What really happened today with the Sprinboks

The first was the substitutes playing well off the bench making an immediate impact, then shortly after many of the remaining starting players suddenly were in form. Adrian Strauss, Delande, Jantjies improved as the game went onwards- and this seemed to motivate everyone. 

It is clear that certain players who started today must be dropped- and are not test standard. 
If the finishing team had been the starting team- the scoreboard would have been different.  
1. Vermeulen- a spent force. Let him earn his pension at Toulon. They are paying big bucks for his past reputation. 
2. Kolisi- he is not a test standard loose forward. Too small for seven, and no effect at the ruck to play six, and not enough skills to play 8. He is just interested in making a few carries. His work rate is far too low for a loose forward. 
3. Malherbe does not seem to understand the rules of rugby. He is out of form- and maybe he will improve- but drop him for now.
4. Mmvovo. The Irish were targeting his wing. Combrink made an immediate impact. He added some firepower out wide. Given his age it could be the end of the line. A good runner ball in hand- but he does not seem to understand defensive strategies. Although he could be a useful bench player. 
---Players than enhanced their reputations. 
Steph du Toit- He was moved to seven to make a place for Mostert- and was much more effective than Kolisi. This added some more power to the pack.
Warren Whitely must be the starting number 8. His work rate is phenomenal and we need him on the pitch. The ruck play improved when he came on. 
where is Jaco Kriel?This should be the starting back row.
Whitely- 8Steph Dutout/ flou - 7Jaco Kriel- 6

 I think the altitude played a role in the comeback.

Ninety percent the altitude. The Irish played with huge emotion and were totally out of gas the last 10 minutes.  

All of this does suggest it was more the players fault than the coaches. Coetzee will enjoy his nights rest today and wake up tomorrow looking forward to the last match

Congratulations to South Africa a great 2nd half come back, it's quite true Ireland were spent the last 10 mins. A game of two halves really but well done. 

 Thanks Mo, nice to hear from you. Ireland hit the Joburg wall.....sets up a fun finale next week. 

What happened was that enough form players were given enough game time. Simple as that. Mallet made reference to this immediately. So did everyone else in studio. It's not rocket science. But there will still be some on here who think that Duane should start ahead of Whiteley and that Jantjies, Faf, Combrink and Mostert are not test quality. Well if they are not test quality than nobody else on the field today is even close to test standard either. Our best strategy is to build a team around that core of confident and performing Lions players. For both the short and long term us makes sense. We do ultimately want to play that style of rugby right? So if it'll help us win games now as well as moving us ahead in the long run then there is no other option really. Man, how good is Combrink!!!???

Thanks, Mo. At half time, I thought Ireland had the game and test series in the bag. I did not have a hope in hell of the Boks winning. Maybe altitude helped the Boks more than I want to admit!

  

I tend to agree with SB.   There n fact four problem areas in the team,  namely –

*   on the wing,

*   the flyhalf, 

*   the loosie combination;  and

*   the props,

On the wing

JP Pietersen did squat of value today – same as last week.  Mvovo was by some distance the worst player in the team,   He is definitely a liability for any team.   I think we have a serious problem on the wing with better players available.   I would say that Combrinck is a must as a starter next week.    I think it is time to start considering an alternative to Pietersen as well.   Maybe we should look at a number of other players fom the Super series as an alternative.

Jantjies at flyhalf

I think Jantjies was iffy today and do not think he is test material,   He now had to tests in a row where he showed zero positive and that is why I would not see him as a flyhalf of the future.   Please note that  the Springboks scored four tries today – none of which he had a hand in.   Matter of fact they scored the tries despite Janthies at flyhalf.   I hope Lambie is back next week and unfortunaely the other real option – Goosen – is in the Top 14 final next week – so he assumedly is not available. 

The loosie combination

I am afraid it is time to send Vermeuen and Louw back to their clubs and Kolisi back to th Stormers to occupy the bench for the Stormers – they were not even doing the basic loosie requirements and was totally useless in giving away ball possession and defense is not their strong suit – while they are totally inept in ball protection and recovery.   I would replace them with proper loosies like Whieley, Kriel and Labuschagne.   Just one question - how come the locks turn up at breakdown points quicker than the loosies? 

The props

I was disappointed in the Springbok props and especially Malherbe – he is seriously out of form.  The others were not much better.   Strauss was also substandard.   I think they must get Marx and Akker va der Merwe on board.

I was disappointed with other players as well , especially in the first half.   They played typical stampkar rugby and was very poor in that.   This kind of rugby is and remains losing rugby and the sooner the Springboks started to play more comprehensive rugby in the second half the whole game changed and became more comprehensive and faster.   That should teach everyone that we need to play more comprehensive rugby if we want to win anything.  

  

Remind me again, who did you pick to win?

 My Superbru selection was a Springbok win.   It was a miracle they in fact won.  With the players I criticized above stayed any longer on the field of play and if the Springboks continued to play stampkar rugby  - they would have lost.   

 Congrats to the Boks but let's not forget how badly they played in the first half, it was painful. Looked like the players were really beginning to lose confidence & it kept getting worse. A combination of the bench players playing really well & lifting the team & the fatigue of the Irish resulted in a major turnaround. Thank goodness!!

Again. Mike Jantjies is doing it for the Lions and will do it for the Boks. Until Lambie performs to the same level that Jantjies performs at in S18, week in week out for the Lions, he deserves no more than to be the Lion's man's understudy. Unless we pick Lambie on reputation. Also, do we want to go into a pressure game next weekend with a 10 who has hardly any game to me with the new team. It's pretty obvious that it would be a horrible call to go that way. So even if Lambie is better than Jantjies, which I don't think he is, you'd still logically have to go with a 9 - 10 combo that know each other and have two games under the belt with the current team. This talk about "test quality" makes no sense to me. If your "test quality" is not doing much for you at club level then it's not gonna do much more for you at Test level. Strauss, Duane, Eben etc etc are evidence of this. For my money, if you are playing poorly at club level then you don't get called up. It you have performed well for a prolonged period then you deserve a go. That is what happened today and it worked. Does anyone here think that that if the team that started the second half started the first half it would have been as close? If you do then we did not watch the same game. Sorry.

 ou maaaikie Strauss had a very strong second half. Redlinghuys is a better scrummager and must start. Akkers must be on the bench as reserve hooker.
Du Toit moves to with Mostert at lock.Kriel comes in at 6 with Whitely and Du Toit completing the Loose trio.Beast, Strauss, RedlinghuysEben, MostertKriel, Whitely and Du Toit.
By default Elton gets another shot.So backline is 
Faf, Elton, Allende, Mapoe, Combrink and Willie. Need another  wing. To me its Van Wyk or Ulengo. JP is too slow.
Reserves:Kitshoff (Huge work rate and mobility) Akkers, Malherbe/Van der Merwe.
Snyman, Du PreezRoss Cronje, Boschoff (LIONS players to keep the Lions style going)  Jessie Kriel Centre and 15)

We need to adopt the playing style of the second half which was LIONS STYLE. As more Lions players came on this style took over and all the players looked better.
I wonder if ou Alistair had any clue as to just what happened. Time will tell.
It was great to see the Boks throw off the shackles imposed by coaches and rip the irish one.The idea that the altitude was a big factor is questionable as how many SA players in the starting 15 were not coastal players.
If Alistair has learnt the right lessons we should win the series.   

 The Lions squad is not necessarily the best squad talent wise in the SA Conference but their skill levels and strategy and attitude are miles ahead. 
Akkerman and co deserve the praise for this win against the Irish as it was the Lions players who inspired the win. 
Akkerman and his team to coach the Boks.

 MO(NH) Hard luck Ireland, I thought your warriors were gallant in defeat.
As for the Boks, Coetzee has to be congratulated for getting the Boks over the line although there's still lots to be done before we see a Bok team as solid as the rock of Gibralter. I trust he's smart enough to identify the weak links and that he'll boot them from the squad. Has to be said that Whitel y should be Captain, it was only my "buddy" Rooinek and yours truly who picked him before the series started. Hope Coetzee is on the same page.

 Rubbish dense denise. I had Whitely at 8 in my selections. 
That you and ou rooitwit got it right is simply random chance! Bwahhahahahahahaha

Uh Denny? I said the moment Strauss picked at skipper that Whiteley should be captain and Strauss didn't even deserve a call-up based on current form. Those against the idea said Whiteley was too green blah blah blah. And yes, Beeno had Whiteley down too. I think CC may also have. Regardless, you did pick Whiteley too and I shall thus deliver a pat to thee back.

I guess we will never hear the end of ou dense densie getting it right for once - simply because he followed Beeno and others. Hahahahahahhahahaha

Willie was useless today. One out of a hundred of his tricks worked setting Combrink up. In fact if there isn't space for Combrink on wing then swap Willie out and put him at 15.
Mvovo must be replaced asap, heck put any other quota in his place - they can not be worst. Pietersen is just to slow as a wing and seems to complacent at times.
Centers was mediocre at best, De Allande is still far of his best, maybe the try will give him some confidence in the next game. 
Elton, can not kick. Not even at his home  ground! If he is flyhalf then we need another kicker in the team. Period.

Faf, great performance. Not the best tactical kicks but I hope he will improve.
The loose trio - uninspiring. Thor didn't pitch up, Flow only featured after the Irish was tired and Kolisi lost the ball how many times? Unacceptable. I do no think PSdT must play 7 but having his work rate and Mostert's had a definite impact. Whitely was great, why isn't he starting? Kriel will kick Flo's ass why is he watching the game and not playing.
Locks were great.
Front row - I would love to see Strauss dropped for Marx or Akker, drop Malherbe and give Beast a run from the bench. Bring Kitshof in and let Nyakane start perhaps.
It seems that the Irish got tired after 60 minutes, maybe a bit of complacency sat set in at 60 minutes and they didn't have enough gas in the tank to rectify it.
Did we deserve to win? I still have the sour taste of the 1st half in my mouth where we kicked the ball away, made stupid errors and where it looked like most players where just going through the motions not really wanting to play.

Chewbacca - their is a huge difference between what was played - the first half the Springboks played STAMPKAR rugby and in the seond half an all-round game.

I agree Mike, just not sure if Coetzee will be able to replicate what we had in the 2nd half for the 3rd test. 
The simple question is, will his starting team for the 3rd test be the team that ended in the 2nd half?

 Nope, it won't,  too many whitey's

 DbDraad

" Nope, it won't,  too many whitey's"

Eggzackerley ............ Combrinck on the wing means 2 POC ( JP & Mapoe ) in the backline, add Beast & Kolisi for a paltry total of only four representatives for all the peoples previously disadvantaged by the bad honkies ...... then there are all you fellas wanting to see Kolisi jettisoned ........... unless his replacement's Notshe it aint gonna happen .

Go Iceland!

 Plum...Apologies, I missed your post, honestly did not see it, take your word that you did tip Whiteley as Captain.

 I am unhappy about the new idea to put a lock at no 7.   It never worked out in the past and will never work out in future,  Because Du Toit is mobile - does not make him a 7.   Beside that - I do not like 105 kgs locks on international level.     

What really happened? Here is my account:
Although the Boks looked better from the start of the second half they didn't get points until the 56.05 min mark. They wer e still making errors including a penalty against the sub at tight head, a knock on by Jantjies and missed tackles by de Allende. So, it took a while for the better effort of the Boks to show on the scoreboard. 
The Irish kicked the ball down to half way, Combrind took a quick throw to Willie, Willie with a long run & back to Combrind who scored running over Irish defender Jackson. Score was 10 v 19 Ireland at the 58 min mark.
Irish struck back with a try at 60 min mark. Score 10 v 26 Ireland.
63 min mark Whiteley scores off some good running by backs & forwards (including JP on the inside). Combrind made a very good run that helped spark the try. He installed confidence on the wing. De Allende started running with low body position & started making forward progress so the center position was stronger. Score 15 v 26 Ireland. Jantjies missed the conversion.

On the next series Boks kicked down field & play in Irish half. Whiteley first receiver & good progress in backs. Kolisi subed at the 67 min mark, de Toit to 7. Estzabeth wins lineout but Ireland won turnover, scrum. Scrum penalty to Boks, faf taps & goes. de Toit scores under the post. 20 v 26 at the 69 min mark. Kick is good score 22 v 26 at the 71 min mark.
Some good phases by boks 11 phases until de Allende breaks the line with low body position & scores. 27 v 26 at the 75.21 min mark. Ireland had a man down in back play. Conversion good 29 v 26 at 76.13 min mark.
Ireland knocked the ball on on the ensuing kickoff. From the half way, de Allende another good run from first receiver. Penalty to Boks. Kick good 32 v 26 final score.
A key point in the game was the try of Combrind which was brilliant, he took the quick throw in to Willie & Willie had space to run down the right side of the field, he passed back to Combrind who scored. Ireland were caught napping, maybe signs of fatigue. 
Boks had 70% of possession in the second half & played mainly at Ireland's end of the field (they were not doing this in the first half).
De Allende started running with lower body position & got the backline moving forward from the center position. Combrind installed confidence on the wing & worked well with Willie. Ireland were not stripping the ball anymore.

 I like your back row, Shark!
In fact I like it a lot.
Kriel, Whiteley and PSDT.
Mostert was incredible when he came on. 
The entire attitude changed when these boys came on.
Still think that Strauss needs to be replaced altogether.
Marx and Marutlulle would be massif improvements on him.  

 I updated my post with details of what really happened IMO .

 The first was the substitutes playing well off the bench making an immediate impact, then shortly after many of the remaining starting players suddenly were in form.


That is the point. As by miracle, players who had shown themselves as error prone no longer showed that way.
Their tendency to make mistakes can not be explained by the supposed lack of partners as it is done by some willing to sidetrack from the problem. Players are able to succeed in various actions, no matter who is in the team.

No matter who is at the wing, when you receive a pass at center, without being pressed, you can catch it or drop it on purpose. The guy on the wing has no influence in that.

A large bunch of SA players went on strike during one game and a half, prefering to ruin the chances to victory rather than playing with players they did not want to play with.

As soon as the players were eliminated, as a sent message, they no longer gave away penalties, turn overs as it was Christmas day Forcing their selection choices on Coetze.

A very telling attitude and an unprofessional one by excellence.

The irish squad, that was superior but prefered to manage the score, got caught by this behaviour. Before they realized, it was too late.

The next selection and test will confirm that.

Trad, your statement 
"A large bunch of SA players went on strike during one game and a half, prefering to ruin the chances to victory rather than playing with players they did not want to play with".
Sounds like pure speculation. The ABs always do better in the last 20-30 minutes & I can assure you they are playing their best for the time before that.

In the case of this Bok game, it was partly a tiring Irish team & partly the fresh bench players coming in that accounts for the improvement. You will notice that the errors continued for the rest of the game & that the Boks didn't  score until close to the 60 minute mark. Bok replacements started coming on from the 40 minute mark. 

JW haha trying to make sense of Traditionalist's brain farting.

 I'm bored Plum & the forum is not exactly buzzing at the moment.
As Trad is into conspiracy theories I recommended he check with Beeno

To many 'entitled' players in both SA and SA A teams. SA A were doing really well until they brought on the likes of Carr who severely stop any chances of SA A team recording a win. It showed what Johan Akerman can do and for the first 50 min I was even thinking that Akermans A team would beat Coetzee Entitled boks. 
If I had to take the best of both teams it would as follows

1. Trevor 
   
2. Marx 
   
3. Redelinghuys 
   
4. Etzebeth
   
5. Mostert
   
6. Kriel
7. PSDT
8. Whiteley
9. Faf
10. Jantjies
11. Sergeal Petersen
    
12. De Allende
13. Francois Venter
    
14. Combrink
15. Jessie Kriel (Played his best for the bulls at 15)
16. Bismark
17. Du Toit
18. Marcel vd Merwe
19. RG Snyman
    
20. Vermeulen
21. Piet Van Zyl
22. Morne Steyn (No Flyhalfs)
23. Mapoe

If you look at our current wing and fullback stocks, not much to choose from. There are only 2 that I would consider for the boks. Combrink and Sergeal. Pity that Senatla has been focussing on the 7's. The only other fullback I can think of 

Latest news on injuries doesn't look good. Link

 The difference was Willie Le Roux.

That silky run of his to set up Combrind's try was so good to watch.