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FORUM / RUGBY /  Well what did we learn.....again

Well what did we learn.....again

Started by Mozart11 REPLIES230 VIEWS· 23 Mar 2014, 00:39
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MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Mar 2014, 00:39
#1
23 Mar 2014, 00:39#1

Steyn needs to be Bok 10. Once he was moved to flyhalf he took charge. If the Sharks had made that switch at the half they would probably have won.

 

Alberts is crucial in these tough games...man that guy did a lot of work.

 

By contrast Coetzee's fetching skills evaporated against a  real fetcher like Stegman. For the rest he was manhandled

 

The Bulls lineout is dominating again...I wonder why that is.

 

Another day of zero from the Bools centres. JJ was finally the last man standing, so he scored a try. But for the rest he did his usual invisible man act. Serfontein is just irrelevant.

 

Hougaard had a few promising moments which he blew, but that was probably his fist competent game at scruhalf, although his box kicking remains a mess.

 

If not Fransie at 10, Boshoff keeps doing well....in general play and of course in kicking.

 

Faf had a few mistakes, but he did so much....his break was vintage.

 

 

More on the Cheetah/ Stormers tomorrow....but it seems there will be crow on the menu.

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Mar 2014, 10:51
#2
23 Mar 2014, 10:51#2
 Mozart
When you come with Steyn as flyhalf again - tell me one thing:- aside from kicking at goal what did he do positively in the last five games that qualify him for that position.   Did he break any tackles for real gain in territory - did he do any positives in the passing game - did he make strong tackles?
He only kicked well at goal - for the rest he was more of a hindrance to Insiofar as the fourth question is ocencerned the answer is zerothe team than a positive.   How many tackles did he miss?  How many balls did he hand over to the opposition?  How many penalties did he give away?  Did he initiate any plays that had positive results for the Sharks?  
I will give you one answer to the the first three questions in the previous paragraph.   The answer is easy - more than any other flyhalf playing in the various franchises.  Insofar as the fourth question is concerned the answer is plain and simple - ZERO.
You wonder why the Bulls did well in line-outs?   The answer is simple = WILLEMSE.
As for Alberts he had a good game until he lost possession of the ball in a tackle and the Bulls ended up fifty meters down the field.  After that you never saw him in the game again.   He did squat.
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
23 Mar 2014, 13:18
#3
23 Mar 2014, 13:18#3
 Wee matfiled must not come near a Bok side he is as pap as ever. Heck Kan Kan is the Sharks best line out man. The loss of Du Toit is huge for them. They also seriously miss Jordaan.
Best flyhalfves at present are Jean Louis and Boschoff. Best scrummie is Faf De Klerk.
Gaining in stature is Bulls fullback and 7. Greying puts in a huge amount of work. Potgieter was better than expected but he needs to be managed as he can't sustain this sort of performance if played too often.
JJ and Serfontein are showing ZIP.
Still dont see Frans doing too much. But his distance goal kicking is a valuable asset. If only he would get going.
As I predicted the bulle won and Jake should not have made certain comments!
ST
Sun-Tzu
Club Pro713 posts
ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
23 Mar 2014, 13:41
#4
23 Mar 2014, 13:41#4
What we learned was not that Frans is a 10, rather that the Sharks do not have a quality specialist 10.

The Bulls were better at the breakdown because of their superior cleaning and speed in support. Coetzee has been phenomenal, but without the Shark pack dominating, he would naturally fade; only Brussow can suppress the opposition in a dominated pack. But he is the best in the business.

To be quite honest with you, I don't see why so many people are really surprised. The Sharks had zero effect on the Bull linout in game 1, were overpowered and but for the ridiculously inept play of Fouche they probably would have nabbed that game as well! I think we all need to give Ludeke some credit, the past three years have been extremely difficult yet he keeps turning things around.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Mar 2014, 14:44
#5
23 Mar 2014, 14:44#5

Well it was Loftus and the Bools are much better there. They have a simple game plan, but the technical skill in all the pieces is deceptive.

 

Why do I like what Fransie did yesterday? He took charge in the last 15 minutes and relished the challenge. Certainly he had no running metres or fancy passes, but he provided leadership...put the ball into the 22 and motivated his fellow players. He also made some huge hits in defence.

 

Give me a competitor vs a wet noodle any day.

 

Coetzee has a huge work rate but he is neither a fetcher, a ball carrier or a big hitting defender. In tough physical games he fades. Yesterday was a big test of his ability to influence a test like game....the results were not good.

 

Matfield called the lineouts, he took one Sharks ball, he took kickoffs, he made 25 metres on the run and tackled well. He is still a huge factor.

 

The Sharks showcased 3 of Dave's youngsters yesterday. I thought Sithole looked better than JJ, but still green. This was the first time I have seen Swiel....he looks competent, but still pretty much a school boy. Some of the gaps he tried to force just don't happen in S15 rugby. Most exciting of the bunch was Esterhuizen....the fact that he dropped his first pass was down to his desire to do something with the ball. He may be our future Bok 13...he has the physical credentials, and unlike wet noodle JJ he seems to have some heart.

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Mar 2014, 15:42
#6
23 Mar 2014, 15:42#6
 Mozart 
Of what did Steyn take charge - I saw one instance where he insisted that he and not Swiel kick at goal.
For the rest his taking charge consisted of kicking away aimlessly - for which he was severely criticized by one of the commentators - a ball that should have been passed. He also gave away a penalty in front of  the posts gifting the opposition three points.
Somebody taking charge must lead by example and that just did not happen.  You claimed he put in some strong tackles - but that did not result in turnover of possession or any appreciable advantage.  He did one cover tackle - which I thought was good - for the rest his tackles were bog-ordinary and he also missed a tackle -which is low for him as he routinely miss more tackles.  
Another example you quoted is putting the ball into the Bulls 22 - that he did from penalty kicks - but he failed miserably with one of those as well.  He did a penalty kick from 10 meters outside fo the Bulls half and kicked the ball out 5 meters from the Bulls 22.  
Look I accept that you must justify your viewpoint on Steyn at 10 - but myths will not help here - facts will.  Strong tackles in this case are imaginary, taking leadership the same. 
Incidentally young Esterhuizen was on the field of play for 15 minutes - in that 15 minutes he did more with ball in hand than Ste yn did in the full 80 minutes he played.          
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Mar 2014, 01:09
#7
24 Mar 2014, 01:09#7

Well OOm there is no point in educating you....but just to sow a seed of doubt in the self satisfied miasma that pollutes your ability to reason , this is what Rugby 24 said: 

 

"The Sharks, however, did not back down with Steyn, who made a nuisance of himself throughout the match, playing a significant part for his side."

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Mar 2014, 01:56
#8
24 Mar 2014, 01:56#8
 Mozart
I do not go by what newspapers said about a player, I go with what I saw with my own eyes.  Some of the descriptions are ludicrous.   He made nuisance of himself throughout the match could refer to anything like kicking goals - but unfortunately is in fact not reflected by anything else.  
 Let me quote you again:-
"he took charge in the last 15 minutes and relished the challenge."
Is that supported by "Steyn, who made a nuisance of himself throughout the match, playing a significant part for his side."
Sure - Steyn kicked four penalties for his sided - that could be a "nuisance" - for the rest he did bugger all of significance - a fact which is confirmed statistically as well.   
Incidentally = in the last 15 minutes of the game when according to you "he took charge" the only points scored by the Sharks  was a penalty he kicked.  Should he have kicked for the corner and try for a try or was the kick at goal the option.  Remember what was said about the captaincy of Robshaw in the 2012 Twickenham test?   Was that not the same kind of negative decision?   Was it not in that time that Steyn was criticized by the commentators for the ludicrous decision to kick a ball away - where passing was required?   
Mozart - please stick to facts - not fiction.   Steyn/s contribution consisted of kicking at goal - not an iota more.  Another severely disappointing performance by a player who should establish a strong impact by the Sharks back line on the game.   
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Mar 2014, 14:17
#9
24 Mar 2014, 14:17#9

Ah yeah so JJ and Serfontein did nothing did they........was that any less than Jean, de Allende, Frans, Sithole etc........what a joke, how much ball did the centres get in these games?

 

 

Try provide some context and its useless pointing fingers at the Bulls centres when none of the other SA centres did anything of note

 

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Mar 2014, 14:39
#10
24 Mar 2014, 14:39#10
 Saffex
You must not get upset with Mozart - he lives in a dream world where reality counts for nothing.  When he criticize players - look at them twice.  He is bound to fib and not stick to reality.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Mar 2014, 14:47
#11
24 Mar 2014, 14:47#11

Mike I never get upset with Moz.........I just like to point out his prejudices........he writes that JJ and Serfontein did little.....last I checked JJ scored a try.......and what exactly did his favourite Jean do........sweet stuff all, much like Frans  

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Mar 2014, 17:44
#12
24 Mar 2014, 17:44#12
Saffex 
I was very disappointed by Francois Steyn  in the last four matches he played in.  As an example I referred elsewhere to the fact that with ball in hand Esterhuizen in the game on Saturday in 13 minutes did more than Steyn did in 80 minutes.  That is just not good enough - sad to say.   
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