JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
28 Apr 2014, 22:12#2
Well according to scientific mathematical algorithms (sponsored by Moz I believe) it won't make any difference because as fast as new ones emerge they flop (into the abyss) & the cycle repeats. Stick to Matfield & the tried & true, the rest will shoot through (Europe)
Evidence provided by Beeno & verified by JW survelliance systems
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
28 Apr 2014, 22:24#3
de Allende, Carr, Lood, Faf de Klerk and Jacques du Plessis are the new boys to be added to the mix I reckon
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
28 Apr 2014, 23:57#4
Carr - hahahahahahahahaha - not on merit snapster. You must be joking but I am afraid you are not.
Never mind Moz he gets a little pessimistic at times and is very attached to wee matfield for some strange reason. My best attmpts to get him right on this have failed. I mean even ou snapster has at last seen the light. The penny began to drop when I pointed out wee matfield was only between 106 and 108 kgs. It burst his bubble of matfield being this big lock he had in his fantsy world. From then on he bgan to see the light.
From what we have seen snapster Benjamin and Van der Walt would not let the Boks down.
Behind a powerful Bok pack Deon would become a world star.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Apr 2014, 00:24#6
Dr Moz seeing the emmegence of new players is not your forte so leave it to the experts.Unfortunately snapster blotted his copybook by including Carr. Maybe the word expert would be more appropriate.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Apr 2014, 01:08#7
Mozart
I know at times you comment on players you have never seen playing - and when you did up you base your arguments on one incident during matches. If you like the player you write him up like it is unbelievable and the supposed virtue is over-emphasized like it is unbelievable. In the cases of players you like even the remotest negative issue is written up to unbelievable length - and it is always necessary to watch that incident to see whether it actually happened and get a true perspective as to what happened.
Bearing in mind most of you observations are really baloney. You are really pushing one scrum into every scrum in the case of Malherbe. Consult his ball carry stats and tackle stats and you may find out why he is so highly rated by Meyer.
Van der Walt - nope - why nope? Because he is the best-performing 8 in Super 15?
When did you discover Bastareaud - it must be recently since you started to quote him in every second post you write, Let me inform you Basteraud has been around for years. He was not a regular in the no 13 jersey of France - but he sometimes start and sometimes come if the bench. Basteraud is slow and a strong ball carrier 0 much like a loosie. He was always stopped and he nearly never score tries or initiate attacking moves 0 he is much like Marcel Coetzee - try and make a run in traffic and make a few meters. This is the player you listed why they should have stronger players - what a joke.
De Allende - hot and cold - because he made one error in the Chiefs game - the one one incident jerk at it again. He is better than useless Frans - who you wants in the team come hell or high water. By the way Basteraud will run over Frans - because he is even slower than Basteraud and will not be able to get out of the way.
"But for most of those there are better incumbents. So all in all, I see no new players."
It would be funny if you could provide the names of the incumbents who are better. I need a laugh badly!!!!
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Apr 2014, 01:23#8
You three palookas see Boks behind every bush. The only two new Boks of note in the last 30 months are Etzebeth and Willie....all these other guys are just provincial cannon fodder....elevated to potential Bok status by google eye d groupies.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Apr 2014, 01:28#9
Van der Walt "the best-performing 9 in the tournment". Are you eating the berries again OOM?
AJArthur John
Pro1,748 posts
AJArthur JohnPro1,748 posts
29 Apr 2014, 04:25#10
mozart at last we agree on players.
Etzebeth and Willie are indeed rugby finds.
Most of the others guys like Malherbe, Cilliers managed to claim Springbok colours but never ever deserved to be given a shot.
Fourie is a penalty maker for the opposition teams and reminds me of a guy who completely looses it when he sees the rugby field. Short boere temper just like Vermeulen.
A lot of the bloggers also rate "Kiss-off" but I do not. Each game I have watched him play he has under performed and been buckled by the other props.
Young Loop and the du Plessis have impressed as have De Allende when he is at center.
But with quota again rearing its pathetic head look for the new Boks to come from you know where.
There are numerous young players that are well positioned to move up but they are held back to accommodate the old guys and we will loose a few of these guys to overseas teams because they cannot make the national team because of skin colour.
Unfortunate but true.
I have switched to watching most of the Europe games.....in preparation to continue watching the "Best and not the REST"
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Apr 2014, 08:25#11
Mozart
Thanks the number obviously was 8 and I corrected it. Now come on - do an evaluation of the "better" incumbents and let us enjoy the joke.
I will do it for you since you are apparently incapable of doing it:-
Extremely poor - Jannie du Plessis - can still scrum ovvasddionslly, very poor otherwise Francois Steyn
Poor - JP Pietersen - way to slow for a wing JJ Engelbrecht - zero penetration at center Morne Steyn - flopped at Stade Francais
Average, but very limited - Duane Vermeulen - disappointing this season Willem Alberts - slow and ineffective in most aspects Jacque Fourie - slow as a carthorse - no attacking capabilities. We have a serious problem at 13 - that has not been clarified. We have a problem at 14 - where JP lost his speed and is becoming a problem case. We have a problem at 10 and the candidates are all better than Morne - your suggestion of Francois Steyn is a joke in bad taste. We have a problem at 7 - Alberts is just not producing the goods in 80% of loosie play. We have a serious problem at 3 - Jannie is an embarrassment. That means 5 starting line-up problems.
We have two locks in place - the squad needs a third lock and that is not thee weak and ineffective Matfield and way past it Bakkies Botha. We have one prop in place - we need another three and especially a tighthead. Coenie is one 0 but will he eve play again and stay available?
I think De Villiers is up to standard, but which centers can back him up? We need two more centers - one for the bench. At scrummie we may be able to use Du Preez - but he is rapidly approaching replacement material. He was rather average in most tests played last year.
The players who are incumbents and coasting is in urgent need of a wake up call - they are not irreplaceable.
29 Apr 2014, 15:59#12
We are talking new Boks here and Mike finds a way to rubbish a seasoned Bok in Frans Steyn...
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Apr 2014, 16:35#13
Boklogic
Look I was trying to find gaps where new Springboks need to be considered and indicates the potential vacancies with due regard to the performances of players.That includes all present Springboks inclusive of your holy St Francois Steyn.
If you have a different idea about vacancies please come up with your thinking on the issue without a referen ce to the Steyns - both are in fact not even remotely close to selection - Meyer would be mad to pick them on current performance.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Apr 2014, 17:00#14
What we need is arock solid tight five with a more mobile loose trio especially on the highveldt. Put we do not want a flimsy little pack.
How about a loose trio of Deon, Britz (8) and Du Plessis (7) Beast, Bissie, Malherbe/CoenieDeon first to ball and Britz right there!
Etzebeth and Flip/ Du Toit/Lood.
Deon is the only small guy. But this pack is much more mobile and size wise fine.
Then get in some goers in the backline. Reinach, Potgieter (for now) Habana, Jean, Allende, Willie, Mvovo?
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Apr 2014, 18:24#16
Mozart
Please explain the following:-
"That implies we are going to continue the flawed tactics that lost the Ellis Park test. No, no and no. "
What so-called "flawed tactics" are you referring to? I know you preach that tries are not necessary and the Springboks scored four tries that day - so they are not favoured for that by you.
The Ellis Park test was lost because of poor tackling by Morne Steyn, Alberts and Engelbrecht - each gave away at least one try. Morne was clueless as to decision making - costing one try as well and Alberts fell over his own feet when he had to recover a breakdown ball. That is what cost us the game - there was nothing wrong with the execution of the game plan - there was bullshit defense and decision making by certain players.
What d o you expect? At Ellis Park the AB loosies scored 3 tries = where was our loosies to prevent that? You want to play our strength - but since 2011 that "strength" was ineffective. Even when winning 60% of the ball - we still lost the games against the AB's - why? Because our loosies were totally ineffective at the best of times. They beat our slow and massive pack by better ball usage.
At least half of the present Springboks cannot pass and catch balls properly to save their lives and they are clueless about reading of the game as well. Mallett, Naas and Skinstad are correct - instead of improvement in their skill set it has gone backwards this year.
I think the person who needs to get a grip are you. Commentators like Mallett, Skinstad and Naas are all wrong - Mozart is the only right person. Unless we have at least passable ball skills and at least reasonably mobile players we will lose badly this year - and those things are seriously absent in the case of some players you favour for selection.
29 Apr 2014, 18:51#17
Am i the only one that doesnt fancy de Allende?
I just don't see him as a good Bok center. and def is not quick enough for wing.
I dunno, he has had a few good weeks. Maybe my opinion will change in the future... but for now, im sticking with JDV, Frans, de Jong, Serfontein and Engelbrecht.... in no particlar order.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Apr 2014, 18:57#18
Chippo you must be bloody blind
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Apr 2014, 18:58#19
Malherbe being worked every week.......that is utter rubbish.......name a single scrum where he has been worked this year........you wont find one
RORooinek
Captain18,117 posts
RORooinekCaptain18,117 posts
29 Apr 2014, 19:02#20
LMAO!
Deon Fourie as Springbok?
Pfffffffffffffffffffffft! Baboon-ou, the only place you're ever going to see the words "Deon Fourie" and "Springbok" in the same sentence is in those wet dreams you have about your hero.
I doubt if Deon Fourie is even 5th in line for the Springbok hooker jersey and as for this laughable fantasy you have that the ponderous and weak little fellow might be picked as a Springbok flanker, I'm guessing Heyneke Meyer knows of schoolboy fetchers who he'd select before he ever dreamed of picking the slow little marshmallow as his Springbok #6.
Please keep the laughs coming, Baboon-ou!
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Apr 2014, 19:03#21
You used to say that about Werner Kruger and Greyling before the omelette hit you smack in the face. Malherbe has struggled all S15 ...as has Kitshoff. They haven't dominated one S15 opponent, an d you want them as your Bok front row. Thick as a brick.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Apr 2014, 19:06#22
I have no issue with Greyling, I conceded years ago that Kruger was not up to scratch but you have no other material so you keep bringing his name up - that's just weak.
Malherbe and Kitshoff have not struggled, go check where the Stormers scrum is ranked this S15.
Um last I checked, my Bok frontrow comprised Beast, Bismark and Coenie.......with Kitshoff and Malherbe as back-ups......I'm not stupid enough to select Steenkamp as my back-up
Moz, you just make shit up.............thick as brick, you starting with this shit are you - pathetic?
29 Apr 2014, 19:10#23
@Saf..
Look, Im happy to be proven wrong. But to me he looks like a solid CC and SXV player.
I'd really prefer JDV or Steyn at 12 with Engelbrecht at 13 and Serfontein on the bench.
Regarding F de Klerk... yes please!
Potential to be our next FDP! great decision maker...
And a fantastic runner with a lightning pass.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Apr 2014, 19:14#24
Dave you have so many of these front row mistakes, it's painful......remember when you were howling for Deon Carstens. I tried to help, but you would have none of it Then you were dead against Os at the RWC07....you wanted Steenkamp!!!!!!!!! Malherbe and Kitshoff are miles away from test ready, listen to those who know better.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Apr 2014, 19:24#25
Nope have never been a Carstens fan......you have me confused with someone else.
Yes Steenkamp in his youth was better than an old Os. Os was a patch of his glory days in that WC......Steenkamp was better. Its as poor as the call on Matfield is going to be.......Meyer is going to select Matfield for the WC and we will be returning early
Moz you have NEVER known better
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Apr 2014, 19:29#26
No Chippo, you are 100% wrong about de Allende, he is difficult to stop and always makes yards in contact. He has also shown good feet with a step or two this season.
He is one of the few backs that is a real handful. But is he a 12.......no way in hell, he is a finisher not a creator in the Jean or Serfontein mould. I believe de Allende should be playing 13.
Faf has been a revelation, find of the year. Ackerman dropping him last week for the useless Cronje about sums the man up as a coach really
29 Apr 2014, 19:35#27
As opposed to Engelbrecht?
Wow. Big call.
Cronje = most useless provincial player i have ever seen. Worse than Jorrie Kruger.
I mean this... and Jorrie was really bad.
No idea why he was taken from the sharks.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Apr 2014, 19:44#28
No JJ is my choice at 13, that wont change in a hurry. I'm just saying de Allende should be playing 13 for the Stormers and he is good enough to make the Bok squad.
Agreed on Cronje, he is the worst I have ever seen, closely followed by Bondiseo. How Cronje has ever won a CC or S15 cap is beyond me. I said to my son that if Cronje can win a cap at that level, virtually anyone could
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Apr 2014, 20:01#29
I'm not a De Allende fan at centre....but I'd rather have him than JJ. He isn't dragged along and offloaded against like JJ. He also occasionally does something. In the RWC it's not going to be fast lighties running through space....it's hard contact between big men in limited space. JJ can't deal with that....and there is not a creat ive spark in his whole body.
29 Apr 2014, 20:12#30
I think that in this country we either want the laaities that did great at u/20 level or we have a coach that like to select players that were last in their prime back in 2007.
I think that we are missing a trick here, we need to try and hold on to the players between 24 and 27. I think SA players come into own their around that age. A few seasons of super rugby and knocking at the door should be good for our national team.
I also think its a dam shame that Brussouw has been discarded.
We have had some good youngsters packing their bags way to early and now featuring in European team of the week. Stander is one that stood out for me.
For one I'm glad that Steyn and Kirchner and co have left but it has had a massive impact on the team and the bulls will take a few seasons to pluck that hole, but they will have the same problem with players deciding to pack their bags.
The stormers have been criminal at not using their talent. Namely Sadie, JJ, Whitehead, JP, Swiel etc.
We need to find a way of keeping players in the fold between 23 to 27. If you not a bok by 27 then by all means, you have every right to go abroad.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Apr 2014, 20:17#31
Mozart
I quoted one of your wild statements and reponded to it - so you turn quiet again and did not respond.
"In the RWC it's not going to be fast lighties running through space....it's hard contact between big men in limited space."
Another wild statement. You have been carrying on about that one ever since you have discovered Bausteraud who is not always selected by France as starting center in ant event. Since you are cluelesss about the role of backlines and almost everything else to do with rugby - one can only but wonder how you think slow players with limited ball skills and no reading of the game can be a solution to performance in the WC.
What you are actually implying might as well mean we must pick 15 forwards and deploy some of them to play in the backline and everything will be fine since there will be no play outside of traffic,
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Apr 2014, 20:57#32
We are sorted at centre.......we have two class acts to start in Serfontein and JJ and plenty of good back-ups in Frans, de Allende, Frans Venter, Taute, Sadie and Esterhuizen
MDMonkey D Luffy
Pro6,277 posts
MDMonkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
29 Apr 2014, 22:03#33
to answer the threads title question, there will be no new Boks introduced.
meyer snubbed a good deal plenty of top class players last year and reintroduced older Bok players in the team like fourie du preez, bakkies, jacque fourie etc
has anyone seen anything to indicate this is trend is about to change???
considering players returning after a lengthy time off for various reasons, like burger and lineout king matfield, a more appropriate title would be which old Bok will return to the Boks.
the following players deserve a shot though in 2014,,,
jacques du plesiss, damien de allende, philip van der walt, jacques potgieter, cobius reianch.
but like i said, outstanding form means nothing to meyer, lappies and lood were two of the best players in their positions last year and both were snubbed with what appeared to be relative ease.
jacuqes du plesiss though is one player who IMO has got that x factor, not too many people can draw in defenders the way he does, and regardless of the numbers giving himattention, he still easily gets over the advantage line, its crazy how tough he is to stop.
i would give duplessis first crack at 7 where hes been one of if not the best blindside flanker in the comp.
he is also a lock which gives the Boks plenty of utility factor, plus more genuine options come lineout times.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Apr 2014, 22:57#34
Moz the pack I selected is around the 930 kg mark. It is very mobile and equiped to play a fast paced game and outgun the wee abs physically.
Rooitwit please oak your ignorance is getting the better of you again. Why even mention him as a hooker option. Bwaahahahaha he is a 6 oak and thats it.
Du Plessis MUST take over from Alberts. Britz gives us reasonable power with lineout ability (Has palyed lock for Lions), pace, off loading skills and an 80 minute game. If you pick Lood and Etzebeth you have two mobile locks around the 125 kg mark. Get the vison please. Big fast mobile pack.
Some oaks are still pining for wee victor. Hahahahahhahahaha man that is hilarious!
Neither JJ nor Jan should be in the centre position. JJ is only a possibility on the wing.
Jan is not quite ready.
Meyer I hope you are listening.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Apr 2014, 23:03#35
Taute a back up at centre...hahahaha...you are a tonic Dave. Imagine that, JJ backed up by Taute, Uruguay must be quaking in their boots. But they are safe....the ball never gets past Jan Stepfontein. Steppie has run 73 times and passed 39 times. So the ball gets past him only 35% of the time. You are moaning about the waif JJ not getting the ball...Dave...that's your problem.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Apr 2014, 23:12#36
Taute is improving but way off test selection. Jan still has away to go. Sadie and Benjamin both look more accomplished. It will be interesting to see which center pair gets the better of whom when Cheethas play Bulle.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Apr 2014, 23:15#37
Watch for de Jongh to totally outplay JJ when they meet....just like last year. Juan presents a small target, not enough for the Clingster to hang on to.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Apr 2014, 23:19#38
De Jongh will however not give the crucial pass. Hence pla y him on the wing. His defence is adequate for wing.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Apr 2014, 23:28#39
HasBeen....who won the CC for us last year? But I will check your passing comment...factually.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Apr 2014, 23:34#40
One break doesn't make a career Moz. His passing is poor. He has been a bit better on his return. Perhaps ou Allistair identified the weakness. It could happen! Moz you can rely on the Beenoscope!
