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FORUM / RUGBY /  What to do with Pollard

What to do with Pollard

Started by Mozart67 REPLIES845 VIEWS· 17 Aug 2014, 21:41
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Aug 2014, 21:41
#1
17 Aug 2014, 21:41#1

That was, let's face it, a bit of a disaster. There was pretty much complete concensus that Morne should come on...a huge turnaround from all the excitement about Pollard's selection. So what happens now?

 

 

The first thing to note is he tackled quite nicely and was in the process of making a dangerous break when he was stripped of the ball. For the most part it was a question of over cooking his kicks. That was adrenalin, young golfers are also prone to knocking balls too far when the pressure mounts. His handling was fine. And he made some nice place kicks.

 

Still it's a big call to start him in Argentina, or  Oz/NZ he is probably not ready. So play him off the bench next week. Then send him back for CC duty during the Australian leg....with the intent of playing him off the bench back in RSA and perhaps starting him again on the YE tour.

 

It would be a mistake to discard him, but also a mistake to put too much pressure on at this stage.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
17 Aug 2014, 22:00
#2
17 Aug 2014, 22:00#2
 Pollard was fine and morne was his useless self when he came on. I'd like you to point out at what stages of the game there was an issue with pollards game that was any different to any of the likes of Jean, De allende and co in those conditions and what exactly useless Morne did to improve things.
It's just the biggest load of shit that morne improved things - and if he did kindly point out when and how
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
17 Aug 2014, 22:08
#3
17 Aug 2014, 22:08#3
I think he should be given a few more chances to start. The World cup is just over a year from now, and he needs to get the experience to be the starting 10 for the Boks
He was good against Scotland, and the conditions were not great vs Argentina. It has been a long while since we have had a flyhalf that plays the ball on the advantage line, the backline looks much better. Jean was varying his distance and angles, it is just a pity that the weather was so bad. 
Moaning Steyn was brought on to improve the kicking game, and he was also poor. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
17 Aug 2014, 22:11
#4
17 Aug 2014, 22:11#4
 The conditions were shit pollard was fine in the circumstances and morne did fuck all to improve things other than die with the ball in hand 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Aug 2014, 22:15
#5
17 Aug 2014, 22:15#5
 Mozart 
The only concensus about Morne coming on was yours - not anybody else.  Problem is that Morne was so poor that anybody would have been better than him.  Poor decisionmaking and then the ultimate disaster - a kick charged down that nearly cost us the match.  
Do you really want to start with the Stade Francais Reject - did you not see with your own eyes why Stade Francais does not start with him.   In any event he was not better than Pollard - fact is he was a lot worse.   
Just go and have a look at minutes 56-57 - when we recovered a ball from a breakdown.  There was a massive overlap (5 Springboks as against 3 Puma defenders) and what did Morne do?   He kicked one of the worst kicks kicked during the whole game. 
Morne is a matchloser par excellence - he nearly got yesterdays one lost too.    If we really want to lose the game on Saturday in Argentina - pick the useless in Tght 5 play Matfield and the Stade Francais Reject.   Bakkies produced near to nothing on Saturday - Matfield will produce less.          
Flashdakota
FlashdakotaClub Pro805 posts
17 Aug 2014, 22:34
#6
17 Aug 2014, 22:34#6
This shouldn't even be a debate.
Typical SAFFA style...
We ALL raved about him and wanted him in the side.
He had 1 very good game and 1 not so good game (in appalling conditions) for the Boks.

Are any of you doubting his sublime quality after Saturday?
If so, then get your heads checked. Dan Carter would have struggled in those conditions.

We have one of the most prodigious talents at our disposal. Let him make mistakes... let him learn from them.

Believe me, DC also overcooked a few kicks when he was 20 years old.


Flashdakota
FlashdakotaClub Pro805 posts
17 Aug 2014, 22:36
#7
17 Aug 2014, 22:36#7
LOL clevermikes constant referral to the "Stade Francais Reject" kills me from laughter each time.


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
17 Aug 2014, 23:02
#8
17 Aug 2014, 23:02#8
 Mike you are spot on morne was useless - the charge down and that overlap you mention when useless Morne kicked the ball away and the crowd booed him for his pathetic efforts.
Morne is always useless that will never change.  Only an idiot would select such an ordinary player as your pivot....its lying choosing dry pasta over a lamb bhuna
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
17 Aug 2014, 23:20
#9
17 Aug 2014, 23:20#9
This was always going to be a tougher game than the Scots and conditions were poor. He had some jitters, but that's ok and to be expected. That first conversion though was sublime, it shows temperament and skill and on a dry pitch that half-break of his could have opened up the defense.

If I was the coach I'd back him at least for the next Argentina game, but then I know too little about these things to gauge the extent to which a bench position now may influence his confidence. Maybe it won't at all, maybe there was already an understanding before the tournament about which games he'd start. We don't know. I say give him another start. Who knows when he may have to come on in a pressure situation against NZ or Oz. You don't want him raw and lacking match time.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
17 Aug 2014, 23:25
#10
17 Aug 2014, 23:25#10
 The only chance we have of challenging the kiwis and aussies is if morne is nowhere near the side
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
17 Aug 2014, 23:28
#11
17 Aug 2014, 23:28#11
 I would not say that Pollard was a disaster. This was a very difficult game to pinpoint because of so many things that turned the game on its head. There was even a question about the Boks not being able to "change" their game plan.

Whether a few around here like it or not, Alberts' injury at the eleventh hour already asked for a quick change around in the planning for this game. Before the usual suspects get their knickers in a knot, there is something to remember. It is quite often said that Alberts normally comes to the party in NH conditions. Well, what do you know. Does that not mean that the conditions of yesterday would have suited him perfectly?

The Boks did, initially plan to play a total different game but the had to change that at short notice due to the weather.

I know that my old friend would crap himself right about the time when he reads my next sentence. HM did make one mistake. When it became clear that the weather was going to be atrocious, he should have started with Morne. Whether the usual suspect want to believe it or not and no matter how many times the charged down kicked is revisited, they needed his calmness at the start of the game. I can only think that HM was hesitant to make another change to the team, given that  he already had to make the switch with Alberts' injury. I can only suspect that he was planning to start with Alberts and bring on Coetzee later in the game. In the end Coetzee had to play 80 minutes and Thebogo was not used at all. He was only there for back-up in case push came to shove.

My gut feeling is that, had it not been for the weather, this would still have been a good platform to get Pollard going. Starting him at this stage is, IMO, the only issue. Do you want them to settle in with Morne and then bring him in, or do you start him and then bring on Morne? Unfortunately for the usual suspects our fly halves for the near future will Morne and Pollard unless either of them gets injured.

Just to substantiate my remark about the change of tactic:

Pretoria - Contrary to the expected dry conditions on the Highveld, the Springboks had to adapt to hail and torrential rain in their narrow 13-6 Rugby Championship opener against Argentina in Pretoria on Saturday.

As it happened: Boks v Pumas

"We really wanted to play exciting rugby. We picked an exciting backline as we thought we would have an open, running game on the Highveld," Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer said after the nail-biting match.

"I am very proud of the team. That game could have gone either way. A lot of the Argentineans play in Europe, where they are used to the conditions, and they forced us into a kicking battle."

Shortly before the start of the Test, the gathering dark clouds burst open above Loftus Versfeld and made playing conditions extremely difficult.

The Boks scored the only try of the match shortly after the kickoff, courtesy of scrumhalf Ruan Pienaar, which gave them a crucial advantage.

It was, however, a brave defensive effort by South Africa which led to their victory over the spirited South Americans.

Meyer said that while the weather forecast showed an increased chance of showers ahead of the kickoff, it was extremely difficult to make alternative plans at the eleventh hour.

"The great thing about this team is that they can adapt. Later in the day, there was a 40 percent chance of rain and we started talking about changing the game," he said.

"It is very difficult to change the game plan 10 minutes before the start, because your whole mindset is attack.

"The team I picked was a ball-in-hand type of team and the mindset was to just go out and play and, when you play at home in a game like this, you are under more pressure."



Sending Pollard back to CC is debatable. I do not thank that is the way to go. I think that could well put a big dent in his confidence. Remember that he is, after all, only twenty years old, albeit a very mature twenty years.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
17 Aug 2014, 23:46
#12
17 Aug 2014, 23:46#12
 Vlagshit what part of morne not be near the Bok side do you not comprehend? Geez have you still not woken up to the fact that morne is bloody useless
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
17 Aug 2014, 23:56
#13
17 Aug 2014, 23:56#13
Your problem, ou Safesex, that there is no medication for your condition.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
18 Aug 2014, 00:06
#14
18 Aug 2014, 00:06#14
 The conditions our players faced yesterday aren't as similar to NH as you think. Loftus has a hard sun baked pitch where the rain has no chance of being absorbed by the pitch, this makes things such as the bounce of the ball and keeping your footing so much more difficult than even in the NH. Yesterday was no barometer for the players, completely disregard it as there are too many anomalies to take into context.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Aug 2014, 01:00
#15
18 Aug 2014, 01:00#15
Well I'm not sure about Pollard starting in Argentina...I think the Argies have the belief they can win. It's going to be a tough ride for a 20 year old flyhalf. Starting him may be doing him no favours. Flyhalf with the usual kicking duties is the toughest position for a young player. What other 20 year old starting 10s are there.....even a talent like Carter was started at 12. 
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
18 Aug 2014, 01:03
#16
18 Aug 2014, 01:03#16

 Correct me if I'm wrong but I have the distinct impression that Pollard has no left foot.

A couple of times I thought it would be much easier to kick with it but he seemed to shy away from using it.

If that's the case he will never be a top international flyhalf and should be sent back to the drawing board until he learns! 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
18 Aug 2014, 01:17
#17
18 Aug 2014, 01:17#17
Moola many kickers only kick with one foot. Naas Botha is one of the few that could kick very well of both feet. Naas is probably the only flyhalf who kicked drop goals of both his feet in tests.
Carlos Spencer patented the banana kick which is kicking along the touchline when your kicking leg is on the side of the touchline. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Aug 2014, 02:00
#18
18 Aug 2014, 02:00#18
 Mozart
As Jannie was - one scruim against many and you run wild.  What ajoke you are.
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
18 Aug 2014, 03:44
#19
18 Aug 2014, 03:44#19

 Sharkbok, I realise lots of flyhalves only kick with one foot but the very top players are able to use both feet a la Carter and Cruden.

Pollard needs to gain this skill as opposition players will target his good side and force him to use his left foot in pressure situations.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
18 Aug 2014, 03:55
#20
18 Aug 2014, 03:55#20
 Well vlagshit at least I am not a fucking useless conservative Dutchman who thinks morne is a good rugby player.
Let me guess you also interpreted the bible to conclude that black people were inferior like your boe r clan did
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
18 Aug 2014, 10:12
#21
18 Aug 2014, 10:12#21

You sure have some deep seated hatred there SafeSex

 

Don't even bother denying it or making it poster specific, cause it isn't

 

Just the amount of times you bring it up shows you have major issues with Afrikaans or Afrikaans speaking people

 

Stop with all this political crap  

TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
18 Aug 2014, 11:44
#22
18 Aug 2014, 11:44#22
 And that from the person who said Trevor Nyakane should be selected, not because he was good, but because he was black (fitted the quota system).

The person who generalises based on language people speak, therefore the continuous "dutchman" reference.

The person who loves to place people in boxes based on nothing but prejudice.

And once he has no argument, everyone else is "racist"... Sounds familiar?
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
18 Aug 2014, 12:12
#23
18 Aug 2014, 12:12#23

Simple really ... you start him again ... and again ... and again ... every match in this year' RC.

Give him a decent shot.

Only a fool would bench the lad after one match and rob him of his confidence.

Wake up Faggot!!

You should really start thinking about posting on another subject ... rugby's not a strong point of yours.

DumbASS!!

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
18 Aug 2014, 12:47
#24
18 Aug 2014, 12:47#24

I agree CC

 

Start him as many times as possible, but when the opponent and time allows.

 

Slowly build his confidence, let's not overcook the guy straight away.

 

I agree with most points on here when combined collectively.

 

I rate the guy very highly, but the conditions on Saturday were atrocious for any experienced international player, let alone our newbie  Pollard 

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
18 Aug 2014, 13:06
#25
18 Aug 2014, 13:06#25
 
Devil ... he doesn't strike me as the nervous type.

Throwing him into the deep end against the All Blacks and the Wallabies wouldn't rattle him in the least. In fact I think he'll probably learn a great deal there and come out the better for it.

He's mentally tough ... lead his county to a final a few months back ... chalked up player of the tournament ... and in my opinion has a lot more to offer than what we've seen so far.

He should not be wrapped up in cotton wool.

Pump him up with confidence and expose him to test rugby against the big boys. He'll be a different player by years end.

 


 

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
18 Aug 2014, 13:13
#26
18 Aug 2014, 13:13#26
Can't argue your logic CC  
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
18 Aug 2014, 13:39
#27
18 Aug 2014, 13:39#27
 I think that we should keep Pollard, Saturday was one of those days where every single player struggled. 
Also, 
Steyn nearly lost us the game. Willie took a brilliant catch, but Morne asked for the ball to be passed to him so that he can get some distance, what ends up happening is that his kick got charged down and nearly led to a try. Not to mention that he kept passing the ball into traffic or lost meters. 
The simple fact was that the boks should have gone to their kick chase game, but none of their kicks actually had any chasers. 
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
18 Aug 2014, 13:51
#28
18 Aug 2014, 13:51#28

 This shouldn't even be a debate.
Typical SAFFA style...
We ALL raved about him and wanted him in the side.

Really? Don't think so.


He had 1 very good game and 1 not so good game (in appalling conditions) for the Boks.

Are any of you doubting his sublime quality after Saturday?

 

Actually, I had my doubts having watched him in the U21's WC...Didn't think the kid was ready then and don't believe he's ready now and as for sublime skills...Wow..methinks that's way over the top. Sounds like a case of Bobbe- jantjies revisited.


If so, then get your heads checked. Dan Carter would have struggled in those conditions.

We have one of the most prodigious talents at our disposal. "Let him make mistakes"... let him learn from them.

...sure about that? in the Test arena?? and how do you guarantee it won't irreparably damage his self believe like it did with Gaffie?


Believe me, DC also overcooked a few kicks when he was 20 years old.

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
18 Aug 2014, 14:04
#29
18 Aug 2014, 14:04#29

 "The simple fact was that the boks should have gone to their kick chase game, but none of their kicks actually had any chasers."

 

The reason the kicks had no chasers is a no-brainer....they were damn useless.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Aug 2014, 14:20
#30
18 Aug 2014, 14:20#30
 Denny
To just go and make out that the game on Saturday - in appalling conditions - is the nrom for furute selection is both stupid and unrealistic.   None of the so-called "established" players were in fact better than the young new players - some were in fact poorer.  
I do not think that any changes at this stage are mandatory one cannot really determine who has to go and who not.   This debate is in fact silly and based more on prejudice than on actual fact and that should be realized by most participants.  
I think that Meyer would not make any changes to the team other than perhaps bringing in Matfield - which may in fact weaken the Tight 5.  For the rest I do not think that Meyer would make changes - because even though I do differ from him insofar as selections are concerned - I do not think he is ignorant and he more than anybody else would realize that it would be a mistake to use the game on Saturday as a norm.   
Meyer said the kicks were too inaccurate to b chased down - in fact very few were and those were basically by Le Roux.    The rest was erratic - way to far to be chased down and mainly serving as a means to donate possession handovers to the Argentinians.   
Even though I accept the try scored by Pienaar as a positive - he was the main culrpit in kicking away possession through totally misdirected kicks.   Wander whether Meyer is rethinking the situat ion as to Scrummie selection after that one.     
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
18 Aug 2014, 14:23
#31
18 Aug 2014, 14:23#31
 
With our scrum already going back at a 100mph, I'm sure we're gonna break the sound barrier when Matfield returns.


DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
18 Aug 2014, 14:40
#32
18 Aug 2014, 14:40#32

 Mike

 

Ruaan Pienaar is one ordinary scrummie, there's gevrek, snail slow and then there's Ruaan. Why he is still in the squad is a mystery. Our scrum had better come good otherwise the rabbitt behind the scrum is going to be caught in the headlights.

GT
Gonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
18 Aug 2014, 14:42
#33
18 Aug 2014, 14:42#33
 this is pretty simple stuff, we started the kid and gave him a shot so he showed some nice work in a very hard test in very hard conditions. i think we learnt enough to know that he is way better than goosen or lambie or boshoff. so he understudies with morne the starter, pretty simple stuff. after a couple of seasons he will be ready to shoulder more responsibilities its simple generational progression stuff here.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
18 Aug 2014, 14:50
#34
18 Aug 2014, 14:50#34
 
Aaaaah ... the usual nonsense from Buggerer!!!
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
18 Aug 2014, 14:52
#35
18 Aug 2014, 14:52#35

 No shit Sherriff.

 

How on earth is he going to benefit from "generational progression" after his confidence has been shredded?

 

 

The kid would be better off giving the RC a miss, he's had a taste of test rugby against the riff-raff from the north, built his confidence in the process, now let him grow in the CC and then re-evaluate his "generational progression"....believe me, he is not going to bring the house down against the AB's or OZ.

GT
Gonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
18 Aug 2014, 14:57
#36
18 Aug 2014, 14:57#36
 i dont think his confidence will be shattered. this isnt pienaar we are talking about, the kid has hard edge and he will do well for the boks. i predict he will do great things for the boks in the run up to the world cup. far better than goosen or the handout 32 test lambie. i think having a taste f test rugby like he had on saturday will actually wet his appetite.
BO
BoklogicPro1,978 posts
18 Aug 2014, 14:58
#37
18 Aug 2014, 14:58#37
 Mozart, in most players case, I would say you are spot on..Not with Pollard though. I think this guy is the real deal. I dont think pressure gets to him too much..I think he will relish the opportunity to face the AB's in Wellington and Aus in Perth...He has never tasted defeat to a NZL team whilst he has had the 10 jersey on his back and they have tried 5 times. All u20 WC's of course and please dont think I am saying that the Boks will beat the AB's because he has beaten their u20's but what I am saying is the black jersey does not intimidate him and he must clearly thrive in those high pressure matches.
End of the day, what do we have to lose? Its not like we beat the AB's in NZL consistently anyway so why not try something different. Playing Morne, whilst safe in the sense that we know what we are getting, does not win us those matches. I would rather lose giving Pollard the much needed experience than lose watching Morne play whom has no future with the Boks past 2015!
Pollard with Lambie on the bench..Pollard and Marnitz Boshoff are probably the 2 guys we should be chucking in there but Marnitz is injured I think? 
Another nice fact to note is the last 4 times the Boks have beaten the Ab's, Brussouw has been at 6!
1. Beast Mtwararira2. Bismarck Du Plessis3. Jannie Du Plessis4. Lood De Jager5. Eben Etzebeth6. Heinrich Brussouw7. Warren Whiteley8. Duane Vermuelen9. Fourie Du Preez10. Handre Pollard11. Bryan Habana12. Jean De Villiers13. Damian De Allende14. Cornal Hendricks15. Willie Le Roux
16. Adriaan Strauss17. Trevor Nyakane18. Thomas Du Toit19. Victor Matfield (In case it goes tits up in the lineout. Boks need a strong l/o)20. Francois Louw21. Ruan Pienaar22. Marnitz Boshoff23. Paul Jordaan
Take that team and let them play the AB's and see how we get on!
GT
Gonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
18 Aug 2014, 15:10
#38
18 Aug 2014, 15:10#38
 morne has a history od dealing pain to new zealand boklogic. he was a key player and our attack last year. look i really like pollard, i think he has the goods, but against the all blacks this year its really important to beat them and morne gives us tha chance. morne has beaten the all blacks 4 times and one of those we nearly nilled them and the other morne scored all 31 points including tries as well as kicks. he has what it takes and i still think his distribution has the edge. without du preez we need a halfback who can send out long accurate fast passes to unleash the outside backs. his decision making is as good as carter and his game management is pretty damn good. talking about lambie though has to be a sick joke. 32 tests of nothing, his biggest moment was stuffing the try to beat australia in the world cup. the guy cant tackle, has a slow weak pass, average boot and no desire to compete. never beaten the all blacks either. boshoff is good, but morne and pollard are a long way ahead of him. i think boshoff in a couple of years could be a real master though. he can shoulder alot of responsibility already but just needs to round out his game.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Aug 2014, 15:39
#39
18 Aug 2014, 15:39#39
Bonzo
Morne is the one that cost us victory in most of the tests in all the tests we lost in the RC and the one we drew as well.   After a string of disasters in 2012 - Meyer was forced to drop him from the team.   We lost two matches last year against the AB's and in both Morne was the root course of the problem.    At Eden Park he lost the plot completely and was directly responsible for two AB tries.   At Ellis Park his poor devision-making cost us a try and his poor defense two more.
He is so poor this year it is incredible - even his Club regards him as their second-string flyhalf.   Anyone who wants him as our flyhalf must have his head read.   He is goofy and totally unbalanced.   

Morne on Saturday was by all accounts worse than Pollard.  Despite a desperate effort by him to ensure a Springbok loss it did not happen - the guy is putrid and that is a fact.
    
GT
Gonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
18 Aug 2014, 16:00
#40
18 Aug 2014, 16:00#40
 you can only blame morne maybe for one test and that was tge aussie loss in 2012, but if our props werent conceding so many kickable penakties then it wouldnt have ended that way. the alk black test in dunedin was 8-8 when goosen came on and he ditectly cost us two tries. the next year bismarck blew the test in nz and mirne was the best back in the home test at ellus park. mate you are so full if  shit it makes me sick. no wonder your credibility is shot.
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