Question 1
This morning James O'Connor was run over completely and left lieing on the grass first by Piutau and afterwards by Ranger. Does that mean he is not an international backline player in terms of your statements of the past?
Question 2
Is it essential for Kolisi to knock on balls whilst the Stormers are attacking? The econd time it happened in two gams - hence the question.
Saffex
Vey thin answer - this one. I do not accept that one incident in a game determoines the career of any player and is decisive as to whether a player can perform or not - but on your side the answer is always the same - when it fits your argument one incident is enough.
I agree Mike one incident doesnt define a player. Jordaan may however be better playing on the wing. However with JP off to Japan he is likely to stay at center.
Its is a disgrace two Boks in their prime are off to Japan.
Kolisi is not too bad but to talk of him as a Bok right now is ludicrous.
I am glad you mentioned the "nat bal" issue snapster it could help enlighten a struggling bulle fan.
South Africa has a number of 'loosies', whom would you choose and how could you see them working togeher ? Do not include in- eligable players.
Saffex
You deliberately brought in the Jordaan issue here and missed my point completely. The point I was trying to make is that one incident in games for any player is not career-defiining. I mentioned that because there is a tendency to regard one incident as such.
You quoted Jordaan - I can quote numerous others. Take for instance Mozart's argument about the try scored by De Jongh in the CC Final and that that maks for his automatic selection as the Springbok 13 as one example. What I am trying to say is that it really becomes a problem if one incident can become career-defining and that is something people seems to think when dealing with players. I believe it is wrong to do so.
Let me give an example of may years ago. Up until the early 1970's there were never intervarsity games be tween the Universities of Stellenbosch (Maties) and Pretoria (Tukkies). The UP team consisted at the time of many players playing for Northern Transvaal and ruled the roost in that franchise. Then suddenly a game was arranged and the whole of Pretoria was saying that the Maties would be badly beaten by the Tukkies. Dr Craven came up with a total unknown playing at 13 - a player who never played for Maties otr WP before, by the name of Slang Kritzinger. In the game itself he was a revelation - he broke the Tukkies backline with their NT centers and Springbok centers into pieces and scored two tries. All was saying - here is the great center of WP and even the Springboks. What actually happened was that he never played for Maties again and obviously never played for WP. He was from the so-called Hostel League at Maties and that was the first and last time anybody ever heard of Slang Kritzinger. Craven was far too clever to be caught by the one-incident crap so often used in debate.
A mild answer. When you are run over twice, it tends to be career defining. Januarie only ran over Russell once to send his career into oblivion. Jordaan is very unlikely to succeed as a test centre.
The issue is not a specific player - it is using of one incident as a norm for career-defining. You missed the point completely and added another falsehood as well about Jordaan. He missed oe tackle on Fruean - not two as mentioned by you. The other one you spoke about the tackle was made and there was no dragging of 55 meters as allehged by you in any event. Fruean could off-load the ball and there was no cover-defence by the full back as well.
interesting question clever -
My opinion is that JOC albeit freakishly talented is a 'utility' type player prbably most suited to coming off the bench and running around thru tiring defenders. My current wallabies backline doesnt include him in starting line up. Its a shame that he has been switched / played at just about every position in the backlline makes for good substitute but not good starter. Id have to say 15 is his best position but Wallabies have another 3+ ahead of him in this position. FRom Wallabies POV - depth is a wonderful (rare) thing.,
Mike, in most cases one incident is not career defining, however every now and then they are. In the case of Jordaan it was. It told us everything we need to know about him. In a nutshell it told us he is too small for centre.
Are you not able to grasp this simple concept?
No ways Red, O'Connor has to be one of the first names on the teamsheet. He is pure class and a must. Where to play him is the issue. I would play him at 12, outside Cooper.
saffex maybe 12 is it ...? I dont know. My only reservation he possibly lacks punch to get over advantage line @ 12 (as 2nd 5/8 no probs at all) and defence is questionable.. esp if Lions centres tuiligi and north ? (or other big wleshman centre always get these two confudsed...)
I'd prefer to see AAC @ 13 and possibly Tapuai / Faiangaa from Reds or Lilianfano from bumbies @ 12... but with mumbling bumbling kiwi coach with zero tactical skills drongo deans probly go with JOC and have dual weak defense through 10/12 and then blame QC for not tackling... That is IF QC makes 10 his spot which he would under Ewen any day - but Drongo too poorer man manager.
No, he will be creative at 12, no crashball stuff. At 91kg's these days, he is just on the edge size wise, but his talent counters any reservations over size. He punches above his weight anyway. Lilianfano is smaller than him and I dont rate Faiangaa at all. Ben Tapuai is useful at 12.
The Lions centres will be Roberts at 12 and Tuilagi at 13. O'Connor would leave Roberts for dead.
I would probably have the following Oz backline: 9. Genia 10. Cooper 11. Folau 12. O'Connor 13. Ashley Cooper 14. Digby 15. Beale
Saffex
You probably missed out on the latest news as to Beale. He has to many problems with kickapoo joy juice and may be in trouble with the ARU. Unlikely he would make the team - since he apparently does ot consider a recovery project as seriously as he shoud and missed a meeting with his Shrink as well. That will prbably exclude him from being considered - you cannot have an habitual drunk who pickk fights with his teammates in a team and expect miracles.
I would prefer Ioani at 11 ahead of Folau - but he is reportedly leaving for Europe sometime later this year - but wil be available for the Lions series The Aussies do not select foreign-based players like our ignorant fool does in respect of Springbok selection.
I believe that Folau is the ultimate 15 and see no reason for moving him around. I agree with Redsman about Lealifano and think he is going to have the inside track at 12. I do not think that Deans will go for Cooper either - he probably would pick O'Connor ahead of Cooper for the no 10 jersey. To my mind that would be a mistake - but we never seem to agree with coaches as to team selection - now do we?
I am aware of the latest on Beale. If I was the Oz coach, I'd not worry too much about all the politics and I'd have him in my starting side at 15. Same applies to Cooper at 10.
The Oz backline I have selected is the one I would go with. Ioani, is Digby!!
JOC fractured sternum last nite now in doubt for lions... so prbly all academic now.
but QC / JOC in 10,12 be easy target for big lions backline and back rowers...
centres for aussie really IS the big question - QC / genia have to be 9/10 - AAC, digby and folau all probables... if Kurtley can get off the juice he'll be there too but maybe on bench his defense bit suspect @ 15...
further - I like tapuai think hes got masses of potential @ 12 - but Ewen had him bencehd last nite not sure if hes got lingering injury or wanted to mix it up tactically.
Faingaa is underrrated - great teamman, rock solid in defence and like another loose forward specialist 'fetcher' around the park - he tackles and turns over more ball than ANY centre Ive ever seen.
Yes his attack is avergae at best but therse other traits make him very useful player.
