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FORUM / RUGBY /  What went wrong with Toulon and was there a similarity with what went wrong with Springbok Rugby?

What went wrong with Toulon and was there a similarity with what went wrong with Springbok Rugby?

Started by clevermike6 REPLIES541 VIEWS· 02 Jan 2019, 10:34
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
02 Jan 2019, 10:34
#1
02 Jan 2019, 10:34#1

Toulon since 2012 had a string of experienced players in their squad - probably the best of which were Wilkinson and from an SA perspective Bakkies Botha. Habana, Juan Smith. JP Pietersen and up to last year  Vermeulen.   Onn Saturday they had a massive loss - the worst since 2013.   So there were serious discussions on that match in the media as well.

In essence in the case of Toulon in recent years have beenlost the plot completely.  They forgot that as important as winning is, so is team renewal and building up a basis for the future,  As a result they have dropped down to 12 out of 14 on the Top 14 log this year,

So lets look at what happened to Toulon pertaining to the six players mentioned:-

*   Jonny Wilkinson left Toulon in 2014 at the age of 35 after playing for the team for five years.   Up to his retirement he was still a top club player - a top class international player until 2011 when he left test rugby as well.   

*    Bakkies Botha was one of the nest SA locks ever before his retirement of test rugby in 2011.   He returned to play test rugby under Meyer and was a bad joke in the tests he played in sine 2011.  He retired from Toulon in 2015 at the age of 35.   

*   Juan Smith was very good - but had a serious ankle injury that threatened his career om 2011.  He went To Toulon in 2013 and apparently is still on contract with them, but he is not in the recent teams playing for Toulon.   He layed o test under Meyer and afterwards apologized publicly for letting SA and the team down for a seriously defenctive performance.    He is already 37 years old and onviously past his sell-by date.

*   Brain Habana - one of the best wings ever - went from an international perspective on the slide since 2015.   Although Toulon extended his contract for a year they did not select him in 2018  to  play in matches for them and he then retired.  

*    JP Pietersen was a top class international wing until 2014 - but then the slide set in in 2015 and by 2017 he was ou of real contention for Springbok selection.   He is still playing for Toulon at full back - he has a pace-deficiency that is not good enough as a wing.

*   Duane Vermeulen had a serious neck injury in 2015 and was rushed back by Meyer to play in the WC - where he did well enough - but then went off to Toulon.   His stay with them was marred by injury  problems in 2016 and 2017 and he was not a regular in the Toulon team.   His contract was not renewed  at the end of the 2017/8 season and he then played three tests for the Springboks in June 2018 - excellent in the first two tests and off the boil in the third.   He then went off to japan and skipped the RC tests in 2018 and returned for the November 2018 tests - still off the boil.   

Toulon also contracted other internationals like Ma'a Nonu - he was successful - but he did nit renew his contract with the Club and went back to NZ at the age of 36,

From the above it is obvious that Toulon suffered from the same malady that was started by Meyer and with disastrous consequences subsequently - namely the selection of too many past their sell-by date players and to little emphasis on team building for the future.    


                         

  

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
02 Jan 2019, 14:30
#2
02 Jan 2019, 14:30#2
Facts Tokkie, facts. Bryan Habana did play in 2016 in both the 15/16 season and the 16/17 season matches. The first two examples I plucked out of the air, the first against Bath in the 2015/16 season and the second against Bordeaux in the 2016/17 season, featured Habana in the starting lineup.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
02 Jan 2019, 15:54
#3
02 Jan 2019, 15:54#3
Ceradunce
I  do not think you understand English at all or your ability to do so  is shot,  Let me explain in some detail:-
*Brain Habana - one of the best wings ever - went from an international perspective on the slide since 2015.   Although Toulon extended his contract for a year they did not select him in 2018  to  play in matches for them and he then retired."
There are two issues clear year - the one deal with is test career and the second with Toulon.   Le it be clear he did not play test rugby for Toulon.   
*    In the case of Habana his appearances in tests in 2015 was showing signs of ineffectiveness never on par with what he achieved during his career laying for SA.   He was even ineffective in the Sevens squad participating in the 2016 WC - and he became worse  in test performances in 2016.
*     Habana's contract with Toulon transpired at the end of the 2017 season and was extended by ONE YEAR to the season  ending in May 2018.    Howevr, he never made the Toulon team in 2018 and ten announce his retirement from Rugby.  
I above referred to the last contract  extension and that was clear enough for a kid to understand,      
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Jan 2019, 17:35
#4
02 Jan 2019, 17:35#4
No the opposite.....the Boks brought back old players under HM to acheive a modal ranking as World number 2. We then went to a new team with lots of youngsters which resulted in a drop in ranking from 5 to 7.....three embarrassing years after HM left!
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
02 Jan 2019, 18:31
#5
02 Jan 2019, 18:31#5
Uhmmm. Suddenly 2016 became 2018. The usual trick to change your balls up and then go off on a rant. Your initial post claimed that he did not play a game in 2016. I specifically checked on that and to make sure I picked a game from the 2015/16 season played during 2016 and one from the 2016/17 season played during 2016. Shyte style ou Tokkie, shyte style. Can you see why I have my doubts about your so-called discussion with a current Bok player?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
02 Jan 2019, 19:11
#6
02 Jan 2019, 19:11#6

Listen what has that to do with Toulon.   I am not a brainless fool like you and what not say I had a longish chat with one of the starting players and have ample witnesses to prove it.   In any event I am not a witless liar like you anyway,   Get a shrink to remove the BS from your brain cavity - maybe that single malfunctioning braincell of yours will start functioning again.    

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
02 Jan 2019, 20:26
#7
02 Jan 2019, 20:26#7
“ In any event I am not a witless liar like you anyway,......” I am wondering wether I should comment to that or wether I should just let it go........
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