Vlagshit I notice

 Hahahaha. You are the one who has been ducking. You want to go back to that argument, then be my guest. Lets get back to David Miller and your own season stats, the league you play in, etc, shall we?

 There you go Dawie Kabouter. I have even saved you the time to try and find the thread again:

http://www.sarugby.com/forum.cfm?threadid=10811

 So let's start with our cricket season having just started talk me through that bird brain.

 Vlagshit I am waiting

 Nope. Our cricket season wasn't under discussion. Davis Miller's performance was, as was your own "miracle" season so far. Go back to that thread.

If you are talking about our domestic season, then I will be the first to put up my hand and say that I have no clue what our season has looked like, so far. Mainly because of two things. First of all, I do not watch our domestic cricket because it is not available over here. Secondly, the season has not yet started but I am sure that someone as knowledgeable as yourself knows it and it must just have slipped your mind.

If you are talking about our international season...... There is not really an international season, is there? It is more a matter of summer (home or away) and/or winter (away) internationals.

In any case, I think it is better to finish off existing matters, like you and David Miller's performances, before jumping onto the next issues, don't you think? That way we can keep things nicely in order.

 No you stupid prick you asked how I could average 70 odd when our season had just started so let's revisit that before I kick your arse regarding the rest we have dealt with Miller and you are clueless about that. 
We have moved on to my cricket and your pathetic but predictable insinuation that I was lying about my cricket you sick fuck.
So answer the first question prat how did you conclude that my season had just started wise man.

 OK. Go to that thread and explain it there. Or explain it here. As you wish but just don't duck and dive around it again. Why are you so sh!t scared to address it where it was originally discussed?
 
The only Sunday leagues that I could find have at this stage only had three or four rounds played. I had to draw my own conclusions because you have been ducking and diving my question about the league that you are playing in.

 I was banned you stupid prick and given I have all of 2 matches left and the rugby season has already started how the fuck do you conclude that our season has only just started - are you that fucking stupid?
So answer that one again you low life? Do you still think that my season has just begun huh?

 It would all be so much easier if you could just get yourself to tell us which league you are playing in. BTW, I hope you are not busy ducking and diving again, because I have not forgotten that the real issue was actually David Miller.

Vlagshit so effectively you just lied for you are too much of a low life to answer. The league I play in has stuff all to do with where we are in terms of the season.
As for Miller there is nothing you can say about him that detracts from the fact that with an average of 30 batting at 6 is pretty much spot on in ODI's. That of course a strike rate is of relevance in that form of cricket. He is a quality player and your takes on him is a load of utter shit.
But with reference to my season, just to let your lying pathetic ass know it's pretty much come to an end. 8 games played by myself 542 runs made at an average of 74 - FACT

 Oh but it has. The reason is that I know which league you play in, I can see for myself how many games they have played and I could form a better idea of how good, or how kak, your batting really is. There is, of course another side to it. There is a possibility that you only play the odd game or two in the league as well.

Talking of which...... is this perhaps you that they are talking about in this piece, hmm Dawie Kabouter?:

"Local guest David Searle was aggressive from the outset and Vic at the other end soon got into his stride so that 53 was posted for the first wicket at a good rate. Sujay Chakravarti was shaping well at number 3.........."

 Are these your stats, Dawie Kabouter? :

Matches: 7
Innings: 7
No: 1
Runs: 388
HS: 99
Ave: 64.67
4s: 0
6s: 0
100s: 0
50s: 4
Catches: 0
Stumpings: 0

So by telling you what league I played in you could tell how good I was as a bat wow you really are special in your own estimation.
Now back to the point, has our season just started wise man?
As for playing as a guest that could only have happened once or twice in my time, last time being for a London side a few months ago playing in this part of the world. 

 It is true David Miller's average is 30 but the rest is also true. Since you do not have the guts to discuss this on the original thread, I will probably have to repeat what I said on the other thread. Just to keep things in perspective you know.

"Here is something for you. Here is a player who has a higher batting average than Miller. Colin Ingram - 32.42. What about him? By your yardstick, he should be in the side ahead of Miller.

And then something else. You are p!ssing about Miller batting at six. Did you even know that his best average scoring is at no 7 while his worst batting average is at no 5? That blows your theory about him not having time to build an innings even more out of the water. The higher up he bats, in the order, the lower his averages become.

These are his batting averages in the different batting positions:

At no 5. Batting average - 14.67
At no 6. Batting average - 31.52
At no 7. Batting average - 36.75

How is that for basics?"

 Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9164 RE: Vlagshit I notice
September 11, 2014, 14:12:26 So by telling you what league I played in you could tell how good I was as a bat wow you really are special in your own estimation.
Now back to the point, has our season just started wise man?
As for playing as a guest that could only have happened once or twice in my time, last time being for a London side a few months ago playing in this part of the world. 

Let me repeat because you seem to be struggling with this. If I knew which league you played it, I could have done an exact calculation of how your batting figures really look. Then we would not have had this long discussion. It could have been dealt with ages ago.

The game that I quoted from was not a London club. It was on 9 July. Surely you could not have forgotten such detail already, could you? You should at least remember the name of the club in question. Which club was it Dawie, ou seun?

 Vlagshit get this into your head I don't give a shit what you have to say about Miller I have seen enough to conclude he is a class act and his average of 30 batting at 6 confirms that. Ingram was up the order you prick and therefore you cannot compare him to Miller helloooo. 
This is the very reason I can't be asked to debate Miller with you as you are stupid. The issue I had was you insinuating I was lying about my self you low life....

 I have only played one game as a guest this year so don't have a clue what you are on about.
As for my club let's just say that our club pro last year was an Aussie test bowler 

Colin Ingram's average when batting at 6 is exactly 40.
Miller's average when batting at 6 is 31.52

Your argument was that Miller would do better when he bat higher up the order. I have just shown you that he does better when he bats lower down the order.

Stick to b asics, as you have said yourself.

 I am not concerned about your club. I want to know which league you play in and how many games you have played. Just answer the question. Are those your figures, yes or no?

How many games did Ingram bat at 6, most his games were up the order.
Yep that's me excluding the last two games....the site has not been updated.

 Well what do you know. If that is you then we both have a few things to answer for. I was looking at the wrong leagues when I first started trying to put your batting averages into perspective. My apologies for that. That does leave you in a bit of a predicament though.

You have said that those stats does not include the last two games.

You have said the following on thread no 10811 http://www.sarugby.com/forum.cfm?threadid=10811:

"As for being caught or bowled that makes sense when pushing for runs......I was bowled on 154 on Sunday in the last over having opened the innings......I was going for a big one!!"

So, that would mean that your HS should be 154 or higher, and

"My average is 77.4 this season......I understand it well."

Now look at your stats again. I think you are correct that the results of the game on 31 August was not updated yet, but your stats include your scores for that game.

The reason I say that is because, when you look at your batting averages of the batsmen for the Club Sunday team, it gives your total runs as 371, HS as 99 and average as 74.2 after 6 games only. Those are for the games up to Sunday the 24th of August.

When we look at your player profile, though, it gives your number of games played as 7 for this season. In other words the batting figures for the game of the 31st is included on your profile. That gives your total as 388, HS still 99 and average down to 64.67. See where this is leading?


Now how about Miller batting better lower down the order when he has less time to build an innings?

Vlagshit are you saying that I did not make 154 two Sundays ago? That score has not been updated on the website - fact but be patient, it will be.
I did not play this past sunday sadly. 388 + 154 = 542 at an average of 77.4
What you on about re Miller?

It is true. 
He didn't play last weekend. 
I know why and he is not lying when he says he did not, Ceradyne. 

 I think that we will have to wait until it is updated then. In the meant time..... how many games have you played then, 6 or 7?

OK, let's recap on Miller. You had the following to say:

Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9179 RE: Proteas wilt against MJ
September 03, 2014, 09:08:19  Miller fails so often - wow I can see you are abreast with the cricket - about as close as you are with your rugby calls.
Averaging 30 in ODI s batting at 6 when his job is to get a move on with not many overs in hand and where protecting your wicket is hardly a priority  looks pretty impressive to me.
Miller is a class act - give it up mozzie
I have showed you that he normally comes in at around overs 22 to 26 out of 50. That, IMO, is loads of time to settle in and with loads of overs in hand. Ou Maaikie made the same assumption as you, i.e. that he normally comes in late in the innings.

clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12789 RE: Proteas wilt against MJ
September 03, 2014, 09:35:41  Dave
You misunderstood what I wrote.   I think the same of Miller as you do - but he did not produce the goods in the recent series.   Miller often enough comes in so late in games - he cannot get his eye in and has to bash balls from the start - did not work out recently.   

That is simply not true.

The fact is that his biggest scores were posted when he came in even later in the game with even less overs to "get his eye in" and to "build an innings".

His figures again in recent games:

Bat Opposition  Ground    Match Date  Scorecard
3    Australia     Harare    2 Sep 2014   ODI # 3522
0    Zimbabwe   Harare   29 Aug 2014   ODI # 3518
-     Australia     Harare  27 Aug 2014   ODI # 3516(Did not bat)
13* Zimbabwe Bulawayo 21 Aug 2014   ODI # 3510
45   Zimbabwe Bulawayo 19 Aug 2014   ODI # 3508
-  Zimbabwe    Bulawayo 17 Aug 2014   ODI # 3507(Did not bat)
4*  Sri Lanka Hambantota 12 Jul 2014    ODI # 3502
4    Sri Lanka     Pallekele   9 Jul 2014     ODI # 3501
36*Sri Lanka     Colombo    6 Jul 2014     ODI # 3500
3  SL Pres. XI     Moratuwa     3 Jul 2014     Other OD

I have given you another breakdown to show what he scored and at what stages of the games he went in to bat:

ODI no. 3522 Australia
In at over no 22. Out in over no 25. Score - 3 (He came in before halfway through the game.)

ODI no. 3518 Zimbabwe
In at over no 26. Out in over no 26. Score - 0

ODI no. 3510 Zimbabwe
In at over no 24. Score - 13*

ODI no. 3508 Zimbabwe
In at over no 26. Out in over no 36. Score - 45

ODI no. 3518 Zimbabwe
In at over no 26. Out in over no 26. Score - 0

ODI no. 3502 Sri Lanka
In at over no 49. Out in over no 26. Score - 4*
(Amla and AB posted centuries, which is why he only went in so late in the game)

ODI no. 3501 Sri Lanka
In at over no 20. Out in over no 22. Score - 4

ODI no. 3500 Sri Lanka
In at over no 42.  Score - 36*
(Amla posted 65, QDK 135, JPD 59 and AB 77) See what he scored despite having much less time to build an innings?

ODI no. 3444 India
In at over no 37. Score - 56* Same as above.

ODI no. 3443 India
In at over no 44. Out in over no 44. Score - 0
(De Kock and Amla posted centuries)

ODI no. 3442 India
In at over no 50. Score - 5*

To give further proof that the issue of coming in to bat later in the game is an issue, have a look at his batting averages per batting position:

At no 5. Batting average - 14.67
At no 6. Batting average - 31.52
At no 7. Batting average - 36.75

Judging according to his averages, batting at no 6 is too high up the order if you ask me and no 7 is usually kind of "reserved" for a bowler/allrounder and since Miller does not bowl.............

I have now played 8 games for the Sunday side one of which was a cup game so not sure if it is included in the stats but presume it is.
Batting 5, 6 or 7 is neither here nor there. His best spot would be at 6 as a hard hitter and given his overall average is a respectable 30 he has more than proved his worth regardless of his current form.
Generally coming in at 6 you would expect to only face 20 odd overs so chances are you would play the odd rash shot in a bid to push the score along.
Miller works for me and SA obviously thinks the same

 Hell, it took a long time to arrive at this point. This was what was said:

"Can we afford a young gun like Miller who fails so often."
It is true. Look at his figures:

Bat Opposition  Ground    Match Date  Scorecard
3    Australia     Harare    2 Sep 2014   ODI # 3522
0    Zimbabwe   Harare   29 Aug 2014   ODI # 3518
-     Australia     Harare  27 Aug 2014   ODI # 3516(Did not bat)
13* Zimbabwe Bulawayo 21 Aug 2014   ODI # 3510
45   Zimbabwe Bulawayo 19 Aug 2014   ODI # 3508
-  Zimbabwe    Bulawayo 17 Aug 2014   ODI # 3507(Did not bat)
4*  Sri Lanka Hambantota 12 Jul 2014    ODI # 3502
4    Sri Lanka     Pallekele   9 Jul 2014     ODI # 3501
36*Sri Lanka     Colombo    6 Jul 2014     ODI # 3500
3  SL Pres. XI     Moratuwa     3 Jul 2014     Other OD

Seven innings. Two reasonable scores. The rest shyte.

Then there was a feeble excuse for his failures:

"Dave
You misunderstood what I wrote.   I think the same of Miller as you do - but he did not produce the goods in the recent series.   Miller often enough comes in so late in games - he cannot get his eye in and has to bash balls from the start - did not work out recently."  

Also not true. He almost always have at least 24 overs to "get his eye" in. If he cannot do it in 20+ overs then I don't know. You cannot bat him higher up the order because then he becomes shyte. You cannot bat him lower because then you have to forfeit a bowler because we don't have enough quality allrounders. If we had a few allrounders who could bowl and bat at around 30-35 runs average, he would not have had spot in any case. Miller is simply there because he is sort of OK'ish. Not because he is the best thing since sliced bread. He is certainly no Shaun Pollock, Lance Klusener or Mark Boucher. That is the kind of ODI no6 that you need. Not Miller but unfortunately we do not have a Zulu, Bouch or Polly.

Crikey, I just read that as Miller works for you, Mr S....ha ha ha !    

Oh vlagshit catch a wake up 20 or 25 overs big deal.....Miller does not fail he averages 30 end of.
Averaging 30 batting at 6 in a ODI is more than respectable end of

And that, coming from someone who always goes on about how he hates mediocrity.

Two acceptable scores in seven innings. Ah well..............

 Form is temporary class is permanent plus batting at 6 in an ODI is hardly conventional.

Yeah right. I do not see a lot of class here:



There seems to be more glimpses of failure than class in there.

38 Innings.
4 X Ducks
5 X 50s
4 Between 30 and 50
Only 4 between 20 and 30
21 Of them below 20. Thirteen of those in single figures.
To his credit, six of his low scores were *scores.

Or, if you want to put it in another way. 38 innings. Four of them good. Four of them OK and thirty failures. Permanent Class..............?

 If he was that crap how would he average 30. 
Batting at 6 in an ODI there is a good chance you are going to throw your wicket away at times.
He looks the business to me. I am a fan

 Throw your wicket away at times. 50% of the time? Thirty failures out of 38 innings? That means a 78% chance that he might fail, every time he hoes in to bat? Only a 13% chance of scoring more than 20? Go for it.

He hoes into bat ?! Maybe he should try changing his approach,Ceradyne    

 Yep batting at 6 there is a good chance you are going to have force the pace early on in your innings 50% of the time with the consequence that you will get out

 If I have to choose between a batsmen who will give me 25 runs 85% of the time and one who would give me 30 runs 22% of the time, I know who I would choose.

 If there was a better option at 6 than Miller then he would be playing. The fact that he averages 30 tells me he produces the goods more often than not.
He impresses me, good technique and hard hitter - perfect for an ODI side at 6. He is yet to hit his full straps. 

 Averages per year:

2010 - 30.00
2011 - 29.25
2013 - 32.00
2014 - 28.75

He is not a good performer on the road either. Away average - 27.26. Home average - 37.09.

Will he improve?