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Well at least there is a bit of intrigue about this AB test

Started by Mozart17 REPLIES914 VIEWS· 13 Sept 2017, 14:43
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Sept 2017, 14:43
#1
13 Sept 2017, 14:43#1
There hasn't been any since the WC semi, which we led till deep in the game. Ironically it appeared we played HM rugby against Oz, just watching the game. And the kick/pass/run stats confirmed that after the game....as did the metres run. Supposedly we are now much more mobile....but in my memory bank I recall Vermeulen and Louw way out wide as links to two tries against the ABs at Elllis Park. ... So what is better. Well firstly we have played 3 generous teams. The French chaps were on vacation, the Bargies were determined to self destruct and Oz couldn't protect a 13 point lead against a team that had no first phase game. Maybe the ABs will implode as well, but the Bargies and all the subsequent criticism probably did us no favours. .. Secondly we have a team this year. Last year we had a rabble with changing players every week. Continuity is just as important as getting the selections right....and a few wins have lifted spirits, as has more competent coaching. ... Tactically the main improvement is defence and the choke tackle that turns into a maul. We killed the Bargies and Frogs with that tactic. We are also getting to the breakdown more effectively than last year....I suppose that's one aspect of mobility. .. Offensively Jantjies is taking the ball up to the advantage line less and less. In that sense we have decisively departed from the Lions model....and in the process nullified all our first, second and third phase zip. We can't make progress when the defence is lined up. But we have become sharper on turnover ball with both Kolisi and Keintjie backing up the subsequent play. Without Kleintjie that aspect will fade a bit. And if a side chokes off our turnover ball by protecting the breakdown which Oz totally failed to do.....the offence disappears. .. The basics are solid so far, but we haven't met a team with an aggressive scrum yet. And the kicking game remains good but a lucky packet which depends on which Jantjies shows up. .. We are better than last year....but nothing much has changed since 2013/14 except for the players...most of whom aren't as good as these early successes suggest. The back three and the centres will certainly have to change. And we still need an offence.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
13 Sept 2017, 15:27
#2
13 Sept 2017, 15:27#2
 Adding to the intrigue are a few questions on the AB side as discussed on other threads, e.g. Barrett (kicking problems - which overall stats disprove); SBW who has been average; injuries to props; etc. 
Overall the ABs are integrating new players (dealing with B. Smith sabbatical) and adjusting to new defensive tactics (rush defense, choke defense). All of which is sufficient to make the ABs less of a sure thing for a win. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Sept 2017, 15:51
#3
13 Sept 2017, 15:51#3
Good points JW....the ABs aren't 'settled science' at this point either.....still having Reid, Jaws and Whitelock as a core certainly helps. And there are some brilliant young talents coming through.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
13 Sept 2017, 18:17
#4
13 Sept 2017, 18:17#4
 There is no team in SA. No basics secured. At the moment, the world of rugby is at flames as they fear to lose SA as a major selling argument for their world stage events.
SA, that was already a priviledged nation, is even more favoured by reffing.
FR does not play to win. AR understood the rules and only try their best against a team like NZ, as a victory against NZ will not go against the wishes of the world rugby.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
13 Sept 2017, 18:36
#5
13 Sept 2017, 18:36#5
 What a crock of BS. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
13 Sept 2017, 21:21
#6
13 Sept 2017, 21:21#6
I think Tra d has brain damage.
PA
PapamoaClub Pro683 posts
13 Sept 2017, 21:53
#7
13 Sept 2017, 21:53#7
 No doubt the boks are better, but the wallabies are slowly crawling their way back to. The ABs are in serious transition phase, we only looked so good last year because the Boks and the Wallabies were so crap!! But, we have introduced a number of new players that are still getting use to putting on a black jersey. The Boks are great at the rucks, the ABs struggled with the Pumas slowing us down at the tackle area, we have to get a few extra numbers at the rucks and mauls to fee the ball up and keep things moving or they'll turn us over all night!!! The two newbies on the front row will be interesting, very talented players so should be a good clash. But the bulk of the ABs are our top side, especially in the backs. But, it's up to the forwards to get the momentum and the hard work has to be done first. Should be a good forward battle, our set piece is looking really solid... But we'll find out how solid.... The only real comparison we could make was against the B&I Lions, we did pretty well against them.. see how the Boks go comparing it to that series 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
13 Sept 2017, 22:02
#8
13 Sept 2017, 22:02#8
 I'm not too hopefull for the Boks. Wee hope is still better than total despair?
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
13 Sept 2017, 22:16
#9
13 Sept 2017, 22:16#9
 Perhaps Trad was a hooker who hooked with his head. SA coaching has not always been the best - some might say
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Sept 2017, 01:22
#10
14 Sept 2017, 01:22#10
An should be A.....what a nutter.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,258 posts
14 Sept 2017, 01:59
#11
14 Sept 2017, 01:59#11
The traditionalist was wrong about the growth of rugby. 
The last few months have been the biggest advance in club rugby. America may get involved as well, and possibly the Pacific Islands. 
It may stop players playing in Japan- with the option to play Super Rugby and Pro14- with more player rotation and bigger squads.

SuperRugby will would have improved with fewer teams- although- now pro14 might end up taking the best resources if this turns into a big money advancement. 

We just need to build up the Cheetahs and Kings quickly. The Kings especially need to draft in curry cup players from other unions as an SOS.



TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
14 Sept 2017, 13:29
#12
14 Sept 2017, 13:29#12
 Wrong about the growth of rugby? Nowhere it was stated that rugby will not grow.

On the contrary, it was stated many times that more and more money will be involved in NH clubs, making it harder and harder for SA to compete to retain their players.
The fact that SA is not the economic powerhouse required to keep players at home was written many times. This is one cause to terminate rugby in SA.

SA can not compete financially with NH clubs and can not compete sportively with NZ. The turn to professionalism was utterly missed in SA.

So far, things are going the way they were told they would go.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
14 Sept 2017, 13:32
#13
14 Sept 2017, 13:32#13
 Perhaps Trad was a hooker who hooked with his head. SA coaching has not always been the best - some might say

Indeed. In years, SA training has not been able to train one decent non white player.
Other nations managed.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,258 posts
14 Sept 2017, 14:40
#14
14 Sept 2017, 14:40#14
The pound and Euro are about to hit SA shores. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
14 Sept 2017, 18:21
#15
14 Sept 2017, 18:21#15

Given the AB's are hardly looking an invincible force these days thanks to the Lions effectively derailing their lofty perch, a merit Bok side could really have tested them this weekend.


Unfortunately as per usual our Bok side is sold short thanks to a coach who knows little about who constitutes our best 15 or 23 for that matter.


I like Coetzee at 15 and he started his test career well but we have seen very little from him lately. Is he better than Willie or Gelant - I am not convinced


How Rhule got selected ahead of Combrink, v/Wyk, Nkosi and Ismiel is beyond me. While he looked to have improved his defence during Super rugby, he reminded us just how poor he is in this department on his return to test rugby. I like him as a player he is quick with good feet but he is not the best. Skosan deserved a crack at test rugby but I cant help but think that test rugby might be a stretch too far for him like Rhule, given their lack of physicality.


I am a fan of our centre pair who have been good this year, but I cant help but think the likes of Janse v Rensburg, Vorster and Am are just as good. Same can be said of de Allende.


Jantjies has been good at 10, good to see Pollard on the bench instead of the brittle Bosch


Cronje is an insult at 9, lacks talent and flair and takes 3 steps before passing. Hougaard, Faf, Reinach, Groom and Schrauder are all better options


Beast is at best solid, Kitshoff is twice as good - enough said


Marx is a freak, love him


Coenie was great at 3 proving all his doubters wrong. Bringing in average Dreyer to replace him is madness. It should have been Wilco Louw with Nyakane on the bench.


We are sorted at lock with Eben, PSDT and Lood.......I would love to see Paul Willemse added to the squad. Love Mostert as a player but like Itoje he is not a lock, he lacks grunt.......move him to 7.


Kolisi and Kriel have been brilliant but Kolisi is not a 7. Cassiem is a bloody insult, where he found favour is beyond me - made more ridiculous by the fact that he is not even an 8. Marcel Coetzee, Arno Botha, Mtembu, Notshe and Liebenberg are all better options at 8.


If you want to experiment move Kolisi to 8 with a bruiser at 7 like either of the du Preez twins or Jacques du Plessis or Mostert. 


But the most obvious option at 8 is Marcel Coetzee playing brilliantly there for Ulster right now. He is now a physical freak who has added a bit of finesse to his game.


Kriel or Kolisi at 6, with one of the bruisers at 7 and Coetzee at 8 would be perfect


So on Saturday we will be taking on a less than emphatic AB's side with a half baked Bok side.......nothing bloody changes

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
14 Sept 2017, 19:56
#16
14 Sept 2017, 19:56#16
 The pound and Euro are about to hit SA shores

Fiat have been hitting SA shores for a long time : SA bought themselves a burst in welfare by exporting SA environment. Nothing new.

Franchises involved in the NH are plunged in a league they must pay more to keep their players. Pro revenues will not allow them to compete with the english and french league neither with some other pro franchises.

Money will be allocated to pay players, it will not become more profitable.

Those franchises are going to compete with other SA franchises first. They will serve as platform to ship players to the NH.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
14 Sept 2017, 20:07
#17
14 Sept 2017, 20:07#17
 Rugby fantasy all the way.  The endless game of naming a selection without even bothering to check for team cohesiveness, complementarity etc

Best part is while the fanciers admit that SA has not grown any decent non white player , let alone world class players, they all come with their non white players who are supposed to deliver.

Newsflash: SA has not grown one single decent non white player. Zero, zip, nada. They will all perform as poorly as the ones who are already included in the squad.
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
20 Sept 2017, 00:18
#18
20 Sept 2017, 00:18#18
 q
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