we have lost greatly even before our first test, then add in further injuries. All in all, we have been hit far harder than anybody! 

 Requiescat, let me take this one for u because our good friend Jallopy is having trouble reading....

Jalapeno, where did the cat say "injuries"...From what I can see he said this is what the Boks have lost this year, not what is injured....

That is a shit load of players to lose all at once so that is why Heynecke was not in the fortunate situation of inheriting a team. He has had to build from the start all whilst he had people like u expecting results against seasoned AB's and aussie players...

Had the AB's lost Carter, McCaw, Smith, SBW, Nonu, Read, Mealamu, Whitelock for some reason all in 1 go, how do you think they would cope?

Oh I see, so the ABs can have a cry cuz they "lost" Sean Fitzpatrick, Zinzan Brook and christian Cullen? Shd the Ozzies be sniveling cuz they "lost" Matt Burk , Joe Roff and John Eals?

Tell me u guys are kidding!

This has to be dorkie dumbo (duke) nobody can be dumber than that one - except possibly  for his bedpan. Bwahaahahahahahhaha I had almost forgotten how hopeless dorkie was!

@boklogic great post

the boks has never turned out a bad bok pack. never. big running forwards that enjoying hurting people is the SA forte for all our history. that has never been the problem and will never be one going forward. the biggest difference between the other tests and NZ test has been the advent of the selection of the openside fetcher. if one has 8 forwards that pretty much offer the same skillset across the board from 1 to 8 there will be areas that will be neglected such as the breakdown area. the admission of louw has helped alot to stop the poor breakdown area for the boks. that got badly exposed against the pumas and the wallies as i predictated many a moon ago.

the power pack concept is great if done well but powerfull players can be nulified if they are starved of the ball and are just ranned around the park for 60 + min a game. there needs to be a mix/role based selections whereby certain players compliment each other. opensiders allow the ball carriers to get that endless supply of great ball. for meyer to select a open sider like louw is a massive mindshift which i am very happy to see myself. shows he is finally coming around to understand the basic fundamentals of rugbby. against the ultra rubbish english gymer pack we where not exposed but the rest of the new era rugby nations playing with out a opensider is a accident waiting to happen. you lose the contest at the breakdown you end up losing the game 8/10. the core fundamental is that you need the ball to play the game. can kick and defend of 60 odd min and hope you win by the other teams faults its a flawed mentality

stormers proved that that style does not yeild results. its simply does not work. you need 1 to 15 in the game and up tempo dymanic rugby pattern is the future for rugby. the IRB wants it and most importantly the paying rugby public wants it.

we bullied the AB and to be fair i felt the AB was not playing nearly as well as they can but there backs still managed to pip us with rubbish ball they received. that shows how badly we are lacking. the rugby public is is unpatient but we need to understand that meyer will get nowhere with laubscher as his backline coach. i would suggest meyer makes his own life helluva lof easier and just get rid of laubscher or just get a specialist attacking consultant/skills coach in. the outcry by joe public shows that people are fed up with the rubbish kick and chase plan and want to see a more entertaining brand of rugby.

i will give credit when credit is due and the boks pack played like men posessed against the AB. the ab to me was not firing at all so i know and feel they have at least maybe another 30 odd % left in the tank so the return leg will be a great watch. it is a building phase for the boks but there needs to be better communication from meyer to the general public and assurance that the boks wont be stuck in a twilight zone in terms of game tactics and that the backline will come good. i do feel a player like jordaan goosen taute lambie will add so much speed spice and skills to the bok setup that they just need a game plan and backline coach that can use them correctly and the end results will take care of themselves.

brussouw the rolls royce of opensiders also needs to get his chance to prove that he is light years better than louw. by far the world premier breakdowns specialist. we need that mongrel mentailty at the breakdown

muncher keep watching and you will learn. Louw will not be replaced by brussouw barring injuries etc. There has been huge applause for this trio. Vermuelen is getting fit and so is Louw so they will only get better.

But we still need to get the real power pack on display but thankflly Meyer is heading in the right direction. weg is wee daniel and no sign of wee brussouw. juandre's -110 kg - shares have dipped as well and in Meyers mind he is probly number 4. Hopefully Meyer will look next year to the 118 kg mobile battler Elstadt who can cover 7 as well.

The bigger Bissie will also be back and although it was very pleasing to see Beast playing better I will not be surprised if we do not see Coenie - 127 kg in the front row. Politically a hot potatato drop beast so Coenie may take Jannie's spot at some point. We shall see.

So muncher I cant see the pack getting smaller. It is pretty much the best pack in the world right now and can only get better and in doing so will get bigger as explained.  Young Coetzee will neeed to work on power and will do so. At 106kg he is a bit small right now but will progress to 110 kgs in the natural course of things. Kolisi will battle even more and one wonders if he can make it 101 kg now? - I am talking about a merit selection  test rugby is very demanding physically. Daniel is history.

So tough luck on the small guys but there is still scrumhalf left . No squaking now but snapsters 90 kg bench mark is under threat. Its all so obvious it should be on ruby 101 page 2 of the manual. muncher is stuck on page 1! Hahaahhaahahahhahaha

 @Beeno. Is "ha" your favourite word or the only one you can spell? If you're going to use it extensively (a lot), then you need to put a comma between each "ha".

Anyway enough of the grammar lesson. I'm pleased you want the Bok pack to get bigger; that way it will be easier for the ABs and Wallabies to run your BBBs around the park until they are blowing hard enough for our backs to run through them!

As I said in a previous post, a 10 point loss to the ABs has really proved the Bok pack is superior so in your words: ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha!

Boklog - the reason we hear the so called moaning and groaning is simply because we are so proud of our Boks and it hurts when we lose. Do not confuse the comments and posts as negative but rather intense passion at its most fervent. The issue is when a lot of the comments turn into nasty stuff from various posters as this seems to intensify the arguments making many molehills into moutains. And before ypu say anything more - yes I have been guilty of this also. 

We never like to play tests without our best players as this usually exposes little weaknesses that werent there when the incumbents were in the squad. Nonetheless, we play what we play as we always have done so. There have been various other times where the Boks have had to manage with high injury counts but have still managed to maintain competitiveness due to the quality and large player base we have in SA.

I agree wholeheartedly that the future bodes well for the youth coming through but they will only ever become great if they are given the tools and coaching and gameplan to implement rather than the usual 10 man bash stuff we have become use to over the last 20 years.

Be careful when leaning on the so called 'beeno power pack' as the reason we matched it up with the AB's. To me the intensity, aggresion and the history between our two nations played more into this game than the so called 'power pack'. When you go back and review the game the AB's were just as intense and punched back as much as we did. I will continue with my long held view that 'intelligence' will always beat 'power'. However, there were more good parts than more bad parts during the match which gives hope. Argentina will challenge the Wallabies and AB's at home but TBH they will go a year more before they will upset one of the big 3.

We should have put the Argies away by more I agree with that and yes we performed better than OZ and the AB's. Nonetheless, the argument is moot as SA then went on and drew the next game. The NZ game was played in atrocious conditions and at no stage did the Argies look like they would win anyway there was never going to be a points galore in Wellington. The Wallabie game was a bit more closer but we all saw the Argies being awarded a try after stepping on the touchline and OZ were a weaker beast without Genia, However, what does it matter at this level on how many points you win by? Would the Boks of complained if we managed to score that one extra point in Mendoza? Winning consistently is more important than winning looking good.

The issue it appears at this stage is the fact that we have failed to maintain 80 minutes of intense pressure and make ready our opportunities. If you look at the kicks that we missed three were simply by not having the distance so the decision to take them may have been a bit harsh. The other kicks were not all givens and remember that Cruden also missed 3 kicks. Yes we missed a probable certain try and it hurts but 'shit happens'. We lost because we failed to complete opportunities and that means we didnt play well - we just maintained the pressure on the AB's for a period of time whom managed in the end to score more points due to our ill disipline

Player renewal and maintaing youth is important but not as important as leadership, experience, composure, belief and team cohesion through familiarity. If you see what the AB's are doing at the moment you would see that they probably have more youth coming through than we do? Retellick, Romano, Cruden, Cane, Faumuina, Barret, Aron Smith, Savea so we aren't the only nation with youth and talent coming through.

 Radtad. You talk a lot of sense.

I get incensed when some of your countrymen, who shall remain nameless, spout on about how the Boks are now world beaters! All this after one test against the ABs which you could have won with better place kicking.

I say could have, as if some of those kicks had gone over then the ABs would have no doubt changed their gameplan! It would be like me saying if Andrew Mehrtens had got a couple of dropkicks over in the 1995 WC Final then we would've been Champions! The point is, he didn't and we weren't! The rest is purely conjecture.

I'm really embarrassed for you having to read some of the rubbish spewing from Beeno and the Cat.

I get annoyed that NZ is nowhere near as good as your cricket team but when we do get the occasional win over you, I wouldn't dream of getting on a blog claiming we were now superior.

The Boks used to be able to foot it with us but  since re-entry we've had the wood on you for 20 years give or take a few occasions.

So keep up the good posts. You seem to have a good handle on the state of International rugby as it now stands. 

 Moolaa, are those the kind of posts that keep the chicks gagging for you..What a nerd!! For years people type hahahahahah because it gets the point across. Had this been an essay for marks, maybe we would take your thoughts on board and in return, teach you how to be cool..Dont become another kiwi on here just looking to stir... Why would a big pack "blow" any harder than another. End of the day, we not talking a difference of 100kg's a person. We merely talking 5 to 10 kgs here. These men are athletes and I have seen the biggest guys go all day...Schalk, Rossouw, Spies, Juan Smith, Kieran Read, Kaino, Bakkies, Brad Thorn...All 80 min players and will go hard all game.

Radtad, you do make some good points and whilst I agree that brains over braun, SA do not play to a brainy game plan and lets face it, we not about to change that. Our game plan requires hard men getting stuck in for 80 mins and big guys are so much better at doing it. We all saw what happened with a smaller pack with this game plan against the argies. We were completely ineffective to a point where it became hard and frustrating to watch.

If our backline this past weekend had Goosen starting, Jordaan at 13 and Lambie at 15, no doubt we would have won. Our forwards gave the backs a great platform but we threw the ball into touch twice, passed behind players one on one with the tryline and kicked some aimless grubbers and chip kicks when we should have gone wide..We need natural ball runners. Thats what Goosen, Jordaan and Lambie offer. They look to attack before kick. No use having a defensive backline and at the mo, JDV is poor on defence and not attacking like he used to. I think 12 is his position!

Cant wait to see these forwards dominate with an attacking backline! Ricardo Loubsher must stay out of it and not turn those players into kickers!

 @Boklogic. That's where you're wrong my friend. BIG men don't run all day; they tire, otherwise we'd have Bakkies and Thorn running in the Olympic Marathon!  As the ABs pack has always been smaller we nearly always outlast your forward pack. Witness Saturday's test when the Boks went hard for 70 minutes but were under the cosh at the end.

Our strategy has always been to run the Bok forwards ragged and clean up in the last 20. Who could forget the test at Soweto where the Boks were run down by a fitter team?

So bigger isn't better as Meyer thinks. He'd better start developing a backline but as you probably realise, that aint gonna happen!

 I that was the case then why aren't Messam, Daniel and the rest of the smaller guys running the Olympic marathon too? 

Yes, they do tire, the same as any other player if they have been giving it their all for 70 mins. These guys are trained and conditioned for this. The AB's team pre-WC were just unbelievably fit. No other team came close to their fitness levels then.

Will be interesting to see what happens in SA. I dont know why the Boks dont play the AB's in Ellis Park (coca cola park) or Loftus because the AB's battle at those venues. We should never play the AB's at the coastal venues because they like that...I would like to see if we can right the wrongs of Soweto last game and even it up 1 all...

Boklog,

Yep sadly the game we play requires big men to be effective however all I am stating and I have stood fast to this message all the time. It is a simple recipe and history tells us so and I get fustrated more than anyone why we dont learn? If what we are doing has not worked then why do we persist with that madness? Why cant we breed or train better skills, better techniquies, better stratergies instead of holding onto that which we know best, but to that which is not the best way forward!!

I agree HM needs time but wow we are SA and we are now asking accepting the fact that we are not the force we use to be because we had retirements and injuries....when is SA going to wake up and start being smarter about our player welfare and fitness programmes.

SA knew prior to the RWC that we were going to lose a heap of test caps and that we would need to plan for injuries. TBH our Boks have done a fantastic job in keeping themselves competitive and still in with a chance - Im not that ignorant to think that they havent managed througfh some challenges.

The beenbrains of this world continue to bleat absolute garbage but if we dont change the obvious then we will continue to get the obvious back!!!! SA have always struggled to play 80 minute rugby and that is why SA have never dominated modern rugby because when you start running around the paddock the first man to get tired and slow up is the bigger men. Thats not rocket science its common sense.

It doesn't matter who we have in our backline play at the moment if the instruction is to continue as per status quo. Nonetheless, we still need the key components: leadsership, experience, mentorship, belief and talent as youth alone will not win us much.

Bok logic these bleaters are hoping to overcome your sound post under a mountain of words.

Now I ask you did this big Bok pack tire in the game we just saw. No. Schalk burger has NO equal when it comes to stamina. Vermulen and Louw are not even fully fit and they lasted .Etzebeth gets stronger as the game goes on. Bissie can play 80 minutes and make you pay. The only forward that has a bit of a fitness problem could be Alberts - but hey did you knwo one can have say 5 forwards on the bench!!!!!!). Coenie by the way is simply amazing how he gets around the park. These men are big but they are also athletes. nz doent have them in the quality or quantity we do - fact. Crash goes moola and his support man ragtad.

Moola please oak dont mention our cricket team to yours in the same breath as we are in another league. Pre isolation we were your betters and I am suggesting that the markets revert to their mean and I see a momentum change happening. Get your head out from under the sand moola. It is an incovenient truth but a truth nevertheless. The Boks are on the rise and getting ready to take their natural place at number 1.

Sorry to be the one breaking this heartbreaking news to the kiwis but it is necessary. I ask all kiwi bird brains to explain the abs future on nz rugby websites. Prepare them for the worst oaks. Bwahahahahahahahaha

@bakedbeens,

All your so called ideals and assumptions because thats all they are can be simply answered with one answer

Since 1992:

NZ 33 wins

SA 13 wins

Now please explain to where in that equation are we dominating the AB's? I really look forward to your response or shall I already post it up "Beenos power pack"

Been, there is a saying in life and it goeslike this:

There are people that make it happen

There are people that watch it happen

And then there is you who wondered what happened!!!!

 @Logic. My draw says the ABs vs Boks game is in Joburg at that Soweto Stadium but I stand to be corrected.

@Beeno. What do you make of Radtad's statistics old son? A  28.26% win ratio for the Boks against the ABs since 1992. My head is well and truly out of the sand.

By the way. Pre-isolation = Pre-neutral refs able to be bought by the likes of Louis Luyt!

@moolaa..Yeah I think the game is in Soweto but what I mean is more so than the area, it is the tradition of the stadium. Ellis park has great tradition for the Boks and I could be wrong but I heard somewhere that the Boks have beaten the AB's more times in Ellis Park than the AB's have beaten the Boks and that is massive especially because AB's have dominated the Boks in overall wins since 92...

Now I dont say the stadium has some sorts of magic powers but it must be a mixture of history (like the 95 wc final), the crowd being so close to the pitch and the hostile nature and altitude that the kiwi's are not used to. AB's battle at altitude in the last 20mins... Soweto has no history for the Boks and we were beating NZL there comfortably in the last test match there until all of a sudden our guys couldnt run anymore. Bad omen for us but I feel we can correct it when the AB's return in a couple weeks. Its a home game and opposition should be made to feel it when they arrive at the stadium. We do not particularly like to play in Dunedin or Eden Park so the AB's put us there. We much prefer Hamilton or the likes and NZL made that mistake in 09'. I just hope moving forward that the AB's play at altitude when playing SA. Even though I was from Durban and like to watch the Boks play, the coastal venues dont affect the opposition as much.

I also see a lot of posts from people saying SA played out of their skins and NZL didnt fire...How do we know that NZL has more to give? Maybe people are putting them on a pedastal and are "fearing" them too much. What have they really done to think they are better than they are?

They should have lost the WC to France, they scraped past an understrength aussie team and then scored only 2 tries against them at home, they looked crap against the Pumas and the Boks had the wood on them yet I still hear people saying, "Wait until they click!" What does that mean? Every team will have those games once in a while where they blitz the opposition but a once of "click" means nothing. I just think more and more teams should follow the Pumas of 2 weeks ago and the Boks of last week and not stand back for them. Dont show them too much respect because they are not the "unbeatable" force people think they are.

All I have seen is a whipping of the Irish who just couldnt find the same passion in the third test that they did in the 2nd. Let me say those meaningless words too..."Wait until the Boks click!"

Personally, I think the AB's are playing as well as ever. They will have their nights when they are on fire but so will the Aussies and Bokke and any other team for that matter. France lost badly in the pool games to NZ and Tonga and turned it around a week or 2 later..Why? Did the AB's "not click?" No, the problem was the French played with passion and showed no fear or respect to the AB's and they nearly turned a bad defeat into a win. How does that happen? DONT SHOW THE AB's TOO MUCH RESPECT. THEY NOT AS GOOD OR SCARY AS PEOPLE MAKE OUT.

@Boklog,

I wonder also why we dont go more often to Ellis park as it is our fortress and our results there certainly are in our favour. I gather it is more aligned to sponsorship and politics to why it is not used more often????? We need to make every ground in SA a fortress rather than just Ellis Park.

The reason lots of posters are stating that we played out of our skins is because we werent expected to push the AB's as what we saw because of the lack of experience and doubt over selections and gameplans. There was a lot of discussion everywhere not just from this forum and many rugby expert's from SA and NZ were all pointing to a sound victory for the AB's and in the end they result was sound with 10 point buffer. However we all know that that is far from the truth. 

Know body knows if the AB's have more to give but the same can be attributed to us and the Wallabies - was this the best we can do? Its not the people putting them on the pedestal if there is this fear that is happening it would be the coach and his own players that are putting the AB's on the pedestal - afterall they are the ones that play them on the field not us!

"What have they really done to think they are better than they are?"

No sure my friend on how to answer this question but I will give iit a try. The trait of being a winner is to believe. Winning breeds attitude and success. While losses breed negative and when you play your hearts out and you still cant win then confidence starts playing funny mindgames on the brain. All they have done is win 4 games in a row - as I said to you earlier win consistently not win looking good. Would SA be feeling the same way if we played like crap but won 4 games in a row???? I think not!!!

I am sure there are some kiwi posters who can argue your points about whether or not France were robbed or that they scrapped past a weak Aussie team or that they looked crap against Argentina or that we had the wood on them or that the Irish failed to find pasison in the 3rd test.

But be careful what you say as we need to ask ourselves why we are sitting 3rd on the points table against a weak Wallaby team and an All Black team that we should have beaten let alone answering why we drew our test against the Argies. I suggest we look at us rather than worry too much about our opposition at this point in time anyway.

Yes of course they are  beatable, SA is the only nation that has been able to match them physically and had periods where we have dominated them. We just havent been able to do it consistently. The discussions I read and the commentries I have listened too always have the Kiwis showing massive resopect to the Boks and that is why they take the games so seriously when we play them. Our Boks also show that respect and we have seen some amazing clashes between our two nations that no other countries are capable of producing. 

"Wait until the Boks click!" - Yep I am waiting more than any one else and the trick is to do it more trhan once.

I may come across as being in the corner of NZ but that is not the truth at all. What I am and have always done is to simply question why with all the player talent and depth, infrastructure, sponsorship and money that SA rugby has availble that we have never lived up to our potential and promise that we so richly deserve. I have said many many times "If we keep doing what we do then we will keep getting what we get" My argument is not about fear of the AB's it has always been about how to advance our game through duplicating what the best do and there is no team on earth that comes close to their record. Lets stop with the notion that SA only can play one style of rugby as that is utter crap - change of attitude!

 "DONT SHOW THE AB's TOO MUCH RESPECT . THEY NOT AS GOOD OR SCARY AS PEOPLE MAKE OUT" - Bok yes to this point but at the moment they are better than SA, Argentina and the Wallabies - They have always been a click ahead with smarter decision making and better tactics and the ability to adapt to the challenges in front of them - I cannot say the same about the Boks in the last 3 games.

Bokpilla the more likely result is an ab  loss or close match. 23 points - Bwahahahahahhaha we have a planet rugby type wacko here.