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FORUM / RUGBY /  VENTER: WE ARE GETTING THE DIAGNOSIS WRONG

VENTER: WE ARE GETTING THE DIAGNOSIS WRONG

Started by Just_win26 REPLIES1,108 VIEWS· 31 Aug 2018, 15:20
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
31 Aug 2018, 15:20
#1
31 Aug 2018, 15:20#1

IN THE SPOTLIGHT: Brendan Venter says SA Rugby and fans should be patient with Bok head coach Rassie Erasmus.

 

In a column for stuff.co.nz, Venter, who is former Bok centre and assistant coach, believes Erasmus should be given enough time to implement his own long-term plan. He also believes the current focus should rather be on the Boks’ progress and performance under Erasmus, rather than results

 

“As much as we want to blame [Heyneke] Meyer and [Allister] Coetzee for the Springboks’ slump in recent times – losing to Japan and suffering a record defeat to the All Blacks – we can’t cast them as scapegoats because Erasmus is now also struggling. And if he keeps on chopping and changing, because all he is looking at is results and winning at all costs, he will follow the same path as his predecessors.

 

“The powers that be need to be patient with Erasmus, so that he can buck the trend and implement a long-term vision. The fact the Springboks have slipped to their joint-lowest world ranking of seventh doesn’t bother me. My issue is not with rankings and results because I measure progress and performance.

 

“I live my life as a coach and doctor based on simple principles. The trick is to follow the process and be performance-driven.”

 

Venter says there is a “combination of factors” contributing to the decline in South African rugby.

 

“Erasmus is a very good coach, with strong pedigree but he was naïve by stating publicly that he must be judged solely on results and transformation, which are purely numbers-driven.

 

“In Mendoza, the Boks lost comfortably and there were only nine players of colour in the 23-man side, which is below the 50 percent transformation target. It was a double whammy for South Africa. In some way, I hope the public can understand the pressures on the national coach and be more lenient as the process unfolds. If they can cut the Springboks some slack and remain patient, the team will have a much better chance in the long run.

 

“Perhaps the public will have the wisdom to understand that nothing that happens over a long period of time ever has a simple solution. We are trying to treat the patient (South African rugby) but we are getting the diagnosis wrong. There is not one thing alone that is crippling South African rugby. However, everyone wants to blame the quota system, the player exodus or the coaches. The bottom line is that it’s a combination of factors, which are currently adversely affecting South African rugby.

 

“We need to come up with some way of evaluating where we want to go and what progress would look like from a Springbok perspective. Being results-based is the polar opposite of a performance-driven mentality and doesn’t translate to a high-performance environment.

 

“In said environment, you evaluate the performance and, if you are beaten by a better team, you try to come up with a new plan, improve where you failed and make the aspects of your game you are good at even better.

 

“The Holy Grail within any environment is consistency and longevity. In a performance-driven environment, even in the bad years you are still good. Springbok rugby needs to follow that model.”

 

Source: stuff.co.nz


JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
31 Aug 2018, 15:22
#2
31 Aug 2018, 15:22#2
Some of the incorrect diagnosis sounds familiar
Blaming prior coaches, wanting to chop and change player selection , not giving the coach time, etc.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
31 Aug 2018, 15:22
#3
31 Aug 2018, 15:22#3
Some of the incorrect diagnosis sounds familiar
Blaming prior coaches, wanting to chop and change player selection , not giving the coach time, etc.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
31 Aug 2018, 15:27
#4
31 Aug 2018, 15:27#4
Venter is a bore but I can't disagree with him on this. 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,253 posts
31 Aug 2018, 15:38
#5
31 Aug 2018, 15:38#5
Venter is an expert at given cliched opinions, especially when it is not his head on the block. He specializes in exit strategies, then counter-attacks after he has departed.
He saw the Springbok ship going down the tubes last year, and jumped ship at the most opportune moment so as to not be given the credit for his contribution within the Alister Coetzee era.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Sept 2018, 06:02
#6
01 Sept 2018, 06:02#6
Ah Venter, our failed de facto previous Head Coach.....produces a gem of loser think......forget about results, who cares about those. Focus instead on something subjective like 'progress'. Total drivel.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Sept 2018, 06:12
#7
01 Sept 2018, 06:12#7

Sure

Venter knows less about rugby  than you do!!!!  - The arrogance of Mozart is unbelievable - OH  I forgot Mozart claimed he, AO ad Pakie are the top rugby analysts in the world and they identify thing other analysts have been too stupid to see,   So I am not surprised by this.  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Sept 2018, 06:17
#8
01 Sept 2018, 06:17#8
Not surprising to see you defending Venter, you were delirious when this flop was appointed. As for the the claim I said 3 of us are the top rugby analysts in the world....nah....you are in the Twilight zone again.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Sept 2018, 06:24
#9
01 Sept 2018, 06:24#9

I am not defending Venter - he had to try and use the rubbish selections made by Coetzee amd could not.

My comments have nothing to do with defending Venter and everything to do with my ignorance in not realizing that your claim of being the top rugby analyst in the world has not been gicen due credit by me,  LMAO .   .   

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
01 Sept 2018, 12:13
#10
01 Sept 2018, 12:13#10

Perhaps the public will have the wisdom to understand that nothing that happens over a long period of time ever has a simple solution. We are trying to treat the patient (South African rugby) but we are getting the diagnosis wrong. There is not one thing alone that is crippling South African rugby. However, everyone wants to blame the quota system, the player exodus or the coaches. The bottom line is that it’s a combination of factors, which are currently adversely affecting South African rugby.

Dr Venter is a genuine brain. i have been saying this for years. Never a truer word spoken except in the Bible of course! keep speaking out Dr Venter your high degree of sani ty is most welcome. We have folk here already banding about stats when Rassie has barely stated. Hahahahahahaha all that shows is preconceived Bias!

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
01 Sept 2018, 12:29
#11
01 Sept 2018, 12:29#11

Does the patient still have a pulse ? 

I reckon 10 million volts might get em going eh ?

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
01 Sept 2018, 12:31
#12
01 Sept 2018, 12:31#12

Ha ha Wardad, good plan. Of course SA has problems with its electricity supply but let's not get into that.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
01 Sept 2018, 14:33
#13
01 Sept 2018, 14:33#13

You can't forget about the result. The result is symptomatic of performance. If the result isn't good, we need to go back and find what the problem is. The problem is that South Africa is very short of analytical people. They are emotional, and try to circumvent their shortcomings with emotional bluster that is unsustainable and unreliable. It's a lot of energy to expend when a simple solution is mo st often within reach. The first step is honesty. As we see from our media and plastic fans, that is also a rarity. Even worse, those who possess these capabilities are chased away. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Sept 2018, 15:10
#14
01 Sept 2018, 15:10#14
Dr Venter is a genuine rugby brain....nah, he is a walking, breathing excuse, abusing fans when they questioned the results. Now he is back making excuses again. Subtly justifying his own failure when he de facto had the helm.Sort of a court non jester. I hope we aren't in for 15 months of building, improving, bright spots, injuries, refs, weather, schedule, travel, it's just unfair.....it seems we are headed down that slippery slope. Winning is a necessary (and sufficient) condition....without a good winning record it's all bs......progress can only be measured in terms of more winning.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
01 Sept 2018, 15:34
#15
01 Sept 2018, 15:34#15
We are definitely in for another season or two of building at least, Sir Alex Ferguson didn't win anything for the first 3 years of his tenure at Man United. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Sept 2018, 15:40
#16
01 Sept 2018, 15:40#16
Rassie will never hang in there for 3 years.
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
01 Sept 2018, 15:42
#17
01 Sept 2018, 15:42#17

We are in that awkward phase like 1999-2002, when  there was a disjointed transition between generations. We suffered through both because of poor decision making in who coached the Boks. Had Jake had another 4 years, I guarantee you the Boks would have developed and Meyer would not have inherited a team who had just lost the better part of a dozen legends and with zero spine to the team. It didn't have to be this way. The media needs to be debarked as they always push the most mediocre players on us. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Sept 2018, 15:46
#18
01 Sept 2018, 15:46#18

Mozart 

The normal nut case BS about Erasmus.   

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Sept 2018, 15:54
#19
01 Sept 2018, 15:54#19
We don't have one wise rugby writer in the country....they are all shills or mavericks like Keo.
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
01 Sept 2018, 16:05
#20
01 Sept 2018, 16:05#20
I prefer the term Shillbillies 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Sept 2018, 20:29
#21
01 Sept 2018, 20:29#21
Ah 'Billy, Billy Billy'.......name the movie..
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
02 Sept 2018, 09:20
#22
02 Sept 2018, 09:20#22

Sorry to spoil the party...i f you are entirely honest, neither do we have any experts on this forum too...a little knowledge maybe but a little knowledge amongst the prejudiced one-eyes is probably more misleading than no knowledge at all.

We have some egocentrics here that appoint themselves as fundi's...but most of it is unbalanced and delusional.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
02 Sept 2018, 10:53
#23
02 Sept 2018, 10:53#23

Seb as per normal you are 100% correct about the approach of ma ny members on site - at times me included as well.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
02 Sept 2018, 11:35
#24
02 Sept 2018, 11:35#24

Seb i take exception to your baloney for obvious reasons!!!!!!!!!!!


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
02 Sept 2018, 11:58
#25
02 Sept 2018, 11:58#25

Beeno

Do you really believe we do not have prejudiced members on site?  I can name the three leading prejudiced members on site who normally use deception to argue their cases.   That is where I agree 100% with Seb.  

I do not regard you as really prejudiced - at times odd-ball iro New Zealand rugby,  but certainly more objective than the prejudiced members are on most issues. .      

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
02 Sept 2018, 12:08
#26
02 Sept 2018, 12:08#26

What exactly is Venter's claim to fame?

Anyone?

GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
02 Sept 2018, 17:07
#27
02 Sept 2018, 17:07#27

LOL..Beeno if you are a genuine man of faith then you must aspire to the truth even though it can be hurtful...in any event it applies to every one of us is not directly to any specific individual here...the difference between a true friend and a lackey/sycophant is that a friend will always tell you the truth whilst the lackey will flatter.

There's a difference between maliciously by offending somebody on purpose and somebody being offended by truth.

If you are offended by truth that's your problem. I have no obligation to not offend you if I am speaking the truth.The truth is supposed  to offend you , that's how I know you don't get it.


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