Typical Coetzee

 Howard has a hammy injury apparently - the reason he left the game early on Saturday. AC probably would still go with DeJongh though if they were both healthy.

 

van Aswegen also in doubt, but the Cat is back - hope he keeps up the attacking rugby. Really like the look of WP so far in the Currie Cup - adventurous, running rugby played right on the advantage line. The more they play together this year the better it will become. Did think they tried too many grubbers and chip kicks especially in the first half when they should have been keeping it in hand. Kolbe looked great - what a step, and shows some mongrel. Pack was a lot better against the Cheetahs. Michael Rhodes had a good game, another big young athletic lock.

Sorry Moz any coach investing in de Jongh is wasting their time, he is not physically up to the job of playing 13. He has been a huge disappointment. Has had flashes of good but generally makes little impression. Pat Howard is a far better prospect in my opinion and time will prove that Oimatey, Rhodes is a loosie playing as a makeshift lock. He is too short for lock

Mozart With all due respect - the win of WP on Saurday by one point was not entirely convincing - even though they had home ground advantage. I think that De Jongh has serious limitations - he this year was very poor in defence and his attacking skills are very limited. Maybe Catrakiliis will create another opportunity for him to run through and score a try - but that is doubtful indeed - since the try was entirely due to a serious defencive lapse by the Sharks loosies. I am not sure of the chances of Wp to beat the Griquas in Kimberley - so lets wait and see. Howard in the game he played in was ten times better than De Jongh ever was - and thrived on the good play of De Allende. If De Villiers eventually gets back - they should keep De Allende at 12 and play De Villiers at 13 or move De Allende to 13 - De Jongh is just not good enough.

Quite right Saff.

 

Not sure if you guys saw his MOM interview - really funny.

 dejong is a quota player for the boks.

He is a decent player but is not good enough for the boks, and nor is he better than Pat Howard.

 

Is this another Stormers don't score much tries thread from people who have no clue why?

 

Its funny when you consider our biggest wins against Australia came from a SA line up who boasted the so called quota players or shit centers IE Percy as the shit center and Ady Jacbs, Nokwe and Ndugane in that 53 - 8 romp at Ellispark.

 

Please explain

 

Cheers 

De Jongh is essentially a fine provincial player, who is good enough not to let the Boks down. Nor has he. And he is better than a lot of the flavour of the day players like Taute and I'm afraid Engelbrecht who aren't centres. He proved that by comfortably outplaying Engelbrecht in the Bulls/ Stormers game. - So what should Meyer be doing? He could be playing Engelbrecht on the wing, which is his natural position. He defends like a wing....in depth....not at a line, like a centre should. That allows Jean to shift to 13 and gets the talented Serfontein on the park. - The only hesitation I have with this solution is Serfontein probably could benefit with coming off the bench in the away RC leg. And it's just possible JJ could fix his defensive issues this year. But if it was my decision to make I'd make the change.....guys who are uncomfortable with the tackle don't chane. - Unfortunately clear thinking is not a strong point of our rugby and a few runs through wide open space, he has hardly beaten a tackle in our 4 internationals, have conviced our fans that JJ is the business at centre. So far his inept defence has led to one try, but there will be more.

Mozart Good enough not to let the Springboks down?????? What happened in the test at Twickenham when he went AWOL? proof:- de Jongh 0/0 0 0/1/0 0 0 0 0 0 3/0 0/ So many zeroes - I stopped counting. And he has the worst defensive stats of ALL players in ALL teams in Super 15 - so he will not let the Springboks down? He already has and the proof are there for all to see.

C de Jongh 0/0 0 0/1/0 0 0 0 0 0 3/0 0/0 0 0/0 C de Villiers 0/0 0 0/2/3 12 0 2 0 0 7/0 0/0 0 0/0 - That's what happened against England OOM. De Villiers made 12metres and passed the ball twice. If you are still following the bouncing ball that means de Jongh had no ball. He got it once and passed. Makes it hard to rack up the big yards hey? - Why did that happen? Well because we had 40% of the territory and 42 % of the possession. And why did that happen? Because Flood kicked 4 times and passed 9 times....and Lambie kicked 8 times and passed 4 times. - Nothing to do with the centres....a lot to do with pressure and Lambie's proclivity to kick like there's no tomorrow when he is at 10.

 de Jongh better than JJ at centre.........Moz that is the joke of the week and I'll leave it there.

 

JJ is the best 13 prospect SA has had since Gerber.

 

Taute is a far better 13 than de Jongh and he proved that in the tests last year, much like Jean proved last year that he was a disaster at 13.

 

JJ did not miss a single tackle against the Argies and that is a fact. This notion about his poor defence is simply rubbish. His strength however is his attacking skills, no 13 currently playing the game has his speed and feet

Now I want to expose another OOOOM Maaik lie. He says de Jongh missed 28% of his tackles and is the worst defensively in any S15 team. Big claim. Here are the facts. - De Jongh had a very poor year defensively by his standards, making only 77% of his tackles....not 72% as the Oom claims. Why this happened is hard to say, de Jongh has great tackling technique but he also tries for a lot of forcing tackles deep behind the advantage line. Normally he makes most of these....this year that percentage dropped. - So was he the worst in any team. Well pulling up these numbers is a bit of effort....so I thought I'd go straight to a player, who plays for the OOm's favourite team. I tested Raymond Rhule. And found this chappie attempted 95 tackles and made 64 of them, for a success ratio of 67% ....a full 10 points worse than de Jongh. - So it was all a lie....a brazen, bare faced lie. Posters should note when reading clevermike's stuff....the facts may be pure fantasy or more damningly, deliberately dishonest.

Mozart Not a lie - I used the ESPN stats to calculate the 28%. Be it as it may - the 23% figure still makes him the worst defender in Super 15 - and that says a lot. A strong tackler - that being the reason for the low tackle success rate - another invention and excuse. He is neither a strong tackler - nor an effective one - and that is a fact. Raymond Rhule was never mentioned by me - neither does he play at 13 - you are trying to mislead people again - I referred to players playing at 13. If you want to mislead people on this site by doing that type of misleading info - you are really disgracing yourself - nobody else. Why don't you try and use the same stats and give us Ebgelbrecht's ratio as you so clearly gave in the case of De Jongh and while you are at it also Jordaan's. Both played at 13 - so that is appropriate. But you won't - because that would expose your prejudice even more. Since you mention Rhule - why not use the same method and tell us all about Aplon's success rate as well. Lets open up the sore completely - not by deliberate writing of selected rubbish. People should know that Mozart normally lies when it comes to players he fancies and do all kind of dishonest ways of doing just that. As for De Jongh himself - if his attacking game was any good whatsoever - it could have been used as an off-set to his tackling disaster. Mozart refers to the Twickenham test - whenever the ball came out on the Springbok side - Kirchner came into the backline and De Jongh was absent - and the overlap not being resulting the movements die. He normally was in a position where the ball would normally never goes and he thus killed any potential backline attack. In the Pretoria trest De Jongh - after he came off the bench bungles one of the best try scoring opportunities of the whole match. In the Murrayfield test he knocked on the ball when there was a real attacking opportunity. And then Mozart says he never let the Springboks down. The exact opposite he REPEATEDLY LET THE SPRINGBOKS DOWN. YOUR INFORMATION IS NORMALLY DISTORETED IN THE EXTREME and I wonder why you are so dishonest about things pertaining to rugby. I challenge you to provide the tackle stats of the following and compare notes on those:- 13 - Engelbrecht, Jordaan, Sadie, De Jongh Wings - Rhule, Aplon Then we all can see who are dishonest and trying to mislead the members..

I already gave you Englebrecht's stats Dishonest OOM. Remember you said he missed 14% of his tackles and I told you he missed 19%. Your mind is really going old toppie. And I see you say I'm trying to mislead. Nope that would be you.You said on this very string: - "And he has the worst defensive stats of ALL players in ALL teams in Super 15" - All I did was investigate one player from your favourite team, Raymond Rhule, to point out the lie. Rhule's missed tackles were 33% compared to de Jongh's 23%. Not even close, but according to you Juan is the worst tackler of any team in the S15. Your big, ill informed mouth , has trapped you again.

Mozart If there is anybody dishonest here it is you. WE were discussing players playing at 13 - not wing - not full back - not lock - PLAYERS PLAYING AT 13.. You knew you were caught out - so you wanted to create a diversion by bringing in somebody not playing at 13. You are really a liar at best. Nobody has ever mentione anybody other than Players at 13 - you caused the impression players were to be covered - which is absolute bullshit. I want to point out that this issue was repeatedly raised under other threats as well - when we discussed clearly the position of players playing at 13. Why the hell should this issue suddenly be broadened to include all players playing in all teams - when the issue discussed relates to all players playing at 13 in all teams. Think you were clever - but ended up as a bullshitter.

No you were not discussing 13s....I quote you again: - "And he has the worst defensive stats of ALL players in ALL teams in Super 15" - Where do you see 13s in there? Huh? Point it out to me you old coot.

Mozart I will give you a straight answer. We were discussing De Jongh playing at 13 - nobody else. Even an idiot would not compare the stats of a wing or any other player with those of a 13. You compare apples with apples. While discussing De Jongh I said he was the worst defender in Super 15 - only an deceiver would assume that we were discussing any other position than 13. in which he played all season long. Clearly the way you try to duck out of this one was dishonest and I never expected It from you.

The straight answer is you said "all players in all teams". And I loved the bit where you had de Jongh missing 28% of his tackles and JJ 14%. When the real numbers were de Jongh missed 23% and JJ 19%. Your differential was 14% whereas the actual difference was 4%. You exaggerated by 3.5 times! No accident I'm sure.....aren't you ashamed of yourself man. How can you just lie like that? Straighten up and fly right!

OK - I get the message. WILL HAVE TO BEAR IN MIND THAT WE ARE DEALING HERE WITH A CHILDISH CHARACTER THAAT NEEDS TO BE SPOONFED ALL THE TIME. Should have said players playing at 13 - sorry I allowed leeway for our own domestic escape artist. Now - was De Jongh the player playing at 13 the 13 center with the worst defensive stats of all 13's playing in all teams in Super 15. A plain YES or NO would suffice. No answer expected - since Mozart will try and find another escape method to avoid answering.

Not even close OOMpie..... Burleigh for the Highlanders looks the worst at 33% of tackles missed. Game, set and match!

Mozart Burleigh?????? How many games was he in the starting line-up????? Once or maybe twice. Creative reply though. Shows I must frame the question correctly - because the escape artist is very devious and would find something to escape from facing the truth. Well done Mozart - but you know you are hiding behind a see-through plastic curtain. Burleigh - what an escape. Mind you I do not expect to see Burleigh s a international player as you are punting De Jongh to be. Even a miss tackle ratio of 23% is a disgrace - so lets leave the debate there.

Mozart Burleigh?????? How many games was he in the starting line-up????? Once or maybe twice. Creative reply though. Shows I must frame the question correctly - because the escape artist is very devious and would find something to escape from facing the truth. Well done Mozart - but you know you are hiding behind a see-through plastic curtain. Burleigh - what an escape. Mind you I do not expect to see Burleigh s a international player as you are punting De Jongh to be. Even a miss tackle ratio of 23% is a disgrace - so lets leave the debate there.

Strike!!!!! OoMpie is too dumb to read the set up. Well you apparently want a top 13 hey? I give you Robbie Fruean....he played 10 games before departing with health issues......made 23 tackles, missed 10 for a missed tackle ratio of 30%. Now piss off you prick.

Carpetmuncher 100% correct. As a Shark supporter I just love Coetzee selections - especially when they play the Sharks. The CC final was an aberration - so that counts for zero. Why don't I have the talent not to put things so precisely in writing?