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FORUM / RUGBY /  True Hallucinations and the Exaggeration of the Placebo Affect

True Hallucinations and the Exaggeration of the Placebo Affect

Started by Plum8 REPLIES298 VIEWS· 06 Jun 2016, 10:59
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PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
06 Jun 2016, 10:59
#1
06 Jun 2016, 10:59#1
Here you go CC. In my early twenties I read about a drug called DMT. An article in Vibe Magazine discussed how it was the most hallucinogenic compound known, how it had been tested on subjects by a certain government group and how people were tested individually. People who had never taken drugs nor knew what this drug was. The hallucinations described by the subjects were completely abstract, yet bore stark similarities which the article seemed to give two possible reasons for. A) Similarities in the human sub-conscious or B) The drug allowing users a view of the world not normally available. Naturally my first thought was, I gotta get me some of this stuff haha. Looked into it and this compound at the time was extremely rare and in SA it was impossible to come by. Fast forward 13 years and browsing the Internet I stumbled accross another article which reminded me of this drug. Looked into it and found I could order the plant material from Brazil, and everything else I needed to extract the active compound and prepare it could be bought from a super market. Three weeks later I had 2 grams of the most hallucinogenic drug in the planet sitting on my kitchen counter. Some background. In South America the drink called ayahuasca has been integral to shamanic healing and spiritual practices for thousands of years. The plant itself is considered sacred since it's consumption allows for communication with ancestors as well as healing people with alements ranging from headaches to infections to much more serious conditions. The problem. The chemical itself has ZERO medicinal properties. It is a neurotransmitter very similar to serotonin. It to not an antibiotic, an anti-inflammatory or anything remotely similar. Very few studies have been carried out on this compound and only a handful of books have been written about it, most of them biased in one direction or another. Back to my kitchen in Denmark. I measure out the required amount load it up into a pipe. Note I extracted the pure form and thus did not need to drink. Tribes people used to drink it and would first take an enzyme inhibitor so that it would not be broken down and discarded by the body, purge/puke and then drink a second drink containing the ayahuasca. Mine was a pure form in powder and could thus be smoked which delivers a much more potent yet shortened experience. I sat down on my sofa, lit the pipe, took three massive hits which I held in as much h as I could. I sat back and closed my eyes. Out of the blackness, off in the distance lights started to appear. It felts as though I was approaching them rather than they me. Withing 10 seconds I was inside of a place that I can only describe as a big glass dome, made entirely of very bright colored glass that was moving over itself endlessly. Cube like shapes shifted up from the floor all around me, moved close enough to me that I could see patterns on the cubes. The cubes danced around me, changed shape, turning into discs, spheres and other non-symetrical shapes. I could hear ticking noises and and almost whisper like sounds. There is a large part of this experience which was so abstract that I don't actually have frame of reference so as to be able to put in into words. How clear was this hallucination? Look around you at the room you are in. It was that clear. Perfect. Not blurry or imaginative. It was exactly as clear as a dream. In fact it happens in the exact same theatre as dreams do. Up there in your head. When you are dreaming the dream world around you is indistinguishable from your waking world in terms of clarity. Yet afterwerds it seems a little fuzzy around the edges. The DMT experience is identical to this...though the content is entirely otherworldly. So much so, thata s I said above one struggles to find words ro describe exactly what you saw. Fractals, lights, shifting patterns, geometry etc are the closest one can get. The afterglow. The experience is extremely short lived. About 2-10 minutes. It's followed by a 10-20 minute period post hallucination where one has what is described as ego death. It is as though one is able to have a conversation with one self that is completely devoid of any of the normal filters present. From somewhere inside your mind you are given direct answers to questions or rather insight into one's own life that it appears is normally within reach yet never attainable. My personal feeling is that as far as Western medicine goes, this is probably the most suitable medical use for this material. It has in fact been successfully used to fight alcoholism, heavy drug abuse and depression with alarmingly high success rates. Illegal. Yes, this compound though it has no negative affects on physical or mental health is completely illegal. It's in the same class as heroin, cocaine etc. Addiction to DMT is not possible, never has there been a case of suicide or mental breakdown associated with DMT and it has in fact been shown that the vast majority of users actually cut down on the use of other drugs they are taking or stop completely once they have used DMT. Even when their intention with DMT was merely casual. There is, as it stands, no plausible reason why this compound should be scheduled. Not a single study ever done supports the current legal position on DMT. Back to me. After my very first experience I decided that I needed to share this with other people. I proceeded to order a hefty load of root bark, from Mexico this time and produced a rather sizeable amount of it. Over a period of about 4 years I offered it free of charge to people who were interested and asked only for a trip report in return. To date I have collected 348 trip reports. Many of those reports are tainted with preconceptions and expectations by people who had heard of it before to varying degrees. Regardless, most of the reports contain an element of truth or rather actual experience of the user. Common themes in these reports. Yes some of the trip reports are from hippies, others from religious people and yet others from atheists. Quite a broad spectrum in terms of age too. The youngest person being 16 and the oldest being 74. Mostly people describe feelings of detachment from their bodies, bright intricate geometry, connection or communication, awe, belonging and awareness. Only the most articulate are able to describe the actual hallucination and so words that describe the emotions felt during the trip are more common. Nit one bad trip has yet occured an not one person has ever reported anything negative regarding their experience. The only request I have ever had for second trips are when a person has asked if I would mind if they brought a friend or family member so that they could experience it too. Out of 348 people, only two have ever asked to purchase it from me. I declined. So how does it heal people? Well in primitive tribes I believe that it exaggerated the placebo affect. We all believe that the mind is a powerful healing tool. But we find it hard to understand how and why. I don't know how nor do I know why, but i do think that if the most respected man(shaman) in your village gives you a drink which you already believe will heal you, tells you that you are going to communicate with the spirit world, and then you have the kind of experience that this stuff delivers while knowing nothing about chemistry or modern science, then it creates scope for the placebo affect to be greatly exaggerated. The fact is that it does work when it really shouldn't. If you are interested then do read up on the various instances where it has been documented as curing rather complicated medical conditions. Strangely, my hypothesis seems to be the least outlandish of them all. There you go CC. We can discuss hallucinations as much as you like ;)
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Jun 2016, 12:08
#2
06 Jun 2016, 12:08#2

Plum there is something I believe in and that is a question of mind over matter.   My late mother was identified with cancer in her female parts and three months later went back to Groote Schuur hospital in Cape Town to be operated on.  Tests before the operation indicated no cancerous conditions and the specialists could not understand what happened.  She had a very strong personality and I believe it was a case of mind over matter.   Incidently she took no medicine during the three month period - and was obviously not into drug usage either.   However, you are probably right about the placebo effect - but I am possibly too old for that kind of thing.      
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
06 Jun 2016, 12:34
#3
06 Jun 2016, 12:34#3
 That was interesting, Plum.
Clearly I know squat about hallucinations. Sounds fascinating. 
I have a question. 
Would you ever consider the possibility that powerful hallucinogenic drugs are in fact gateways or doors ... so to speak ... to other dimensions ... be they in the physical or spiritual realm?  
That taking these drugs enables you passage to a world not normally available, as you so nicely put. 
That what you see on the "other" side is in fact a reality of sorts ... something hidden to the majority of us ... only revealing itself to those curious and daring enough to venture that way?
I have often wondered whether those locked up in some loony toon shit hole were really insane ... or whether they were actually one of the few permitted through a gateway into the great beyond ... into a world they couldn't grasp, couldn't manage ... ending up voicing their experiences like ... well ... you?!

Not that I'm suggesting you be placed in a straitjacket and locked up in a padded cell ... although a little break from this insane world would probably be good for you.
F0k ... I'm starting to sound like you.






DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
06 Jun 2016, 13:02
#4
06 Jun 2016, 13:02#4
Well known TV personality Derren Brown did a documentary on the Placebo effect, last year or the year before.
He kitted out a professional looking makeshift hospital, "Qualified" doctors, nurses..... the works, and ran the treatment on multiple patients for a few months.
People who were afraid of heights, people who were afraid to be around any other people, even a musician who froze whenever she got onto a stage to play....
The one guy in particular walked an extra 3 - 5 miles to get to work, purely because he had to avoid walking over a wide low lying bridge, such was his phobia.
What a complete transition they made over the few months, and the look on their faces when informed it was just a sugar pill they had been taking.
I do believe in the placebo effect.... in fact I have not doubt at all, that it is all in the mind
The guy who wouldn't cross the bridge, not only crossed it, but he jumped up onto the side railing of the bridge and stood on it

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
06 Jun 2016, 18:49
#5
06 Jun 2016, 18:49#5
 There is a reason why some things are illegal,  but fools will always push the boundaries. ..good thing too, cause Earth produced some clever fools in the past....Tesla, Newton, Einstein...
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
06 Jun 2016, 23:50
#6
06 Jun 2016, 23:50#6
 Ahh the 'doors of perception " CC ? Drugs like Acid were developed by Swiss companies as an aid to psychcoan.alysis therapy before WW2 .In parts of Australia like WA it was still legal well into the 70s .Indigenous Aussies like many indigenous people use various plants to open up the doors to the 'spirit world " or what have you ,stuff like datura and peyote . In Sth Oz they used something called " pitcheree " dunno how its spelled but only the Kadaitcha men  or "feather foot " men know whats in it .No good for me though ,I like to stay in control thanks very much .All this could explain NH rugby and its non performance vs SH rugby ,to legitimize this thread you see !
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
07 Jun 2016, 09:40
#7
07 Jun 2016, 09:40#7
@CC I began posting a reply last night but it ended up being very long. I shall need a bit more time but will certainly give you my best and most honest answer. Wardad. I cannot think of a worse treatment for anything than LSD. It's a horrible chemical which confuses, disorientates and often results in extremely negative experiences for users. LSD is about as far away from what I spoke about above as one could get. The onoy.similarity is that they are on the banned substances list.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Jun 2016, 13:03
#8
07 Jun 2016, 13:03#8
 I cant see any need for any hallucigenic drug here Plum. One only has to read the kbbs posts and guys like dense denise. JW is of course completely spaced.All very trying for the few sane ones here.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 Jun 2016, 14:04
#9
07 Jun 2016, 14:04#9
The mind or human will can accomplish incredible things, when you add in the spiritual aspect even miracles are possible. I haven't felt the need for hallucinogens.
I have been told that modern pharmaceuticals can help those who experience delusions, or deny reality. Of course there are well documented cases where these fail, sadly we need look no further than wee Beeno.
— END OF THREAD —

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