Two things are clear

When I warned people to be careful what they wished for when calling for Meyer's head, I was the idiot who knew nothing about rugby. Some laughed. I don't see much laughter, aside from our adversaries. You can't teach stupid. It's impossible. 

WTF did he not start Marx ????

Why wait 35 minutes to drum wee Bongo out ?

So we have a liar to talk about other players and members.   I personally spent over R250 000 to go to France to watch the 2007 WC and other than mentioning Francois Steyn missing four tackles in the final never ever criticized any player in that squad.

I criticized the "most experienced team ever" losing against the Japanese and stated clear reasons why it happened,  It was not one missed tackle - claimed by idiots - that lost the game.  It was the horrible performances by the experienced team members that caused the situation where a single try could lose that test,   The sickness of the situation was clearly displayed - but that was in evidence since November 2014 and in the fact that the Springboks did not win a single Rugby Championship match in 2015,

What the stupid idiots  never admit is that  what happened over the last two years was in fact largely due to the fact that the Meyer years resulted in a vacuum in the test level pool that has still had not be en corrected.

They blame the wrong players and keep on punting BS.  Lets explain the problem in plain words.   The idiot attacked Malherbe and claimed the scrumming of Louw and Beast was better than the starting props.   In fact it is an outright lie,    The scrumming against the bench props of the Aussies were poorer and fact is that it was a shambles,   Two penalties given away and at best the scrums were static with Beast and Louw as props.   

Another simple issue the two idiots never mentioned is that between Kitshoff and Malherbe they made 24 tackles missing none - higher than either Beast or Louw achieved in any test they started in.

Their prejudiced BS and lies have no limits.                    

Haaaaahahahahaaa ... and the board's two clowns gather in unison to once again sing Meyer's praises.

They claim that it's the brilliance of Meyer that kept us afloat. Their 4 registered excuses have been set aside ... for now.

The truth in fact is that Meyer was the cause of what we see today. His love for capping the useless ... his love for the Bulls, coaching staff included ... his passion for the elderly ... and in Victors case, the ancient, brought this all along.

Meyer the Coward made a right mess of things.

They are so blinded by there own prejudice. Seeing clearly is beyond them both.

Before you guys believe the nonsense that they've posted, bear in mind that Coetzee was a fan of the quota. That he did his best to conform to the racist regulations put in place. That he agreed with these policies and found out shortly there after that one needs quality players to form a winning team

He too had Comrade Stick as an assistant coach. Two quotas, coaching a team of quotas.

Rassie also mouthed off to the world that he would build a winning team with the dregs of South African rugby. The quota. Transformation. Affirmative Action. BEEE!! Black Empowerment. He too supports these racist policies and has betrayed his people.

These are the things that Meyer never needed to face. He was basically the last of our coaches with free reign ... and look what a mess he made of that. He had so much talent at his disposal and yet that wasn't enough. Simply put ... one of the worst coaches we've had.   

Poepoltjies and Moffie ... what a well suited pair.

CC - agree totally with you.   Meyer also dabbled in quotas - but which quotas were his favourites,   Lets start with Paine, Mohoje, Jantjies, Kirchner, Steenkamp, Kolisi, Nyakane,  Beast, Pietersen and Hab ana.  Lets look at the above:-

*  Paige cannot even make the Cheetahs "A" side,  He was picked because he was the routine bench scrummie of the Bulls.

*   Mohoje was bad news.   He was the bench no 7 of the Cheetahs and played at 7 only when Labuschagne was not available.

*   Jantjies played his first two tests under Meyer in 2012.  He failed in both and has failed in every test he played in since.

*   Kirchner was the Bulls full back,  He dropped out of contention in 2013, but was back in the WC squad - whee he did not play at all.   Nice all-expenses paid holiday for him

*   Steenkamp was over-the-hill and excessively fat when Meyer picked him in 2012,   He was by then the routine bench player of Toulouse.

*   Kolisi was always a questionable loosie and still is.  At best a real quota pick without regard to performance

*   Nyakane was a cut above the others dealt with thus far - but also at best questionable

*   Beast was the only really satisfactory selection and was competitive in most cases.

*   Pietersen and Habana in their prime was top class players.   By the time 2015 came along deterioration was already in evidence and by 2017 both were really out of contention. 

There is one note about the above,   Meyer loved club bench players - Morne Steyn was a typical example - three of the above players could not make their franchises/clubs starting line-ups.   As bad as Meyer was in team selection, so bad was he in identifying quota players    

Yes, but not to the same extent that Coetzee and Rassie have embraced the quota. They are all out for it. Totally committed to the cause.

Either way, nicely put.

As you know, Habana and JP at that time would not be construed as quotas. They were merit selections, and so do not count.

Morne's best rugby was in 2009. He was brimming with confidence that year, but that quickly gave way to what we've seen since. A dead average joe!

He should never have been brought back into the mix from 2010 onward. Once again the 

Mikey wasnt the "Hagana"  the precursor to the Israeli Defence Force ?

Mohoje outplayed McCaw in 2014. He wasn't too shabby compared to Hooper the week before that All Black test. Not much of a gainline ball carrier, but very secure in contact. 

Steenkamp was a great Bok. We almost never lost when he played. Yet Clever Mike claimed he "cost the Boks" severely. I suppose winning 13 of 15 tests is too lowly for Herr Freifrau. 

Habana and Pietersen were two of the best players under Meyer. Both were excellent in the World Cup. Commentators and other figures in the game remarked that Pietersen looked rejuvenated. 

Beast is one of the best ever Boks. One of the most consistently good Boks. A reliable carrier, scrummager and defender. 

Kirchner was part of the best Bok attack of the past ten years. Outplayed Folau in 2013' RC. Was also one of the better Boks against Japan. Much maligned, but actually one of the better producers. Unfortunately he could not replicate the manner in which Willie functioned as a second 10, concealing the limitation of our centres. His iffy boot was his greatest weakness; good in one test, awful in another . 

Morné was the best performing Bok 10 under Meyer. Was a key figure in that incredible period of attacking rugby by the Boks. Has yet to be truly surpassed. 

Kolisi is the one player in your list that is questionable. However, he was probably among the better Boks yesterday. 

Conclusion: With the players Herr Drache and Lügnerin lambast, Meyer was a steady #2 in the world. This for an 83% win percentage, and only 2 home defeats where only New Zealand could beat the Boks and two unbeaten tours up north. 

Where did it go wrong? The likes of Damian began to creep in. So too Coetzee. So too Reinach. So too Lambie. So too Kriel. Soo too Lood. So too Steph. We start seeing names creep in that are commonly attached to failure. Damian has cost the Boks tests and many tries and contributed to our defeat to the All Blacks. Kriel cost us a game winning try against Japan. Lood blew two try scoring opportunities in the red zone against Wales and was a totem pole against New Zealand. Lambie's first contribution was to run it like Pollard and get turned over. The same player who was outplayed by Japan and Italy with his partner in crime, Reinach. 

The howling ones never admitted they were wrong. They claim a coach who lost the services of Du Preez, Danie, Juan, Schalk, Victor, Bakkies, Smit, Spies, Brussow, Fourie post World Cup, with only three brief training sessions with the players, who won an England series immediately, is useless. No, he kept the team well head of where it really should have been. He finished 3 at a world cup, losing by a coupe of points to New Zealand. He is a an excellent coach.

When pressed for answers about who Meyer hindered, they go quiet. Who are these unproven winners that will definitely reign supreme? Can they be found in our super rugby teams, who are routinely substandard? Jantjies was supposedly the answer. Lood was supposedly the answer. So too Steph, so too many players. Where are they? What has Coetzee done that was better than Meyer? What about Rassie? No. Squeal and Pip are bound by their blind and raging hatred for Meyer and are now sounding like the racists who blamed Jake for Peter's failures. 

WTF did he not start Marx ????

Listen =- we have the biggest deceivers ever here - lets see what AO wrote:-

*   Mohoje never outplayed McCaw or Pocock - wonderful dream, but the lie never happened.

*    Steenkamp by 2012 was already over-the-hill and the fact that y ou could not see that shows that you are indeed a loonie

*    Kirchner outplaying Folau - are you nuts or something?  OK I now remember you do not rate Folau. 

This is total BS and misrepresentation  of what I said anyway.   Both Pietersen and Habana did not do well in the WC in 2015 at all,.  They missed too many tackles and due to Meyer's game plan virtually never saw the ball.

By the way - Morne was in 2012 piss-poor and by 2014 worse - so take it from me he was the worst flyhalf after Jantjies we had the past 6 years.

Dear Mozart - shall I remind you of the Argentina tests where Jannie du Plessis and Steenkamp was in full retreat at jet speed in scrums.   Keep on dreaming.

What happened in 2013? Kirchner scores a try and makes a try. No penalties and secure on defence. Folau? Penalised and caught repeatedly trying to run from deep. Failed to connect on attack and was stated by every media outlet to have had a poor test. 

1-0 Kirchner.

The return fixture. Kirchner yet again scores a try and sends Willie away for a try. Solid on defence. Contributed to the Bok attack and territorial dominance. Folau was against trapped deep and unable to relieve pressure. Failed to spark the attack. Tactical weak point again in an emphatic defeat.

2-0 Kirchner.

This is hilarious. Given how much you've run your mouth off, you have to face many of your own words. Are you the chief rugby expert in the world? Are you so great that only you can see  what you say you saw? Is everyone else in the world too stupid to match your genius? Afterall, you have made it clear that you are no ordinary Mike, but a Clever Mike. Oh the tragedy of it all. 

Habana and Pietersen fixed our aerial problem on the wings, we're secure on defence. Unfortunately our centres were not able to create. It's their job to be the men who release the outside backs. What did Kriel do with he ball? 

This has been a bad night for you. Don't forget that prescription of clozapine. Everything is gonna be awrite Master Lügnerin. 

CC

Our local village idiots find an incident in one test and then makes out it happened all the time.

By the way - Le Roux played for the Cheetahs and was drafted into the Spirngbok team when Kirchner was injured.   Le Roux remained in the team and Kirchner  never returned as full back..  I cannot remember a single test in which those two played together in the same team.   AO must give us the test it happened and where he got that quote from.   

Anyway Kirchner was as poor at full back as Morne was at flyhalf.  AO refused to recognize the fact that Morne's mate dropped him from the side in 2012 and did the same thing twice in 2014.  That really showed his class.

I had no problems with Habana and Pietersen until 2015 - they dropped from the scene since then.  However, their defense in the 2015 WC was already questionable.     

Mohoje won good turnovers at Ellis Park. He carried strongly and defended well. Of course, I'm sure you know better. Provide the details. You and Lügnerin merely pick names out from a team sheet. Names you don't like. Had you followed the game you'd have noted that our breakdown success was a key aspect of those wins over New Zealand and Australia. Mohoje played his part and defended excellently . However, you are now caught in a pickle because you made an assumption. No surprise that you picked the darkie out! 

Here you go making another assumption. I said Morné was better than Carter, far better? Provide the quote.

State how Folau outplayed Kirchner in 2013. Kindly provide one item. Thank you.

If you weren't so emotional and easily upset you'd probably be able to form a better argument. As it is, you and Lügnerin are making quite a mess for yourselves. 

Aaah .. the usual 180. Moffie has taught you well!!

I don't recall which alias you were using at the time ... there's been so many ... and I definitely do not feel like wafting through countless posts of horseshit to prove you a liar. We already know that to be a fact.

Morne is a second rate loser in comparison to most test quality 10's ... and absolutely not in the same universe when it came to Carter. He's an average club player at best. A pussie!!

Mohoje isn't in McCaw's league either. Never has been, never will be ... and that's why Mohoje never even received an invite to attend the IRB player of the year ceremony ... and guess what ... ? ... he never will. You know why? Because he's a useless quota!! 

He might make it there as a waiter or the guy that washes McCaw's dirty dinner plate ... but that's about as close as he's going to get to that prestigious award.

Haaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaa!!

I see you forgot to mention exactly just how many test matches Steenkamp played under Meyer.

If you'd be do kind.

Thanks a lot!!

How convenient. There have been so many posts so you aren't going to find it. It won't stop you stating it though! This is embarrassing Herr Drache. If you're going to say these words, at least hold this up, just for a little more honesty.

As per Steenkamp's tests? I already broke down his tests played under Meyer as well as win percentage. Your other half Lügnerin responded to it. Seeing as it bares repeating, because you didn't it read, here it is again. 

Steenkamp played 15 tests. He won 13. That's an 83% win percentage.

So now we have you deny Mohoje's great performances because he is a black man. If he played well, that means you can't use the quota argument. This argument isn't about the legacy of the two players, but the performance on the day. 

I could find only one test in which Mohoje played at Ellis Park in 2014 and he was piss poor in that test and was subbed early in minute 49.

Here are stats for that test 

He was poor in the Aussie test that year as well.  his stats were slightly better and he was subbed at minute 54 when the score was 8-10 in favour of Australia.  

I do not know where you get the turnovers myth from.   Another lie manufactured/sucked out of your thumb  by you and Mozart??????????

There's more to stats Lügnerin. Just as I showed you in Damian's best test, according to statistics. Another lie? There has never been a first. 

You still didn't answer my questions viz Damian. Did you watch the test? 

Yes

I answered you elsewhere,   D imness.  

Umm ... what you should have said is that Steenkamp was part of the team that won 13 of the 15 test matches ... and not imply that he was the sole cause of those victories. It's misleading ... it gives the reader the impression that he had an incredible 13 test matches and that the Bok would not have won had it not been for him.

In all honesty I remember him walking around most of the matches during Meyers, probably trying to catch his breath. He didn't need to do much in the scrum as his weight was more than sufficient to keep his opponent from advancing ... and if I recall correctly he contributed absolutely nothing in the tight loose.

He was a great player in his day ... one of my favourites ... but he wasn't worth much when the loser Meyer called on him.

In other words, he didn't exactly thrive under Meyer in test matches, did he now? That's just another one of your many lies!!

Sorry to burst your bubble, Poepies!!

A lie? Let me guess, this is another one of your "I can't really prove it, but I'll say it's a fact anyway". 

I see why Herr Drache gets so angry. He tries to verbally bash everyone into submission. He is so emotionally driven he can't help but get so wound up his eyes bulge out of his head. The way he gets angry when someone exhibits any intelligible thought. He is really insecure with himself. It's okay, I forgive you mein Herr. Now it's time to forgive yourself. Come on now, set yourself free. 

Problem is both Mozart and you are dishonest in player performance assessment and you often et caught out being dishonest.    

Problem is both Mozart and you are dishonest in player performance assessment and you often et caught out being dishonest.    

I have never been caught out in a single detail. You've been caught out so many times, to such an extent that you have been told to shut up by everyone. They are sick of hearing your same repetitive nonsense. I've seen that your new playmate has attacked you as well. A case of my enemies enemy is my ally I suppose. 

This from an idiot who is no delusional that he believes any crap he writes on site is factual and always correct,  Unbelievable arrogance and total BS spreader, 

It's the truth. I have never been caught out on one detail. You've been caught on numerous issues and when your gaff is exposed you pop a vein. Arrogance is denying it when the whole board calls you out. 

As I said a while back. You need to up your game. It's becoming stale and overly repetitive. You and your buddy bring nothing but childish ranting and personal attacks. Not even a hint of humour. Just sour petulance. No sign of any rugby from either of you too. 

LMAO

LMAO? Are you now admitting you've lost face? 

Meyer would have faced the same problems - there may have been a couple of more positive results due to continuity but I really think that we're facing something much bigger than tactics and it's not a coach issue, it's a system issue, it's an organisation issue. Ultimately it's SARU's issue.

We need to ask  ourselves how in the few years from School Rugby to Seniors it all falls apart, because at a school level SA is still much better than others.

We need to address the issue of Transformation, it's not constructive to anyone, it's a divisive system which ranks people based on colour, and for **** sake, we need to stop that. We need to trust that players regardless of color will show their quality and be picked accordingly. There's no need for quotas because there's POC who are very good (Gelant, Nkosi, Dyanti, Am - I realise some disagree on him, Beast) As well as a future crop who also look promising (Augustus, Dayimani, Fassi, Simelane, Papier, Moerat)

The whole contract issue needs to be solved, there needs to be a talk about Super Rugby and the Currie Cup.

There's a lack of coaching talent in the Domestic Franchises.

It's so much more than just not having Meyer

The origin of the Mohoje and Kirchner saga. Ed, you really need to give us better access to these older posts! This was the first time I ever compared Kirchner to Folau, the post i necro-bumped yesterday was the very first instance of me discussing Folau at all. 

Regarding Morné and Carter? I never did compare these two players, so there is no record of me ranking either player over the other prior to the lie of Herr Dreck. At most, I have compared the volume of kicking at 10 between the All Blacks and Boks. 

You very often demand apologies Dreck, how about one from you. You have proclaimed that you always apologise for your mistakes. Do so now, and all will be forgiven, never to be brought up again, assuming you don't rekindle the issue again! I think that's quite generous. 

Foeitog

Thanks \for raising this thread - but bad news non-the-less for the site idiots.

"M's geriatrics Ranking #2.....Rassie's flavour of the day, expansively committed newbies Ranking #7. Case closed. "

M's geriatrics after Japan test  ranking 6 -  Rassies flavour of the day, expansively committed newbies Ranking #1. 

Case closed     LMAO  -  What a major worst rugby calls ever disaster fo r Mozart  

The classic Lügnerin diversion. No sorry? That's okay, your tail between your legs as you hit turbo reverse is good enough for me. Too bad you boxed yourself in. 

Not a diversion dimness -just reacting to rank idiocy trying to help you out.  I suggest stupid pills - maybe your intelligence level on rugby could reach that of a three- year old.     

Getting a little hot under the collar again! Sitting in the corner sucking his thumb again, scowling at the world around it.