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What mistakes did the Stormers/WP make in 2013

Started by clevermike19 REPLIES449 VIEWS· 06 Jan 2014, 11:02
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Jan 2014, 11:02
#1
06 Jan 2014, 11:02#1

The Stormers ws hyped up as the team to watch in 2013 and the situation was just the opposite.   They -


*  ended up with no silverware - bar the Under 21 CC; and

*   were out of the top 6 in the Super series.


The question remains - what went wrong with the hype?   The answer is that although they claimed to be hampered by injuries - the real issue is really wih their team selection.   That really was a nightmare and I think that the problem has beeb the coach's problematic team selection.


Lets look at it objectively and especially at the choices made by Coetzee insofar as the whole Super 15  series is concerned.   The big story at the end of 2012 was the fact that the Stormers signed up Elton Jantjies and Jaco Taute for Super 15 in 2013.   That was supposed to give them backline clout and that hey would be  virtually unbeatable.   That turned out to be a disaster.


Jantjies


Jantjies showed much promise as an under 20 player - but there were serious signs of him not developing further.   There were especially in 2012 serious signs of  poor play on his part and Michell lost his patience with him - he was at times benched and even  put on the bench in some matches.   The problems as illustrated in various matches (poor ball handling and passing when under pressure, failure to make contact and serious deficiencies in defence and under high balls when under pressure) were covered up by an endless stream of praise in newspaper articles.


Coetzee bought into the hype and persuaded the Stoprmers to give Jantjies a contract for Super 15 in 2013 with a massive price tag.   It was probably the worst thing the Stormers could have done.   


Jantjies showed up all his negatives in 2013 - He was at best a poor flyhalf and his goal kicking - a strong point in the past - deserted him completely in the first Super 15 match against the Bulls.  They dared not let him kick at goal - so they had to bring in pietersen for that purpose - thereby disrupting the carefully laid out plans insofar as Taute was concerned.


He was such a poor investment that the Stormers could not wait for his contract to end - and ended up playing Van Aswegen in the matches towards the end of Super 15.  Van Aswegen is a solid flyhalf - but no game breaker.


As the contract was only for the Super 15 series - Cetzee tried to convince the Stormers Board to contract Jantjies for both Super 15 and CC series of the future.  They baulked and he was sent packing.


Taute


Taute in fact was a better "buy" than Jantjies.   He wa excellent at full bak for the Lions - but then got buggered around by moving him to center as a result of injuries to the Lions centers.   Meyer fell for the hype and selected him as center for the Springboks - but his performance were nondescript and his defence at times putrid.


Moving him to center damaged Taute's image badly and he had a lot to do to repair the damage in plying for the Stormers.    He never got a chance to do that - because of the failure of Jntjies to kick t goal and the Stormers was forced into playing Piteren at full back.  


Taute consequently had very little opportunity to find his footing in a new franchise environment.   He was given very little playing time and obviously tried to impress the powes to be.   In doing so - he made some errors - especially with line kicks and a tendency to run straight at defenders and getting tackled with ease by th first defender he encountered.   21013 was not a good year for Taute from the injury perspective.  Before he really got going in his new team environment he encountered the second serious injury and was out for the rest of the year.


Be t as it may - his contract with the Stormers was extended and he has a mountain to climb to prove that he is a top class player worthy of team selection.


Coetzee's other Selections


Instead of improving the backline performances Coetzee buggered up the whole team performance by putrid selections:-


Juan de Jongh


Never a star in attacking play  - De Jongh became a serious liability in 2013.   His defence can be equated to a sieve - with a missed tackle ratio of 28% in Super 15.    The obvious choice of playing De Allende and De Villiers as the center combination was ignored.


The Fyhalf fiasco


The failure of Jantjies caused problems and Coetzee mostly fell back to Van Aswegen with back up by the absolutely mediocre Coleman as buck up in the CC.   The whole process was seriously flawed.  


It was clear from early on in Super 15 that there was a serious bugger - up and the fact that  they ran back to Catrakilis was prove of it.   They had a very good flyhalf in Timo Swiel to fall back on - but ignored that option and carry on with mediocrity

throughout the remainder of the year.  


SUMMARY


 What will happen in 2014.   I am afraid there will not e much of an improvement in backline performances.    They let Swiel go and he flyhalf berth will be covered by Catrakills (a good player) - Van Aswegen (an above average flyhalf) and the useless and mediocre Coleman.


The no 13 position will be given to De Jongh - a proven failure over the past two years.


They will obviously get the lock selection wrong and also the loosie combination.   would go wih Etzebeth and Manual Carizza at lock - with Ruan Botha as back-up and for the loosies would pick Vermeulen, Elstatdt and Fourie as the loosie combination - with Kolisi as back-up.   The player to watch out for is Burger - he may yet be an option to consider. 


However, the clueless Coetzee will not be logical and another fiasco can be expected.               

    

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
06 Jan 2014, 15:48
#2
06 Jan 2014, 15:48#2
 you mean apart from an over reliance on their strangling defensive pattern without much thought on attack except for the occassional try from turnover ball won by their defense. I'm afraid Jake White has the same mentality and I expect to see the Sharks and Stormers playing the same Brumbies game plan this year.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Jan 2014, 17:09
#3
06 Jan 2014, 17:09#3
 hacked waaaugh you hatter comparing Jake White to the Allistair is a laugh. Please find a picture of a hatter and use it as your avatar! Bwahahhahahaha
We (Stormers) have the best Union in the Super 15 taken over by the clueless. From the executive down they are just not up to it. We  are rife with quotas and we have reached a point where one wonders whether a decent coach would accept appointment - both Mallet and Rassie walked out because of the intolerable nonsense they had to put up with.
Sides better take the Sharks seriously this year. They, like the Stormers, suffered a very bad injury run. Back luck should not strike again.
SA sides as a rule must save the rough stuff for the kiwis and ozzies. You just have to put two SA sides on the park and it tends to be mayhem. Rather save it all up for the down under oaks I say.


HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
07 Jan 2014, 08:52
#4
07 Jan 2014, 08:52#4
 I only speak hard cold facts Beanhead
ABs are ranked Number 1 on the IRB rating scale - FACTABs first professional International Rugby Team to win every Test in a year - FACTABs are Rugby Championship winners - FACTABs are Bledisloe Cup winners - FACTChiefs are S15 Champions 2012 and 2013 - FACTStormers aim to win the 2013 Championship based on their defense to force the opposition into mistakes from which they aim to capitalise failed - FACTSaint Richie is the Number 1 Flanker in the world - FACT and he is not a bad Number 8 either - FACT.Hakwa is McCaw...........

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 Jan 2014, 10:56
#5
07 Jan 2014, 10:56#5
Hakwa: brilliant analysis as usual. However, On the Stormers, I think their fans have harbored some hope because of the "sheep & bale" training techniques their innovative coach has employed. There was a story from a credible source about him using butterflies also so you can see why fans such as Beeno are excited. Yes the Stormers are on the march, I am sure they know to where, lol
The kiwi muttered: "I thought the sheep beat the Stormers 10-0"

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Jan 2014, 11:12
#6
07 Jan 2014, 11:12#6

Hakwa


Please stop bragging about the AB 's - this thread is about the Super 15 and specifically about the big-mouth Stormers.  I really was a dig at Beeno - the biggest Stormers supporter on this site,

 

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
07 Jan 2014, 12:48
#7
07 Jan 2014, 12:48#7
 Mike, me brag? Never! er Sorry Mike, must dash off - Stevie and Fossie have some new drills me and the boys have to run through 
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
07 Jan 2014, 15:34
#8
07 Jan 2014, 15:34#8
*Cough* he hem!
I would state that only the chiefs have bragging rights, they basically scraped through in the last couple of finals and that was only due to the fact that they had an advantage over travel fatigued teams. Wayne smith have been the massive difference to the team and they way he has improved their overall play. Don't forget in 2011 the pretty much were at the bottom of the table and all of a sudden they get an all black assistant coach and surprise surprise Money bill Williams.  
2012 the Sharks had to come from 6th place, had a play-off game against Reds, beat them, flew to Cape Town and beat the Stormers and the had to go all the way to the arse end of the world. The brumbies had to do the same thing. 
If it was a neutral venue with same travel time I think it would have been a different story.
I expect the chiefs to be dethroned this year. Major Contenders will be Crusaders, Brumbies and Sharks. 

MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
07 Jan 2014, 15:39
#9
07 Jan 2014, 15:39#9
"you mean apart from an over reliance on their strangling defensive pattern without much thought on attack except for the occassional try from turnover ball won by their defense."

i couldnt agree more with hakwa sans comments (except him being McCaw).
the defensive structures which have made the stormers a force to be reckoned with the last few years, was less effective in 2013 as teams know what to expect and can counter accordingly. the top tier teams can do this the best.

coetzees heavy reliance on defense has been very detrimental on the stormers attack who boast a backline which is as good as the best out there.
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
07 Jan 2014, 15:41
#10
07 Jan 2014, 15:41#10
As for the Stormers, I'm not holding my breath, I'm expecting the same borring rubish that they have been playing under Coetzee. They are missing some world class players and will struggle going forward. 
Pack is solid, but that is due to Proudfoot, Defence is rock solid and that is Nienabaars work. 
Backline will misfire again due to Robbie Rubbish Fleck and the team selections will be poor again, thanks to midget coetzee tendency to select players no taller than 1.70cm.
The backline is missing a world class winger in Habana, De Villiers will do the job at 12 but will have to carry the rest of team. Aplon is only an opportunistic player and expect Kolbe to be expose at this level. Plus then we have the Cat, that tends to be flyhalf that likes to sit in the pocket not to mention injury prone van as wagen and the ever reliable Curt Coleman. Van der Heever has also packed his bags as he has been fed up of having to sit on the bench for so long while he has to watch lessor players take up his spot. 
Not sure how Taute will play and where he will play.
So the stormer should be in the top 8 but with the bulls being so week this year, cheetahs to hold their own and the sharks to be on top of the SA conference. Not sure what the lions will dish up. So it will be a respectable second place for the Stormers in the SA conference with maybe a top 8 finish but missing the play-offs again this year. 
 
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
07 Jan 2014, 15:57
#11
07 Jan 2014, 15:57#11
my stormers team,,,

1 s kitshoff, 2 d fourie, 3 f malherbe

4 lady elizabeth, 5 d steenkamp

6 s kolisi, 7 s burger, 8 d vermeulen

9 n groom, 10 p grant

12 JDV, 13 d de allende

11 c kolbe, 15 j taute, 14 g aplon

16 t liebenberg, 17 p cilliers, 18 b harris, 19 r botha, 20 r elsdat, 21 l shreuder, 22 d caterkilis, 23 j de jong

pretty mean team, hopefully injury dosent hit them hard, but plenty of class and potential to make it all the way to the finals, the real lead weight seems to be coetzee and i cant help wondering how many chances hes got left,
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
07 Jan 2014, 21:52
#12
07 Jan 2014, 21:52#12
 Sas, now and again you come up with some sense. This is one of those times. I can't fault that selection too much, but I rather suspect De Allende on wing when not at 12. I hope to see more of Howard at 13. Him and de Allende might be the future centre pairing for the Boks.Won't  be surprised if Fourie plays more 6 than 2 AND although Eben is out for more than half the season, I suspect we will get by in the meantime. 

GO STORMERS! !!!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Jan 2014, 22:49
#13
07 Jan 2014, 22:49#13

Ddraad


I made a posting a while ago after a chat with Frans Majherbe's father.   Frans and Etzebeth are very good friends and he would know the inside story.   Anyway the news I got is that Etzebeth;s injury was not as serious as originally thought and he would be back at the end of January - so Etzebeth will be back for the start of super 15.   When Frans was injured I had t he news about his return for WP about three weeks in advance and he was very accurate on that one - so I have reason to believe that this is also reliable.   

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Jan 2014, 22:51
#14
07 Jan 2014, 22:51#14
Liebeberg is our top hooker by some way. Deon at 6 is a must and if Burger regains form he will be at 7.  The argie lock will feature with Steenkamp or Ruan Botha etc.backline Groom, Grant, Howard, Jean Allende, Aplon, Taute. Taute hopeully will regain his form at 15.
Depending on injuries and how active bent refs Stormers c ould make top 6
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
07 Jan 2014, 23:00
#15
07 Jan 2014, 23:00#15
@mikey,

thats good news regarding lady elizabeth, as he will be a popular choice for the fantasy rugby fantics.

the intial media release had lady elizabeth out for almost 5 months and that would have been a pain in the butt, but now i can have the lady elizabeth, retallick locking combo like i wanted all along,
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
07 Jan 2014, 23:08
#16
07 Jan 2014, 23:08#16
@beeno1 aka storminged,

having fourie and kolisi on at the same time is better then having liebenberg and fourie on at the same time.

dont know why people keep bagging deon fouries hooking skills, cos IMO they are the goods for spXV level.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Jan 2014, 06:41
#17
08 Jan 2014, 06:41#17

Sasue


Forget about Jaws - he is weak as a lock.   My combo in Super 15 will be Etzebeth and Du Toit with De Jager on the bench.   Jaws will be over-priced in any event.   Hope Luatua is listed as a loosie this year.      

GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
08 Jan 2014, 11:19
#18
08 Jan 2014, 11:19#18

Stormers made no mistakes...the mistake was the coach selections and perhaps the game plans. All revolved basically around the crucial issue of the number 10...

 

Substituting "Silky Hands" and sending the Cat to the Kings was a glaring error...not to mention Peter Grant going off to Japan and Swiel twiddling his thumps and no games.

 

This key issue caused the side as a unit to be unsettled...at sixes and sevens and an overall unsettling effect on the whole team/squad.

 

There is something lacking in AC's skills...if the Stormers had an innovator type coach like Jake White this year a lot of the crap would be blown out imo.

MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
08 Jan 2014, 11:23
#19
08 Jan 2014, 11:23#19
@cloudzter,

please lady cloudy, ur making me blush with ur lavish compliments,

i dont think u need any help with selections as have greta knowledge urself with a season of fantasy underneath ur belt, but i will always be there to lend a hand should u need it and be glad to do so,

hoot hoot,
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
08 Jan 2014, 11:30
#20
08 Jan 2014, 11:30#20
@mikey,

crap, i forgot about de jager, he was one of my main guys last year, but if i remember correctly, his fantasy form slided a little towards the end of the season??? could be wrong though.

good call on luatua, he would also be another must pick, the problem with him at flanker is there are plenty of good flankers out there who score decent points on a consistent basis like luatua, one reason luatua was so popular was because loosies generally score more then the locks, i found this to be true in both test rugby and foxsport.

if luatua is regarded as a lock though, then i will be definitely selecting him and lady elizabeth as my opening lock pairing, with retallick and dutoit to sit on the bench depending on who has the weaker opponent.

hmmm my star trek data like logic approach towards fantasy rugby, has me earmarked to be an alpha level threat,
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