What went wong with the Springbok team

First of all congratulations to the All Blacks - they showed us how the game should really be played.

I have been writing for weeks now about certain deficiencies in the Springbok team and pointed out that we are weak in certain elements of the game. 

Now lets look at the performances of those players I have singled out specifically smf drr whether I was wrong.  

*   The first issue relates to line out ball recovery.  we cannot rely only on one line out jumper and this was proved again today.   There were too many line outs lost because the All Blacks only had to target Etzebeth in line outs.   because Kruger was so weak in that Department of the game - it became a serious problem.   Time to forget about Kruger and the Van der Merwe's.  

*   The loosie combination.   The real bad egg was Alberts - who before his injury had one ball carry - but for the rest missed two tackles and did squat else for the rest of the time he was on the field.   We need a loosie who are competitive in line outs  and be a good tackler.  Kolisi was ten times better than Alberts - but he does not add value to line out play.   Essentially we need a new no 7.

*   I have serious problems with Wayne Kirchner - he really showed nothing under the high ball.   Tried to participate in attacks - but in the main nothing came off them.   However, he was part of the high ball problems that caused so much damage to the Springbok cause.

*   I am afraid Mozart is correct about Engelbrecht's defence - to many holes as a result.

Unless Meyer makes some changes to the team and get really top-performing players into the team - we can kiss good bye to upping the Springbok performance as a team .  

I have Kireran read in my squad selection for both competition - but am really happy - I already have five tries scored in the Test Rugby selection and get 200 bonus points.  Also scoring very well in Foxport.  

The All Black loosies were all over ours and I agree with Shezza - we need Labuschagne and Arno Botha.      

I have Kireran read in my squad selection for both competition - but am really happy - I already have five tries scored in the Test Rugby selection and get 200 bonus points.  Also scoring very well in Foxport.  

The All Black loosies were all over ours and I agree with Shezza - we need Labuschagne and Arno Botha.      

Mozart

Fully agree with you - he should go.   We have better full backs than him. He could go and play in Ireland in future.

What about the other few changes I think is necessary?   Time for Alberts to go and play at lock - he definitely is not a loosie.   The other player of very little value in the team was Kruger.   Terrible under kick in balls and in line outs - time for Stade Francais to have him.

I am still not sure about Engelbrecht's defence.  He should at least made an effort to tackle Barrett.  The latter beat 3 tackles to score - not very good.

Don't you think we need other line out options to help Etzebeth?   They cannot have Etzebeth only in line outs - the whole counter strategy of the All Blacks was centered against him and that remains a problem, since we lost some crucial line outs.     

I think what you suggested will solve most of the problems.   I would use the following in tests on the EOYT and see whthern they make the grade:-

15  SP Marais,  14 Willie le Roux, 13  Engelbecht, 12 Jean de Villiers, 11 Bryan Habana, 10  Morne Steyn, 9  Cobus Reinach,  8  Duane Vermeulen,  7  Pieter Labuschagne, 6 Francois Louw, 5  Pieter Steph du Toit, 4  Eben Etzebeth, 3  Frans Malherbe,  Bismark du Plessis, 1 Tendai Matwarire

16 Adriaan Strauss,  17  Coenie Oosthuizen, 18  Kitshoff, 19 Flip van der Merwe, 20 Sija Kolisi, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Patrick Lambie, 23 Jan Serfontein

I would then add players like Trevor Nyakane, Lood de Jager, Sarel Pretoris,  Stokkies Hanekom and Marnits Boshoff to the mix.

At least four of Meyer's foreign-based favourites are not up to standard and should be out of contention - ie Steenkamp, Kruger, Vermaak and K irchner.     

Shezza

Saw that and wandered why.   However, you did exceptionally well for a first timer in the game and should take us all for a ride in Super 15 next year.  

Mozart

What did Albert do compared to the other loosies on both sides - precious little as far as I am concerned.   I will watch the game again - but to my mind he was like Kruger a non-factor.  

 Mozart

Immoble loosies is why we are at a disadvantage and will never be able to beat the AB's and  struggle against teams we should beat easily.   Our loosies made 16 tackles - missing 1.   The AB loosies made 38 tackles - missing 5.  Incidentally 4 of the 5 AB missed tackles was by McCaw - who has lost some pace lately.

We cannot have loosies limited to tackle only around the fringes - a low hard tackle count means nothing - it is just not good enough.  

It was a free flowing game today - the difference was the AB loosies was pres ent where tackles were to be made - ours only made tackles around the fringes.   Just not good enough.       

Mozart.

Our problem with our loosies at present is they are virtually only useable around the tight phases of the game - they are too slow to make an other impact.,

Mpzart - what do you mean by hard tackles in any event - did the carrier lose the ball or was there a turnover involved?   No  nothing of the sort - in other words he made 6 bog ordinary tackles - not really impressive. 

I am not a great admirer of Kolisi either - he is a very one-dimentional player - and he is never involved in ball recovery at breakdowns and in Super 15 he had a comparatively low tackle count.   He did well to prevent the one AB try - e carried the ball once and that was the sum-total of his efforts.

Don't give Kolisi as a replacement - he is one of the players Meyer has in the squad which really is also not up to standard.

However, a discussion with you on this issue is fruitless - as fruitless ads the discussion was on the Kruger issue.   You were dead set on Kruger before the game and punted Van der Merwe as well - as long as it was not Stephanie - as you call him.  

So jeep on thinking that we have the right loosie combination and we will keep on struggling against teams we should beat easily and lose against the AB's - because our

teams cannot play the required game.   If we had players like Louw, Botha and Labuschagne as loosies today - we would have been much better off than we were.

Mozart

Still waiting for your comments on the loosie issue - anything you want to add?

By the way I am watching the Wallaby game - why are they not struggling against Argentina at home and why did we struggle?   Start thinking of the same things I wrote about our team today - only they were much worse in Mendoza than normal.    

Mozart

The AB's scored four tries against Argentina - we managed only one.   They were all over our loosies that day and they got to breakdown points faster than our loosies.   That was just one of the problems - the other one is all the locks other than Etzebeth you so ardently supported.

Anybody - bar Du Toit whom you call disparagingly Stephanie - is acceptable and your praise singing in respect of Kruger was all over this site.  What now? 

By the way - I did not count Kolisi - but also not Cane and Luatua.   They made 3 takles missing one.   So the count in total is 41 tackles by the AB loosies missing 6  as against 19 by the  SA loosies missing one.   Still they combined made twice as many effective tackles than our loosies managed.  

That loosie combination of the Springboks is NIOT  RIGHT whether you admit it or not.   By the way Kolisi is not test material so do not use him s a yardstick to measure more speedy loosies by.  

So OOM Matey tried to explain this to you. It didn't penetrate, let me  try again. Before we start though, in comparing our loosies to Messam, McCaw and Read, recognize we are setting a high bar.

Firstly recognize the Boks actually had 58% of possession and 60% of the territory.....as such NZ made more tackles. They actually made 134 of which the loosies made 41 or 31%. The Bok loosies only made 19 tackles, but of only 61 the Boks made or 31%. But our loosies made 19 of 20 tackles attempted for a success ratio of 95%.....NZ made 41 of 47 attempted tackles for a ratio of 87%.

So our loosies made the same percentage of team tackles but with a higher success rate.

So let's look at the running game. Here the three tries scored by NZ has to decide the issue. But even though the stats only record two assists, both Louw and Vermeulen created tries. And in terms of metres both sets of loosies did well....NZ with 143 metres from 20 runs and the Bok loosies with 112 metres from 23 runs for a very solid 4.9 metres a carry.

The clearest NZ loosie edge was in lineouts where they prevailed by 7 to 3.

So what should we do, can our loose trio because NZ have a couple of all time greats at loosie.....or recognize our guys had a very productive game.

Most of the turnovers occurred by counter rucking and out wide among the backs...eg the turnover of JJ at the half, leading to the try at forty minutes....our guys were not beaten on the ground by the NZ loosies, nor were they slower to the breakdown.

Breakdown success is so often a by-product of running success....if your runners are easily tackled it's a fertile environment for the second man over the top. if you make more tackles, you are likely to record more turnovers

We lost a test today, that's not proof of anything except the ABs were the better team. It doesn't mean we have better players in the CC we didn't use. The only change I  would have been sure about is if Bekker was available....he wasn't and as saw with van der Merwe and Serfontein, playing the ABs isn't easy for rookies.

Mozart

So I set the bar too high for our loosies and they are indespensible in the SA team?   There must be no change - despite the fact that they under-performed yesterday and in Mendoza - where they were comprehensively beaten by the Puma loosies as  well. 

You speak about the great AB loosies - yet they did not figure in the very high in the list of top loosies in Super 15.   Reid was the highest rated loosie - of theirs but only 7th on the list and Messam was further down still.  The SA loosies featured nowhere and whereas Alberts only played 3 matches he was not at all rated in those three matches.   So our selections were not based on Super 15 performances and then we expect them to compete with the greats you are referring to.  

So where are we now - we have two loosies who are statistically not the best loosies in SA taking into account the Super 15 stats - and we must under no circumstances change them or recommend changes to them so as to try and up our own bar slightly?   That means keep mediocrity in place at all costs. 

At least that its my idea about our loosie play - but may I ask you something else.   Do you honestly think that our loosies are good enough at present?   You say we have nothing better, but on what do you base that?  Are you sure you are not prejudiced when you say that?  

Oi-matey made the comparison of tackles made percentage wise - as a total, but lose sight of the fact that the AB backline players had a lower miss ratio than the SA backline players.   In other words - if the SA backline players made the tackles they should have made - the percentage would have been comparable.   The backline players missed a full 50% of attempted tackles if it is accepted  that Morne in fact missed 5 and not 4 tackles as indicated in ESPN.   In the case of the AB backline players they made 35 tackles - missing 10 (I only take into account the starting line -up players).    That type of argument can be used logically if the figures of the SA backline players are acceptable - which they are not.   So don't try and used an overall percentage when looking at the basic situation.   

The other issue - which you chose to ignore - was Morne Steyn.   You implied that all was well - but in checking his stats - it transpired he missed more tackles than anybody else in the match yesterday.   According to ESPN he attempted 10 tackles and missed 4 - however, according to both Test Rugby and Foxsport he missed 5 tackles of the 10 he attempted.   He according to you and some other members had a good day at the office.   HE DID NOT PERFORM SATIOISFACTORILY - TAKING INTO ACCOUNT HIS PUTRID DEFENCE.

I think that what is clear as daylight is that it is time to dispose of Morne Steyn as well - since he is not really the top flyhalf you and others make him out to be.   Hell - his defence yesterday was putrid to say the least - or is that a type of fact you papered over and refuse to recognise.

You make a lot about the one tackle missed by Engelbreht - but nothing of the lot missed by Morne Steyn?   That really is funny and shows once again that you are prejudiced beyond belief.   When you support a player - that is OK - he can do no wrong.     

I think all of Kirchner, Morne Steyn, Willem Alberts, Juandre Kruger and Jannie du Plessis - ie a full one third of the starting line-up - should be shown the door.  They are the weak links in the Springbok team.   Vermeulen can stay for the EOYT - but when Arno Botha comes back - he should at best be on the bench.  As long as nearly 40% of the starting line up of the Springboks are made up is not changed, we will be setting a low bar and keep on losing to the AB's and struggling in other tests we should win with ease.

Insofar as you are concerned - we have not better players in Super 15 and CC - because you are so prejudiced it is unbelievable.   All other players are routinely and mostly falsely written off by you - so it is easy for you to state that we do not have better players.   Problem is we do - and that is the end of the story.            

So how did the new players do yesterday?

Willie was excellent on attack poor on defence...his attempted intercept on the half was a try maker for the ABs 

JJ was the same as Willie but made 3 crucial mistakes that turned the match, without even mentioning his Taute like miss for touch when we were totally out of position

Serfontein was nowhere....out of his depth

Kolisi was the pick of the bunch, but hardly influential beyond his two excellent contributions

Oosthuizen was in reverse from the moment he came on, Jannie and the Beast had the upper hand.

Nope the heroes yesterday were the oldsters....Habana, Jean, the Beast, Etzebeth and all the loosies. Vermeulen in particular was massive. 

Mozart

Not answering - am I cutting to near the bone in this case,   Why judge only the new players  what about the existing ones?

Why the silence on Morne who missed more tackles than anyone else, Kruger, Jannie, Kirchner, and the loosies - who really should have helped the players in following up, but did squat and who did not really meet requirements.   Vermeulen did a few good things that could mean an average performance -  Louw the same - but Alberts, who was clumsy and fell over when he was supposed to tackle Aaron Smith - was definitely below par. 

Do not expect an answer though.