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FORUM / RUGBY /  What does Etzebeth have to do?

What does Etzebeth have to do?

Started by Mozart16 REPLIES256 VIEWS· 10 Nov 2014, 20:43
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Nov 2014, 20:43
#1
10 Nov 2014, 20:43#1

It seems fans were waiting for Eben to be super human. On Saturday he was part of a winning scrum and took two Irish lineout balls against the throw. He carried the ball up seven times, made as many metres as Coetzee, but never lost the ball. He  beat a tackle and offloaded. His tackle count was low, but that's rare.

 

I think he is still regaining his full match edge, but he is so much better than Lood. We seem to have vastly different standards for different players.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Nov 2014, 20:47
#2
10 Nov 2014, 20:47#2
 Mozart
Etzebeth is super-human - in Tight 5 play he has to do the work of two locks - since Matfield is no good and has no grunt.   The latters function in total is for somebody to help him jumping in line-outs - for the rest he does zilch.  
SH
Sharky54Club Pro247 posts
10 Nov 2014, 21:00
#3
10 Nov 2014, 21:00#3
What does Etzebeth have to do ?

As a start - play a few games in a row without injury ?

I rate him - just cant rely on him. Made of glass.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Nov 2014, 21:24
#4
10 Nov 2014, 21:24#4
Well I take it you feel the same way about Bakkies who replaced him then OOM.
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
10 Nov 2014, 22:22
#5
10 Nov 2014, 22:22#5

 I rate him - just cant rely on him. Made of glass. - Sharkie


I think Bismarck will disagree with that.

SH
Sharky54Club Pro247 posts
10 Nov 2014, 22:48
#6
10 Nov 2014, 22:48#6
Ag ou Blikkies - did you ever get a stinger in rugby ? If piekinien Willie Le Roux put his arm in the right place he could have done the same thing to Bismark, Duanne or even Etzebeth.

From what I recall it was Bismark smiling at the end of that game
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Nov 2014, 03:41
#7
11 Nov 2014, 03:41#7
 Mozart
Bakkies does nothing - whether in Tight phase of play or elsewhere.  Having the two of Matfield and Bakkies at lock is like looking for a needle in a haystack insofar as Tight 5 play is concerned.  Bakkies is slightly better than Matfield in that regard - but in Tight 5 play every other lock in SA on  Super 15 level, is substantiallly better than the gruntless Matfield 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Nov 2014, 06:29
#8
11 Nov 2014, 06:29#8
So you say without one stat or video clip to back up that claim. So it's all down to what we see.  
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
11 Nov 2014, 07:32
#9
11 Nov 2014, 07:32#9
 
The best lock in the country ... on form he's the best lock on the planet.

Everyone goes through a slump at one time or another.

Leave him be.

Right now I would have him playing at 5 with Willemse at 4.

Matfield is a temporary fix. Meyer should have looked toward the long term and kept Eben at 5 permanently. Instead he robs Etzebeth of his confidence by bringing on Grandpa Bakkies. What astounds me even more is that he honestly thinks that Grandpa will be an improvement.

The stupidity of this man seems infinite.


  
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
11 Nov 2014, 07:38
#10
11 Nov 2014, 07:38#10

I am beginning to think that Etzebeth is possibly our best option at 5 going forward, Meyer had an issue with Pieter Steph du TOit being too respectful to senior players when calling the line outs.


It still does not solve our problem currently because Meyer is not going to drop Victor, injuries have really curtailed progress f the youngsters this year.


Pieter Steph du Toit, Arno Botha , have been missing in action the whole season.


WHat has happened to Lewies, is he injured? 

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
11 Nov 2014, 07:42
#11
11 Nov 2014, 07:42#11
I can still see the contribution that Matfield makes. Bakkies, however, is done. I just don't see what value he adds on the field anymore. I don't think even Lood can be slower and more lethargic.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
11 Nov 2014, 07:49
#12
11 Nov 2014, 07:49#12

I am severely split on Matfield, as soon as I think he is still worth it I look at a match like Saturday and start wondering if there is really ay benefit in having him there, firstly he did not steal one line out on the weekend, it was the newbies that stle the line outs, now Victor has been seen as the best line out exponent in the last decade, would that not suggest he should still be able to steal opponent balls?


Etzebeth has always had the quick muscle reflex to outjump his opposing lock and hnce although he does not have the nous Matfield has, he has quick reactions.


Hell even Mohoje steals the odd line out.


In the physical stakes Matfield has never been the greatest, but as one gets older that physicality deteriorates even more, and in contact he is now easily dealt with.


So you really only look at him as leadership, at what point does lack of form outweigh leadership?  

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
11 Nov 2014, 08:02
#13
11 Nov 2014, 08:02#13
I just don't know. We've only trialed one new lock (forgive me if I forgot someone) at test level this season and that's Lood, who didn't instill much confidence. So what now. I'd love to see us play a game without Matfield to see what impact that really has on our lineouts. But we don't have another #5 lock. Just like we lack a specialist 13...and a proper scrumhalf...and a breakdown sniper...
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,293 posts
11 Nov 2014, 08:07
#14
11 Nov 2014, 08:07#14
Matfield is going to be in the team until the world cup, with Eztebeth at 4.  If PSTD was fit he could be on the bench and pushing Matfield for the starting position. 
We need to get rid of Bakkies, but Lood Foot offers very little so far at test level. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Nov 2014, 08:14
#15
11 Nov 2014, 08:14#15
 BB
My problem is that Matfield seems to supercede  De Viliers as captain - and give all kind of innstructions to for instance Pollard to kick for the corner instead of kicking for goal.   If it works out - Matfield gets the credit - if it does not, DE Villiers gets the blame for being wrong.   Matfield is Meyer's rela favourite and he would surely tell Meyer I did not really have the power to tell Pollard what to do - De Villiers could have overruled me - but it still places De Villiers in  a bad spot.   
I noticed that De Villiers have gone very quiet in speaking to th referees in the last few games and I feel that he is getting very itchy about the "two" captains scenario.   This is not the first time Matfield caused serious problems in the team insofar as captaincy is concerned - he tried it against John Smit as well.   Undermining the captain is his stock in trade. 
That being the case - I think it will be in the teams interest to get rid of one of the "captains".    My own impression is that too many leaders on the field caused havoc. We have already got Vermeulen and Bismarck/Strauss amongst the forwards - but is thin on the ground in the bacline.
I would say that it is in the interest of the team that Matfield should be out.   As you stated  he is not the line out player heused to be and his physicalityis not up to standard - he lacks grunt badly.   IN the RC - he was outjumped by opposing locks a few times  and they got turnovers a few times as the result and he also fumbled a ball in the line outs.   Both created critical problems for the Springboks as it reulted insoofar as points are oncerned.   Normally the problms happen towards the end of th games.   
The team would not be weakened if he is not playing - matter of fact it will be strengthened - because they will have more strength and fire power in the tight phases of play.   With him and some of the other oldies in the team - we are not going to make any headway in the WC.       
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
11 Nov 2014, 08:25
#16
11 Nov 2014, 08:25#16

MIke, I remember reading Matfield's book where he and Fourie du Preez were having lunch with Jake WHite and there was an argument between them about Matfield telling Jake WHite that Meyer is a better coach than him.


It does confirm that Matfield, du Preez and Meyer are very close. It will not surprise me at all if Matfield is the one playing the game.


I think it was in Jake White's book, although it could have been in Matfields book where it is discussed that Matfield has a bit of an ego, liking to be the centre of attention.


It does create two issues, will Meyer drop his "tjommie" if he loses form, so far evidence suggests not as Matfield is gaining more power and say even though his performances have not really stacked up.


The second issue is if Matfield is taking over, then why is Jean still there?


Surely you only need one of them? 


And the big question is which is the lesser of two evils?


If it comes down to that I would think Matfield is the lesser evil of the two, at least he can still run the line outs, wh ereas Jean is costing us tries, and impacting the midfield selections to our detriment.


You can make up the lack of Matfield's physicality, but you can't make up for lack of penetration in the midfield, or gaps created by Jean's defensive mistakes.

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
11 Nov 2014, 08:48
#17
11 Nov 2014, 08:48#17
 IMO Etzabeth is a good player who is working his way back from serious injury. He needs to be given time. 
— END OF THREAD —

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