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Top Centres Tackling Success Rate .2014

Started by 3ku122 REPLIES374 VIEWS· 06 May 2014, 17:29
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3K
3ku1
Pro2,580 posts
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
06 May 2014, 17:29
#1
06 May 2014, 17:29#1

Anyone interested for all the top high profile super rugby centres, heres their tackling success rate. 


Conrad Smith: 89.6 % Tackles Made 91 Tackles Missed 11 Games Played 10


Juan De Jongh: 79.1 % Tackles Made 34 Tackles Missed 9 Games Played 6


Paul Jordaan: 91.4% Tackles Made 32 Tackles Missed 3 Games Played 5


Ryan Crotty: 82.4% Tackles Made 61 Tackles Missed 13 Games Played 9


Johan Sadie: 87.2 % Tackles Made 75 Tackles missed 11 Games Played


Ma'A Nonu: 83.7% Tackles Made 36 Tackles 

Missed 7 Games Played 5


Charlie Ngtai: 82.6 % Tackles Made 19 

Tackles Missed 4 Games played 4


JJ enbrachndt: 89.7% Tackles Made 78 

Tackles Missed 9 Games Played 11


Malakai Fekitoa: 79.4 % Tackles Made 40 

Tackles Missed 11 Games Played 9


Teviti Kudrani: 80.6 % Tackles Made 52 Tackles Missed 9 Games Played 


Adam Ashley Cooper: 82.8% Tackles Made 

48 Tackles Missed 10 Games Played 10


Ben Taupai: 84.4 % Tackles Made 38 Tackles Missed 7 Games Played 10


Damian De Allande: 82.4% Tackles Made 61 Tackles Missed 13 Games Played 10


Top Nz Centres Tackling Succes Rate:


1. Conrad Smith

2. Ma'a Nonu

3. Charlie Ngtai

4. Ryan Crotty

5. Malakai Fekitoa


Aus Centres Top Tackle Sucess Rates:


1.  Ben Taupai

2. AAC

3. Tevita Kudrani


Sa Centres Top Tackle Success Rate:


1. Paul Jordaan

2. JJ

3. Johan Sadie

4. De Allande

5. Juan De Jongh

6. Francois Steyn


Overall Top Tackle Sucess Rate:

1. Paul Jordaan

2. JJ

3. Conrad Smith

4. Johan Sadie

5.  Ben Taupai

6. Ma'a Nonu

7. Aac

8. Charlie Ngtai

9. Ryan Crotty

10. Damian De Allande

11. Tevita Kudrani

12. Malakai Fekitoa

13. Juan De Jongh

14.  Francois Steyn

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 May 2014, 18:00
#2
06 May 2014, 18:00#2
 Why did you leave out Francois Steyn - He played 8 of his 10 matches at center.  You have caused me some trouble now - I will have to calculate it and add it to the list.
Steyn's success rate was 72,82%
Lets look at the SA list now:-

1. Paul Jordaan

2. JJ

3. Johan Sadie

4. Juan De Jongh

5. Francois Steyn


Now for the combined overall list  :-  


Overall Top Tackle Sucess Rate:

1. Paul Jordaan

2. JJ

3. Conrad Smith

4. Johan Sadie

5.  Ben Taupai

6. Ma'a Nonu

7. Charlie Ngtai

8. Ryan Crotty

9. Aac

10. Tevita Kudrani

11. Malakai Fekitoa

12. Juan De Jongh

13  Francois Steyn


Interesting enough the bottom 2 is on Mozart's wish list - three of the top 4 positions are SA centers he dislikes with a passion.   Says a lot - does it not. 

SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
06 May 2014, 19:04
#3
06 May 2014, 19:04#3
Yep case closed on the bullshit surrounding JJ and his inability to tackle - Dave rules yet again  
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 May 2014, 19:19
#4
06 May 2014, 19:19#4
 Saffex
Wait for the normal  "process tackle" bullshit  story of Mozart here.  
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 May 2014, 19:28
#5
06 May 2014, 19:28#5

We need the distance lost while making the tackle stat, to make sense of these numbers....also the number of times the player needed help to make the tackle. JJ hasn't made one clean tackle that I have seen.

 

We also need to recognize some players try to make "forcing" tackles ie take a shot at a diving tackle, often on a kick chase, to isolate a runner. Other players wouldn't be seen dead trying that kind of low percentage tackle for the team.

 

As for de Jongh it's too small a sample set....likewise Jordaan. For example, exclude the last game and de Jongh vaults to 85%.  

SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
06 May 2014, 19:49
#6
06 May 2014, 19:49#6

As I said - case closed - the next time I read this shit about JJ's defence, I'll just refer to the above

 

 

Did I mention the words ' case closed'?

MD
Monkey D Luffy
Pro6,277 posts
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
06 May 2014, 20:21
#7
06 May 2014, 20:21#7
lolz, case closed all right,
KI
kingcorn
Pro3,695 posts
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
06 May 2014, 21:11
#8
06 May 2014, 21:11#8
 Can we have some context to this? Did the missed tackle during the phase of play result in a try or was it a clear line break?
I would also like to know where on the field did it happen, own 22, half way line, opponents half? 
Was it broken play or etc...?
JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
06 May 2014, 21:33
#9
06 May 2014, 21:33#9
3ku1: good thread mate . Introducing stats to a long debated topic might be embarrassing to some posters but one in particular is agile enough to cope, lol
Moz: how would these stats look if age was taken into account? This could be a way out for you  
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 May 2014, 23:26
#10
06 May 2014, 23:26#10
Well you know I have a soft spot for the older player JW....but I have to say I can't see the correlation. Sapp ask Benjamin if he thinks JJ can tackle......I'm not much bothered by these raw stats. I could for example post JJ's stats for last test season where he made 39 and missed 11 for a success rate of 78%.....and the RC losing missed tackle on Barrett.  The man can't tackle, he can cling on and using these raw stats he looks ok....but he's not.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 May 2014, 00:01
#11
07 May 2014, 00:01#11
 Mozart
it is not raw stats as you say.  It takes into account the total number of tackles made during the series thus far and determine the success rate as against those attempted tackles.
Tackle stats in one match does not mean much - in a series of matches it does,   It indicates whether the player has a tendency to miss tackles.   
You keep on attacking players you do not like with vague allegations of poor play and try and cover for those you like.  Lets take three examples.   Last year Jordaan's successful tackle ratio was 94%  - this year it is 91,4%.   That indicates he indeed does make an extremely high percentage of successful tackles as proven over two seasons.  Similarly De Jongh last year had a 76,62% success rate - thus far this year it was 79,1% - again an indication of correlation over a two season period.   Last year JJ successful tackles were circa 84%, this year it is  89,7% - again a relatively minor variation-
You now start bringing in additional issues - ie the RC of last year.   This deals with the SUPER 15 of this year - not any other competition.  I merely refer to correlation between last years stats and this year as an example.  And you cannot exclude some games like you mentioned in the case of De Jongh to make him look good.
Another issue here is the acceptable percentage missed tackles.   I believe that 15% is the norm - with slight variations either way being acceptable.  However, when you get to 20% and above - it is a real issue for replacement of the player concerned. He is too big a safety risk and too poor as a performer to accommodate in any team.   
It is disgraceful that a player you want to have in the Springbok team - Francois Steyn - is rated as the poorest tackler of the lot.  How do you account for that?  
      

MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 May 2014, 00:30
#12
07 May 2014, 00:30#12
So do we think JJ is as good a defender as Conrad Smith. Of course not....so the stats are flawed. QED

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 May 2014, 00:51
#13
07 May 2014, 00:51#13
Mozart
Stats are stats - they indicate tendencies in players.  A small variation does not mean the one is a better tackler than the other.  A major variation indicates really whether there is a difference in players.  There is a minor variation between the Stats of Conrad Smith and Engelbrecht - so you cannot say Engelbrecht is a better tackler than Conrad Smith.
Where there are indeed problem indications are when you start dealing with major deficiencies - like is the case with De Jongh and Steyn.   That is where you can really say they are the worst defenders as centers in the competition.
There is one other issue as well and that is whether there is a correlation between actual performances other than tackling in respect of specific players.   You get cases where the other factors in performance of players should be borne in mind.   Lets look at a few examples:-
*   Willie le Roux is not a very good tackler - but his other activities on the field of play are excellent.
*   JJ may have good tackle stats - but his other activities is not acceptable - he cannot read games and shows no penetration in attacking play.  
*   De Jongh is a player that occasionally performs well - but also have serious negatives in his performance.   His general play is not good enough to cancel out his tackle deficiencies.
*   Other than kicking at goal - Francois Steyn's other activities is atrociously poor as well.   There is nothing that he really contributes to improved backline performance by his team - he is primarily responsible fr their poor backline performances.
If a player has excellent other abilities a person can always turn a bit of a blind eye to his deficient tackling.  If he has excellent tackle stats and he under-performs in other activiti es - such a player is equally unacceptable.                  
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 May 2014, 01:08
#14
07 May 2014, 01:08#14
Stats are not stats. A tackle is not a definitive thing like a heart attack, or a death or metal failure. It's a highly variable commodity....made near the line, in traffic, in space, aggressively, protectively, with no metres, over 10 metres, with help, without help. All of this wouldn't matter over many trials if there weren't systematic differences. Conrad Smith goes low and finishes the tackle....JJ clings to the runner and often gets help. Five metres from the line you don't want a clinger to make the tackle even if the stats say its all fine.


CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 May 2014, 01:34
#15
07 May 2014, 01:34#15
Mozart
Sure there are variations in tackle quality as well - but in general all players at times make good/hard tackles, at other times effective ones, but they also at times make less effective tackles.   
As you said - stats are not definitive - but over a series it provides indicators of ability and tendencies noticeable in a player.   That is why I am against using stats for one game and say that is the alpha and omega - over a series it is different because a player who has a tendency to miss tackles would continue to do so in future games as well.   
Be it as it may - I believe the issue here is not relating to the quality of the tackles - it relates to a much simpler issue - the question of whether a  player is capable of making tackles and not missing them altogether.   A relatively poor tackle is better than a missed tackle in any event.  
That is why I would rather have players like Jordaan, Sadie or Engelbrecht in a team than a player like De Jongh.
There is another factor as well - tackle ability is also influenced by speed and that is where a player like Francois Steyn fails miserably. He is speed-deficient and consequently mistimes a lot of his tackle attempts - o ften enough ending up in failure.     
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 May 2014, 02:00
#16
07 May 2014, 02:00#16
Well let's see what happens on Saturday.....I'm betting de Jongh outplays JJ again. Unless of course JJisleft on the bench.  
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 May 2014, 02:19
#17
07 May 2014, 02:19#17
Mozart
I would not put my money on that one.  For everything De Jongh does well - he buggers up another thing.   The Stormers is in serious trouble injury wise and they are bound to struggle on Saturday.   
Under such circumstances it is only De Allende that I would bet on as having a reasonably good performance - the rest is going to struggle badly.  
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 May 2014, 03:49
#18
07 May 2014, 03:49#18
Well given JJ knocked Smith out in the S15 last year and ran straight through him in the last RC game last year......I'd say JJ has it over Smith.

As for de Jongh outplaying JJ......that has never happened and will never happen.....for one is a class act and the other a pretender who is far too small for the role of centre and who has been sorely exposed defensively this year
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 May 2014, 04:06
#19
07 May 2014, 04:06#19
Smith knocked himself out,  he tackled hammering  his head into JJs hip bone.  De Jongh beat JJ all ends up, much like Benjamin last week. And much like Benjamin a third player (Ndungane) slowed him up so JJ could get back and save his blushes. I wonder if that was counted as a missed tackle or just another JJ installment tackle....hehehe.
3K
3ku1
Pro2,580 posts
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
07 May 2014, 04:36
#20
07 May 2014, 04:36#20
 These stats are not meant to determine a players overall tackling abilities. But the qualitative analysis of the ratio between tackles made and tackles missed, based on the amount of games they are played. Therefore their tackling success rate, does not take into account Crucial moments like leading to a try etc. Its not meant to, the stat takes into account the amount of tackles the player has made and missed, and its ratio. A players strike rate when it comes to the success rate of their tackles.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 May 2014, 07:24
#21
07 May 2014, 07:24#21
 Mozart
The worst missing tackle candidates (ie who made no attempt to tackle at all)  this year Steyn and despite his fewer games De Jongh.  One has only to look at Harris beating Steyn with speed on the outside to really appreciate how deficient that one is in this respect.
Where there is no attempted tackle it is not recorded as a missed tackle - where an Alberts' Treeby tackle happens - it is recorded as a missed tackle.    
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 May 2014, 14:14
#22
07 May 2014, 14:14#22
 If one has an eye for things the facts are very simple. JJ is a powder puff tackler. I cant recall him putting in a really hard tackle. He about never goesin low and hard. And he often gets dragged. His defence is not good.I think it has become clear the guy is a wing and potentially a very good one. We are losing the plot here and ou maaaikie and snapster are leading folk astray.These s tats do not provide qualitative factors. Beeno and it seems Dr Moz do!

  
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 May 2014, 16:12
#23
07 May 2014, 16:12#23

Oh yeah of course Smith knocked himself out - it had stuff all to do with JJ smashing into him!!

 

 

As for de Jongh beating JJ - that was a joke......de Jongh stepped JJ only for JJ to haul him in with ease seconds later.

 

 

If you want to see a classic miss look no further than Skosan running straight through de Jongh

 

 

Beenkop I think you should stick to slagging Matfield off for that is all you are good at you dimwit  

— END OF THREAD —

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