Pro2,471 posts
22 Jul 2013, 21:39
#1
22 Jul 2013, 21:39#1
According to Sky Sports.
Van den Heever leaves the Stormers for Munster.
Started by Shezza25 REPLIES650 VIEWS· 22 Jul 2013, 21:39
Newbie2 posts
22 Jul 2013, 21:47
#2
22 Jul 2013, 21:47#2
Newbie2 posts
22 Jul 2013, 21:52
#3
22 Jul 2013, 21:52#3
Any claim such as this was be substantiated with the source. It has therefore been moderated.
Pro9,374 posts
22 Jul 2013, 22:14
#4
22 Jul 2013, 22:14#4
Pro2,471 posts
22 Jul 2013, 23:18
#5
22 Jul 2013, 23:18#5
Thanks Ceradyne!
Unlucky pal (Fake moderator) better luck next time.
Club Pro495 posts
23 Jul 2013, 00:06
#6
23 Jul 2013, 00:06#6
Moderator of moderbyter, sies ga!
Captain49,914 posts
23 Jul 2013, 01:26
#7
23 Jul 2013, 01:26#7
JJ and van den Heever are two remarkably similar wings....both fast with good stepping ability. They are physical, but neither of them have good tackling technique. Van den Heever certainly drew the short straw in the trade as one went from the Bools to the Stormers and JJ went the other way.
-
I wonder who will emerge as the winner in the long run.
Coach57,555 posts
23 Jul 2013, 01:45
#8
23 Jul 2013, 01:45#8
Van den Heever is likely to become the Irish test wing. The Stormers and WP buggered up badly here with their backline selections. Van den Heever got thrust and speed to be effective. Talking about Defence - in the few games van den Heever did play he was better on defence than the useless De Jongh - whose 30% missed tackles he, De Villiers and De Allende had to cover.
Pro3,977 posts
23 Jul 2013, 11:59
#9
23 Jul 2013, 11:59#9
Are there any Stormers left in the Cape? Just wondering.
Seems to me the Stormers have the worst player retention of the South African Super Rugby unioins. Why is that?
Coach57,555 posts
23 Jul 2013, 12:05
#10
23 Jul 2013, 12:05#10
Bluebok
Easy to understand - they draw players to the side and then don't use them properly - so the players loose hope of progress in their careers. Coetzee is the main reason why that happens.
Pro3,977 posts
23 Jul 2013, 13:07
#11
23 Jul 2013, 13:07#11
Mike, I think you are right. Even the Cheetahs, who definitely don't have the Stormers budget, are able to retain their players. Must be something other than finances chasing the players away.
Captain40,032 posts
23 Jul 2013, 13:13
#12
23 Jul 2013, 13:13#12
The Stoermers under Coetzee have had it. Who is staying is becoming the question. When Rassie was cpoach we signed up great players - he was as i noted then a player magnet.
These are some of the players lost in recent times:
Blauw, Kritzinger (Where is he?) Carstens (was injured then left this year) Bekker, Quinn Roux, Francois Louw, Pieter Louw, Don Armand, Duvenage (he is leaving I believe) Catrakillis, Jaque Fourie, Whitehead, Sadie, JJ, Du plessis, Habana, Van der Heever and Joe Pietersen. I could well have missed some and by next season who else will be gone. Add to that the injuries and the disruption etc is enormous.
Our problems are we have useless managment and a mediocre coach. Mallet and Rassie walked out. That alone tells you its not right down here. Huge and faithful fan base. Top rugby schools.clubs and Universities. In a rich part of SA. WP has to be the worst managed franchise in the world. Everything going for us but ruined by bad management. They should all be sacked especially the president and his cahoots.
Mike you say Coetzee is the problem. Look deeper who appointed Coetzee. The rot is at the top. Who loots the professional arm (Stormers) and dishes the money out to the clubs who vote them in. Why do the Stormers have a ignificantly smaller budget than the Bulle. That is absurd. Pretoria is a dorp compared to Cape Town. There is huge potential down here.
Coetzee is an affirmative action appointment. Once one acknowledges he is not there on merit one has to ask why etc. How does an affirmative action appointed Bok backline coach who flops with the Boks get appointed head coach at WP/Stormers. Why do those responsible for making these appointments choose to appoint Coetzee? The Stormers under a former affirmative action Bok backline coach have been very poor in terms of try scoring as the stats shown here reveal. He should never have been appointed to the Boks or the Stormers.
Hence my dismay at the time Rassie walked out. I support the Stormers/WP full on but cannot support the pathetic managment shooting us in the foot.
Pro3,695 posts
23 Jul 2013, 15:36
#13
23 Jul 2013, 15:36#13
I just wish they would fire Coetzee, How can he still be in the Job by allowing the Stormers to finish 7th when they were on top last season. Really bad coaching and player management.
Coetzee seems to like to pick midgets over actual rugby players. He probably has a 1.75cm club, nobody can be taller than that.
Pietersen, Aplon, De Jong, Fourie, Scarra, Carr. All bloody fucking midgets
To me he is Little Napolean with piles for brains.
Captain30,741 posts
23 Jul 2013, 15:43
#14
23 Jul 2013, 15:43#14
Sad loss but in a way I don't blame the lad, he has had a raw deal at the Stormers, getting very little game time even when he showed signs of recovered form.
Yet another example of Coetzee overlooking quality players - Quinn Roux , JP du Plessis and now v/d Heever, who is next.......Pat Howard?
Pro9,905 posts
23 Jul 2013, 15:46
#15
23 Jul 2013, 15:46#15
He’s a midget himself.
Maybe he suffers from short ass syndrome.
No one’s allowed to be taller than he.
Coach57,555 posts
23 Jul 2013, 16:19
#16
23 Jul 2013, 16:19#16
Saffex
I personally think Howard will do well by going to the Cheetahs - they will use him properly. Can he play at 12 though?
The top school leaving signing should be Duhan van der Merwe. Hope he goes to the Cheetahs as well - even though the Bulls, Sharks and Stormers may be hunting for him as well. I think he would get a better deal playing wise by going to the Cheetahs than any of the other franchises.
Captain49,914 posts
23 Jul 2013, 19:06
#17
23 Jul 2013, 19:06#17
HasBEEN your facts are a little off. Here is the Stormers pool stage history under the various coaches/managers you mention:
-
Mallett years
2005..... 9th
2006......11th
-
Rassie Erasmus as coach
2008.....5th
2009....10th
-
Alistair Coetzee as coach
2010....2nd
2011....2nd
2012....1st
2013....7th
-
On the basis of the facts, I'd say hurrah for Alistair and thank heavens we got rid of the two posers, Rassie and Mallett.
Coach57,555 posts
23 Jul 2013, 20:42
#18
23 Jul 2013, 20:42#18
Mozart just adore the small players that Coetzee is hitched to - and he would obviously support Coetzee all out. He cannot help it - for there are virtually no posters left that does not say Coetzee is buggering up badly with his selections.
Pro3,695 posts
23 Jul 2013, 22:07
#19
23 Jul 2013, 22:07#19
Mozart you fucking idiot. Rassie was the director of rugby until last year and made a big difference to WP overall. Their juniors started to win titles which meant that the seniors got a conveyer belt of very talented players. It was only when he left that wheels started to come off.
Captain49,914 posts
23 Jul 2013, 22:43
#20
23 Jul 2013, 22:43#20
Gosh Corn, you are an uncouth fella. And dumb as well.....Rassie left in Feb 2012..... And how did the Stormers do in 2012? Oops, they were the top qualifying team. And bless me if WP didn't win the CC later in the year. I'm struggling to see how that constitutes falling apart.
As for the conveyor belt.... that would be Bishops, Rondebosch, SACS, Paarl Gym etc, etc, etc.
Western Province has always had a conveyor belt Rassie or no Rassie. What a gullible twit you are.
Coach57,555 posts
24 Jul 2013, 00:21
#21
24 Jul 2013, 00:21#21
Erasmus left in February 2012 - the team for 2012 was in place and Coetzee had the same benefit Mallett had when he took over from Du Plessis - an established team that could carry Coetzee through 2012. Then came 2013 and Coetzee started off by taking Jantjies on loan with a massive financial implication. So Catrakillis must go to help in that. His selections became the destruction tool of the Stormers and the players start leaving in greater numbers than ever before.
It is clear - they want to get away from the nightmare that is Coetzee - I am convinced of that. The poor performance this year will inevitably be followed by a worse one next year. That is the way it will happen - whether anybody like it or not.
They need a decent coach in the Stormers set up - not a coach with drag-ons like the midget back line that Coetzee is addicted to. Imagine a backline where the scrummie is bigger than either of the players number 11, 13 and 14. With Kolbe at 11, De Jongh at 13 and Aplon ar 14 - there is one certainty - the backline will disintegrate and the tackling stats of 30% will go up to 50% next year. Aplon is already at 40% and the JWC has shown us Kolbe is good as a sevens player - he is way too small to be a rugby player in any position. The stats are enlightening:-
Gio Aplon - 1,75 - 78 kgs
Johan de Jongh - 1,75 - 88 kgs
Cheslin Kolbe - 1,70 - 79 kgs
The heaviest player is De Jongh - and it is an established fact that he gets run over by opposing players 30% of all attempted tackles and Aplon gets the same treatment 40% of such tackles. Just not physically strong enough to be competitive - end of story.
The conveyor belt is now replaced by a contracting system - and the players get signed up elsewhere in droves - because Coetzee is clueless about player potential.
Why would somebody not offer De Jongh a contract to play overseas - that would solve a signoificant problem of the Stormers. I know why - because he is useless and rated as such by the clubs in Europe and Japan.
. .
Captain49,914 posts
24 Jul 2013, 00:56
#22
24 Jul 2013, 00:56#22
Bluebok I would say the Stormers have the worst player retention because they have the most players to retain.
Captain30,741 posts
24 Jul 2013, 01:09
#23
24 Jul 2013, 01:09#23
Coetzee and Plumtree are the worst candidates for having no clue who their best players are.
Look no further than Coetzee investing in the very average de Kock Steenkamp at lock ahead of Quinn Roux and Plumtree investing in the average Franco v/d Merwe over the Marais brothers.
Both average coaches - at least the Sharks have rid themselves of Plum, something the Stormers should have done with Coetzee
Coach57,555 posts
24 Jul 2013, 01:19
#24
24 Jul 2013, 01:19#24
Bluebok
Forget about Mozart - he lives on cloud 9 and loves to make wild and unsubstantiated statements. He talks about an imaginary conveyor belt from schools - forgetting that promising rugby playing school leavers get signed up and go to where they are contracted to. There is no conveyor belt at all.
Then we have the statement that they leave because they have the most players to retain? Frankly I cannot understand what he meant by that remark They have like other provinces a given number of players on contract - and it is the contracted people who leaves who are pertinent in this case - not anybody else.
They have over the past two years virtually lost 50% of all contracted players and their squad is in disarray - same as Coetzee's coaching. Poor player management and lack of player evaluation are legendary in the Cape.
Captain49,914 posts
24 Jul 2013, 02:58
#25
24 Jul 2013, 02:58#25
Dave..... de Kock had a very good season for the Stormers. As the stats I posted above show, the Stormers have been considerably better since Coetzee took over. His average round robin finish is 3....despite the horrible injury toll that ruined this season. Hell if he had Etzebeth all year I think we would have been well into the playoffs.
Coach57,555 posts
24 Jul 2013, 09:26
#26
24 Jul 2013, 09:26#26
Mozart
Just one question which no doubt you will refuse to answer. In the rugby hierarchy which is the superior job - the Director of Rugby or the head coach? To claim that Erausmus has to be given no credit for improvement of the Stormers up to 2012 is absurd - in view of the fact that the ultimate player identification, management and development is the responsibility of the Director - not the coach in this case.
Whilst Erusmus was around the squad showed steady improvement and even though he left in February 2012 - it is logical that the momentum would be maintained for a period after that. The wheels went loose when Coetzee had to start taking over all responsibilities - also those previously vested in Erasmus - and he came up with absurd solutions - ie letting Catrakillis go and contracting Jantjies. The wheels initially came off because of Jantjies and Coetzee's crazy backline selections.
I am the first one to admit that injuries had a major impact on performances of both the Sharks and the Stormers - the Sharks was even affected worse than the Stormers - but despite that Plumtree got fired. What is the difference in the case of Coetzee - why is he to be protected?
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