When are we ever going to find a Bok coach

 Saffex
It pisses me off as well - and I want to see what the clueless bugger comes up with as a team for Saturday.   Matfield as captain - wonder how much further we can go backwards.  

 
It's not exactly as if he had a choice. Matfield was his only option.

I would never consider Du Preez nor Bismarck.

Who else is there?


 

What exactly is the definition of a real coach?

 
Well if one looks at our WC success stories then he'll firstly have to be English speaking it seems.

Does that count?

So who do we have roaming around who has English as his home language?

Jake's out.

Mallet's not interested.

I guess we're screwed!!

 

 Being a national coach is some what being like the prime minister/president of a country.You will be hated,called names and told how stupid you are by some and loved to the point of godly worship by others. One thing is certain that Meyer is concerned about his reputation.He desperately wants to be the number one and he is trying everything to reach it -by selecting old crocks -and this in turn is backfiring because people are loose face with him even more. Saying that...coaches are made to be fired.The same way that players are made to retire.

Oh what crap Bismark was the obvious choice. Matfield should not be anywhere near the side other than line-outs coach  

Meyer is the best coach we have, with the exception of Jake White. He is smart, has great player loyalty, was gutsy enough to go for the 4 try win at Ellis Park, and is merit oriented.  

 Mozart
Merit-orientated?  Definitely not.   What Meyer is is something he has learned from the ANC and applies most of the time.  That is jobs for pals - the latest example is the Matfield saga.
Merit-orientated and you look at that overized squad and how many are merit selections and how many jobs for pals?   I think it is 50-50 but the pals are more likely to get playing time.  The pals include all Blue Bulls players - if he is loyal it is in the main to Blue Bulls and ex-Blue Bulls.       

 Saffex I agree with your last comment.
I read that Meyer actually encouraged Matfield to make a comeback....what a clot.
This is why younger classy players are seeing the big bucks overseas because that cannot gain selection to the national team.
Its not all about money because every player wants to get rewarded by representing their country at the international level.
Than we get coaches that make selections as Meyer has....shocking.
Also do you perhaps know when the UK bookmakers are opening the betting for RWC 2015?

What fools the poor fans are, as demonstrated by posters on this site. The Boks only lost to the ABs last year, and then in part because of the scandalous Bismarck card and the all out attack to get 4 tries at Ellis Park. We were well in both games. 
Meyer has brought in youngsters and given them every chance, but he has also not excluded older players. Players like Matfield who took a team with zero wins without him to 70 per cent wins with him.
We demand to beat the ABs. But do our young runners beat the ABs at 7s....do we have a better record than them in the juniors....do we dominate them in the S15? Nope....in fact Meyer has done better than any of these other situations.
All these insults thrown at the coach from a bunch of losers disgust me.

 But wee matfiled as captain 
First you have to deserve your place in the team as a plyer. Ou matfiled hasnt had a decent game in decades! 

If you dont want Bissie, who can captain a side, then you can have Duanne Vermuelen who does a good job for the Stormers. Always wise to have a WP man at the helm in any case .

 Mozart
I will just respond with no insults.   This story is about the Ellis Park test is about as weird as they come.  Because the Springboks wanted to score tries does not excuse the disgustingly poor defense and other plays by some Sprigboks - in essence Alberts (2 tries given away). Morne Steyn (2 tries given away) and Engelbrecht (1 try given away).
The other story about Matfield is equally weird.   The Bulls forwards never struggled in the matches without  Matfield - it was their malfunctioning backline that was the main problem.    They lost in the main because of the latter problem.  It centered in the main around their flyhalf (Fouche) who buggered up game after game.   He was changed one game before Matfield's  starting line up return and the Bulls started to win games. When Potgieter was not playing at flyhalf Pollard was. The backline started functioning much better.
Rugby is a team game played by 15 players and one player does not change the game performances  around - unless that player in a critical position like flyhalf constantly buggered up like Fouche did.   Fouche took 5 players out of the game.  So he was the main problem.  
A lock's contribution is minimal in normal playing situations.  Where a lock is crucial is in driving mauls and since Matfield's return the Bulls became poor in the phase of the game - since Marfield contributes zero in that respect,   

Whether Matfield made a positive all-round performance is extremely questionable and to say he was the reason for the turnaround in performances is equally so.            
  

 What utter, complete rubbish. You dont hear  a negative word  about Matfield's selection from the professionals, but the Oom has figured it all out. I cant guarantee that every one of HM's theories will work out. One thing I can guarantee is that the thought process which is an amalgam of many coaches, player feedback and HM ...is infinitely more informed and complex than the above two posts. Which are, to be kind, nonsense.

 The driving maul performance this year by all South African teams has not been anything like it was in 2013. 
This is perhaps the main reason most SA teams sit at the bottom of the table. 

Even the Kings were winning games thanks to tries from driving mauls in 2013.

Matfield has in the past been very effective in driving mauls. The number 5 lock, is usually the best starting point for the maul as their are supporting players on either side. The number 5 lock is good at securing quick clean ball. 
Even Meyer said that having Matfield on the field is like having a second coach on the field. 

 Sharkbok
There are already rumbles and Meyer knows about it about the Matfield issue - otherwise Meyer would not come up with praise songs and making remarks like :the second coach".   A team does not need a coach taking up a playing position - they need a player that performs.   
Matfield at 30 might have been good in driving mauls, but at present he is -weighing 106/107 kgs - way to light to be effective in any tight 5 play and especially not in driving mauls.   What is weird is that there is a hell of a hullabaloo about Matfield - but nobody even raise the weight and strength issue.  The weight of locks vary from 118 to 125 kgs on average -  Mozart weighs less than even average loosies weigh.   
That alone will cause serious damage to our tight 5 play.   I am especially surprised at Mozart in the relevant regard.   He wants Steyn at all costs at flyhalf because of his physique - in respect of Matfield physique is not at all mentioned.   Incidentally Beeno is correct about the weight issue.   When Matfield was at his prime a decade ago there were some lighter locks around - nowadays it is unheard of in international teams.
         

 
Right now our best 5 lock is ... Matfield.

The 5 lock's primary function is to win the set piece.

WHO else is there that can do it better than Matfield??

TELL ME... WHO??

Flip?? That's a laugh!! He's a converted 4 with very little test experience at 5. Matfiled is hands down the better 5 lock we have currently available. He alone will win us this set piece and that is enough to get my thumbs up.

All other options at 5 are out injured or overseas.

Right now our best option as Captain is ... Matfield.

Bismarck is prone to temper tantrums. A leader cannot afford these little hissy fits ...nor can we as a team afford our cpt to be sitting on the sidelines with a yellow card because of it. 

That I'm afraid is a no brainer so give me a break with Bismarck as Bok cpt. That idea is utter stupidity.

Du Preez is only good at whining at the ref. He has no leadership qualities AT ALL. I would NEVER even consider him as our starting 9 ... never mind cpt. What a joke.

Schalk is out injured every second match ... not an option.

Strauss is suspended ... not an option.

Juan is injured (my choice by the way) ... not an option.

Vermeulen ... inexperienced ... not an option

Sooooo ... who else???

Come on, Mike ... who else ... hit me with your best shot.

 Clean Cut
I will give you one name that is a better 5  - Andries Bekker.  He is not a rugby geriatric like Matfield - is taller than Matfield and weighs in at 120 kg against Matfield's 107 kg.  
Meyer did not want Bekker because of his pally-pally relationship with Matfield.   He never took a two year break from rugby and played on - Matfield took a break and Meyer was constantly asking him to return with a promise of initially the captaincy and afterwards automatic selection to the Springbok team.   By making him interim captain Meyer fulfilled part of his original promise.
That is not the basis for player selections - the basis should always be merit selection and with Meyer is rather the selecting his pals - remember what he said about selection of players he is familiar with.  That meant a flood of Blue Bulls players initially.   During 2012 14 of the 15 Bulls players was at one stage or another in the match day 23 during all three series played.
The day Meyer start making merit selections is the day I will support him as a coach.  That is unlikely to happen - so as far as I am concerned he is a no-no.     
        

 
Ummm ... so I take it your not aware that Bekker isn't available this year, right?

Not at all, Mike.

For someone supposedly so clued up. I must say I'm a little surprised.

This is the first time you've mentioned Bekker, Mike.

How come?

You have never spoken of him ... at all ... until now ... strangely, only after I destroyed all the absurd option you guys were waffling on about!!

I have already made it known that Bekker and Etsebeth would be my Bok lock pair with PSDT on the bench. 

Sometimes I get the distinct impression that you say a lot without ever really thinking first. That you criticize for the sake of criticism. That you run down everything just cause you can. 

Like this for example.

"Matfield is not good enough" ... "but there aren't any better option" ... but let's keep bashing the best option available to us. Just cause I can.

You're a damn fool, Mike!!

clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11001 RE: When are we ever going to find a Bok coach
June 04, 2014, 09:09:49  Clean Cut
I will give you one name that is a better 5  - Andries Bekker.  He is not a rugby geriatric like Matfield - is taller than Matfield and weighs in at 120 kg against Matfield's 107 kg.  
Meyer did not want Bekker because of his pally-pally relationship with Matfield.
Here we go again. Bekker pissed off to Japan in March last year, long before there were even talks about the return of Matfield. He knew well how the Japan contracts worked. He knew that he had to negotiate the same kind of agreement that JPP, Grant, FDP and now Jaque Fourie has. He decided to prolong his career, playing rugby in Japan. He was just concerned about himself and his fragile  body. That is why he signed himself into a contact that stopped him from playing for the Boks. He knows that he cannot compete a full season before having hos usual seasonal breakdown.

http://www.iol.co.za/sport/rugby/cup-competitions/bekker-to-leave-wp-for-japanese-club-1.1487040
"Bekker, the most capped Stormers player in the Super Rugby competition, aimed to prolong his professional rugby career with the move to Japan.

“I'd like to thank everyone at Western Province for their incredible support over the years,” said Bekker, who has 29 Test caps for the Springboks.

“It will be a sad time when I do leave Cape Town, but my wife, Elaine, and I are excited about the adventures that lie ahead"

Cleancut
I am not aware that Bekker is out with an injury.   If Meyer really wants him he can get him by special agreement with the Japanese Clubs - like he did with other players.   
The team announcement will be soon - then you will see some ral Meyer bashing - just wait for it = its coming.     Some people call it stirring and this pot is so full of members that is to be stirred and made shouting mad.     

 
Horseshit, Mike!!

Your a doddering old fart due for a retirement home, desperately in need of round the clock care.

I'm not a fan of Meyer. There are however certain issues that have been forced upon him. That are beyond his control ... and I'm prepared to give him a break regarding them.

You on the other hand have had a mouth full to say against him, right from the onset. Never once have you cut him any slack.

Grow a pair and come clean ... you don't like the man ... and because of it you'll never have anything decent to say of him ... no matter what.

End of story!!