What is the real average age of Meyers Squad?

Just looking at Meyer's squad. One can't stop and wonder where the players are between the ages of 24 and 29. Normally the optimal age for a test players.

The players in his squad is either in their early 20's or 30's. 

The difference in age is a decade in age for each position. 

What the boks really need are more players with experience and the right age. Meyer has failed to do that over the last 3 years. 

Our squad age should on average be 27 with a minimum of 25 caps per players, but with the current squad, the age and experience is skewed. 

Here is a list of his current squad and preferred choices.

  Meyers Pick First Backup 2nd Backup 1 Beast 29 Steenkamp 33 Nyakane 25 2 Bismark 30 Strauss 28 Brits 33 3 Jannie 31 Malherbe 23 Marcel van der Merwe
23 4 Etzebeth 22 Bakkies 34 PSDT 22 5 Matfield 37 Lood 21 Lewies 22 6 Louw 29 Coetzee 23 Burger 33 7 Alberts 30 Smith 33 Mohoje 24 8 Vermeulen 28 Whiteley 26 Spies 29 9 Du Preez 32 Pienaar 30 Reinach 24 10 Steyn 30 Pollard 20 Lambie 23 11 Habana 31 Mvovo 28 Hougaard 26 12 De Villiers 33 Serfontein 21 Steyn 28 13 Jaque Fourie 32 De Allende 22 JJ 25 14 JP 28 Hendricks 26     15 Le Roux 25 Kirchener 30    

kingcorn
The starting ssuad you listed has an averag age just over 30 years of age, which is very high for any team.   There is in fact onl 6 players younger than 30 in that group- with one player younger than 25 and 6 players aged between 28 and 29 years of age Of the 6 1 player is 25 years old - 2 players are 28 and 2 players 29.   The ideal average age should be 27 to 28 = not 30 as the case is at present.
In the second coluinn of players the average age is 26,53 with 5 players below 25 and 5 playerss below 30.   The third column of 13 players has an average age of  25,92.   On the whole the age dsitributions is as follows out of the listed 43 players-
Over 30         =     16 players28-29            =      7 players25-27            =      6 players20-24            =     13 players
12 of the 13 youngsters are in the second and third columns - in other words bench and squad members.
The problem remain - there are far too many over-30 players in column 1.    Problem is that too many of those are not actrually producing the goods anymore and they should have been replaced already.      
In essense I agree with you about the prime performing age of players being between 25 and 29 - but only 13 players are in that ategory and there are only 5 of those in column 1.
The main problem started in the De Villiers years - when the players ran the show and decided on selections.   That is why Meyer inherited a rotten core of old players.  There is one thing Meyer is - he is loyal to his players and he brought in other "golen oldies" he is familiar with.    
Unlike others I think that Meyer should start with more second column players and bring in the older players from the bench.   The reason is that it in gneral means the  older players has an easier task than they carry at present. 

Thanks Mike for breaking it down further. Meyer keeps complaining that he needs fitter players but just look at their age. How can you have a team struggling to catch their breath. He really need to get his average age right.
My other biggest concern is the lack of caps. 
But then on the other hand he had nothing to start with. Pieter De Villiers never brought any good players through or development them within the bok environment. 
I just don't think we have any good players around fitting the right age bracket.

 I have taken the list in the OP. I took out all the 30 year olds and over, bar Bismarck because he is "the world's best hooker" . I also took out all the overseas players and I took out Pierre Spies and Frans Steyn who are also apparently useless and, In Steyn's case, an overseas player.

This was what is left. Feel free to fill in the gaps and win the RC and the 2015 RWC with that:

  Meyers Pick                   First Backup                         2nd Backup           
1     Beast          29           Nyakane                     25                           
2     Bismark       30            Strauss                      28                           
3     Malherbe*   23            Marcel van der Merwe   23                           
4     Etzebeth     22            PSDT  *                     22                           
5     Lood           21            Lewies                       22                           
6     Louw          29            Coetzee                     23                           
7     Mohoje        24                                           
8     Vermeulen    28            Whiteley                    26                           
9     Reinach       24                                           
10    Pollard        20            Lambie                       23                           
11    Mvovo        28            Hougaard                    26                           
12    Serfontein   21                                           
13    De Allende   22            JJ                              25                           
14    Hendricks    26                                             
15    Le Roux       25  

*long term injury at the moment, so that actually leaves us with no first backup at 3 and 4 at all.                

 . 

kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 515 RE: What is the real average age of Meyers Squad?
August 26, 2014, 14:44:07 Thanks Mike for breaking it down further. Meyer keeps complaining that he needs fitter players but just look at their age. How can you have a team struggling to catch their breath. He really need to get his average age right.
My other biggest concern is the lack of caps. 
But then on the other hand he had nothing to start with. Pieter De Villiers never brought any good players through or development them within the bok environment. 
I just don't think we have any good players around fitting the right age bracket.
Exactly and whose fault is that? HM's? He is playing the cards he is dealt with. That is why he had to bring in the players that he did. Of course he would not have got each and every one right but the odd one that he could have done different would not have made that big a difference.

 Zeromorin
The list you wrote is in fact not the list in the starting line up of Meyer.   In any event - we need to look at what players are actually in the team not a list of youngsters that spent some time in the squad.  

 Maak oop jou oë jou dom drol. I took King Corn's list and took out all that should be thrown out by some critics. In fact, I have taken out each and every one that, by your own definition should not be anywhere near the Bok team. Read the post again, or ask someone near you to explain what I have done. That is not a list that I made up. I took King Corn's list and adapted it to suit your, CleverTrevor's, needs. I just left the headings at the top, hoping that you would grasp what I was doing but to no avail.

mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8287 RE: What is the real average age of Meyers Squad?
August 26, 2014, 15:03:39

Actually Corn you make an excellent point.....the dearth in players in the 25 to 29 year old frame is remarkable. Normally I suspect 50% of your squad should be in this bracket. Is this PdV's fault or did we simply have a kink in the pipeline?

 

Moz, I think that it is a South African rugby issue. Not SARU per se, but South African rugby on the whole. Especially if you look at the list, specially addapted to serve ou CleverTrevor's wishes.

I really have sympathy for HM. Mallett started with a great team. Jake started with the best group of young players ever. PdV the real waste, started with this group in their best years. HM starts with nothing and finds only Willie and Etzebeth.

 Mozart
Meyer started off with the players he is familiar with and now sits with the dregs he briought back on that basis.   There were more than enough other options - but he keeps playing the ones he inherited from De Villiers and brought back some who left the test scene already.   
I have sypathy with him - but he needs to wake up to the need to evaluate players based oin performance and stop loading the squad with players he is familiar with without regard to performance.  
The problm in the De VIlliers years of sticking with overage players in their declining years had a domino  effect on the franchise levels as well.   Players were never in the test scene - but stick in their places on provincial level - so younger players failed to come through.   There was no growth in players coming through between 2007 and 2011 and most potential players are now overaged as well - or have lost interest. 
The hiatus has been carried on by Meyer over the last three years as well and that did not ehlp building up a reasonable team of players in the required age category.   As long as reputation and "fimiliarity" is a norm for selection - that long the hiatus will remian. .  
   

Good question Mozart. I think that its a combination of John Smit and the Victor Matfields hanging around for too long. Look how Bismark was messed around because Smit was the captain but not the best player by a country mile. In return we starting seeing more more and more younger players taking up contracts abroad. 
Up to 2009 Victor was the main lock, but Bekker pushed him really hard and probably better than him at times. What happened to Andries Bekker? The guys just turned 30 and should have been Meyer's first pick. 
Sary needs to mandate to the national coach that they need to stop selecting foreign players and only make an acception if the players is an extra ordinary talent such as Habana. 
I would lay it at the coaches feet, they far to often select their favorites. Jake white did some good stuff, but only because he coached these guys at age group. 
At national level we are simply not giving the players a fair chance. Either a union hordes the players and hardly give them any game time or coaches just pick they players they like. 
Look at the problem we have at tighthead. Surely of the 5 super rugby teams we should have some decent tightheads. 
Jannie has been played into the ground, what happened to Wiehann Herbst. He made some good progress but never got the game time. Coenie was just a waste at tighthead and that completely failed. The only tighthead that, Adriaanse who got a cap ended up being a bench player for the sharks and probably lost his chance to play for the boks.
I personally think that some players take longer to develop but at age of 26 can be just as good as a 23 year old player, if not better. This lies at the feet of the national coach and his selectors to include these players into the squad and get them use to the structures and give them something to aim for. 

 Bekker should play Super Rugby next year, we need him. play him on YET already!

 Mozart is not intnerested in younger players - his sole interest is with the 2008 players and those in teh age group above 30.   Any other players are routinely rubbished by him,.   He finds excuses for the under-performance of rpresent Springboks or simply try to ignore the fact that  they under-performed.   
Unfortunately you are correct - the main fear of the cioaches is that they may loose a match.  they are so afraid of that that they refuse to make changes to the squad.  When it does happen that players under-perform and they win a match by the skin of our teeth - they refuse to make changes as well.   
The following players has been under-par for the past year - but they still remain in contention-
Jannie du Plessis.  Victor Matfiedl (On Super 15 level),  Willem Alberts, Morrne Steyn,  Ruan Pienaar, Jacque Fourie,  Gurthro Steenkamp and Zane Kirchner.
Some of the above are one-dimesional players like Matfield (line outs), Morne Steyn (goal kicking) and Jaqgue Fourie (defense) but they are basically poor in all other facets of play.  So me make it out they are irreplaceable - but they should have eben replaced or never selected.  Some are just low work rate players.        

 @ Kingcorn"Sary (sic) needs to mandate to the national coach that they need to stop selecting foreign players and only make an acception if the players is an extra ordinary talent such as Habana. "

I don't agree. Use them as and when necessary or discard of them. All of them. No exception.

@Draad.
"Bekker should play Super Rugby next year, we need him. play him on YET already!"

If we do that, i.e. allow him to "have the easy life in Japan" and then have him return in time to make a mark for the RWC, how is it different from what SBW is doing ? At the same time people are bitching about players playing in Europe.

 Vlag, we already did it for FdP and JF. I'm not saying he is the answer, but on form and fit he is fckn good and we are a bit short on good 5's.Rather him than PSDT or Lood????Ek is seker hier is 'n park bankie wat na hom  verlang. ;-).

 I would agree that we have done it for FDP and JF but they have both put in efforts to do something from their sides as well. JF discovered that his contract had him stuffed but his extension came around, he made damn sure that he had an escape. FDP did the same. His contract had an escape from the start. Bekker knew about the situation and he made it clear from the start that he is going and will not be available until 2015 to try and fight for a spot. Is that not exploiting the system. The likes of Habana, etc take up their obligations with their clubs and play their part for the Boks as well. JPP, Kanko, etc follow a different route by trying to burn the candle in both sides. How effective that would be, in the long run, remains to be seen.

 There is sonmething that needs to be said.   All the foreign club players are above 30 years of age.  They are all in their declining years of performance.   By sticking with them  there is no recognition of performance.  
Some - like Juan Smith - got huge write-ups about their performances on club level and turn out to be inadequate.   Some are bench players for their clubs and only start when the first choice players are not available.   none of the club players have ever really distinguished themselves on test level.   In all - most of them has been bog ordinary in tests or even below par.  None of them has lived up top the standards they maintained on international level before signing theior club contracts.
The problem is they are selected on reputation - and not actually on performances.   Ther are actually only two foreign club players who are still up to standard and they are Habana and Louw.   The rest are no better and in fact poorer than locla players when it comes to acutal performances.   
The problem is that especially in the soft Japanese Club rugby environement - the player are less fit than they should eb and they are slower in speed and less effective physically than they used to be.   Bekker is a huge question mark - if he is like th othrs - he will be pretty hopeless by now.
In view of th fact that the Club players are o ver the age of expected efficiency - it is time that we forgt about them and look at the local scenario instead.   

A nice long essay but it offers no short term solution to the problem that without these "thorns in your shoe" we are stuck with one full 23 man team +1 extra player. Count them. That is the bottom line if your "logic" is applied.

The blow would of course have been softened a little bit if the following players were available:

Arno Botha
PSDT
Flip vd Merwe
Frans vd Merwe

That would increased your squad to 28, still two short from your 30 that is required for the Australasian tour.

 There is no dearth in players in their mid 20s we just have an idiot of a coach who does not select them.....helloooo how obvious is that

As obvious as JJ being the best 13 in 20 years who was going to challenge the legend of Danie Gerber.  

True, Mozart.
How could anyone have eyebrows as luxurious as Danny G ? Ludicrous of S to suggest it....the fool. What was he thinking ??  !!   

 Well JJ has been better than fourie, De Jongh, jp , jean and De allende at 13 in the tests so try again . The fact the clueless Meyer discarded him says absolutely nothing.

Hehehe ...well Becs that's pretty good. 

 its not meyers job to develop playets thats the kob of tgeir inions and themselves. test rugby is not the place rxperiment and develop youngsters. kids srent putting their hands up guys just facts ya'll