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FORUM / RUGBY /  White is a coach I admire

White is a coach I admire

Started by clevermike19 REPLIES221 VIEWS· 10 Jul 2014, 13:02
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Jul 2014, 13:02
#1
10 Jul 2014, 13:02#1

White is really the one coach that has a very good knowledge of rugby and he is the influence that actually carry the Sharks forward.   He s extremely loyal and publicly supportive of his players - but that seems his one weakness.  


 If one look at the actual performances of some players one wonders how it could be that White in fact actually persists with them.   Statistically the two worst players in the Sharks team is Francois Steyn and Willem Alberts.


Steyn is the regular destroyer of any backline play and if you look objectively at the matches which the Sharks lost - he figured prominently in causing the losses.   The problem with Steyn is that he can play for about 15 minutes in games and then his wobbly knee takes over.   His main problem is that he cannot make line breaks for his team - there was only one such break in all the games Steyn played in - and he cannot create space for players on his outside or inside as a matter of fact.  His defense was not up to standard and his constant ball possession losses - more than any other player in Super 15 - is notorious.   If Plumtree or anybody else was the coach - Steyn would have been in Japan already.


Then we have the case of Willem Alberts - the slowest and most defective loosie in SA - who fails to play a role in most aspects of the responsibilities of loosies.   He never protects or recovers balls from breakdown situations and his ball handling skills is non-existent.    His tacking range from poor (the Alberts - Treeby tackling technique) to very average - and his ball carries is really non-productive.   If you do not believe me just go and watch some games - especially the ones they lost and study his statistics.   


The two players mentioned have huge reputations - but never really delivers on those - so they are hyped up without playing any role in performances.


Where Whit e is to be admired is his selection of Du Toit this weekend as loosehead prop.  That guy is still Under 20 - but he is going to make waves in future.   


.     



DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
10 Jul 2014, 13:34
#2
10 Jul 2014, 13:34#2

Same here Mike

 

Wherever he has gone, he has been successfull, just looking at what he did for the Brumbies in the short time he was with them shows this.

 

He will make the Sharks a formidable side with his astute rugby brain, but more so his technical side 

ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
10 Jul 2014, 14:18
#3
10 Jul 2014, 14:18#3
Frans is one of the key catalysts for momentum in every team he has ever played for Michael. He gets the team going forward, it's a guarantee every time; that's extremely valuable in modern rugby. One of the best defenders in the game, one of only a handful of backline players who can utterly destroy even the most powerful of forwards. His devastating carries create a huge vaccum, soaking up a many as three defenders at a time. He has to be marked heavily and this in itself is exploitable. With that offload, long pass and massive boot, he is the perfect inside centre. He is a strong persona that you can build your entire gameplan around. To insinuate that he is a liability is a disgrace beyond redemption. But then hey, Goosen - a player who has never landed a dominant tackle in three seasons at all levels of senior rugby, the worst defender in Springbok history who has already single-handedly cost the Boks DIRECTLY two All Black tests - is a must. That you back some of the most average players I have ever seen play says it all.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Jul 2014, 14:25
#4
10 Jul 2014, 14:25#4

Jake's side keeps losing as he is getting his selections wrong.

 

I don't like the way he is treating Swiel.......who had a good game on the weekend and now finds himself out of the match 23 and once again we have Frans at 10 who is not a 10 and even more concerning is Jordaan at 12.......Jake is losing the plot again

ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
10 Jul 2014, 14:43
#5
10 Jul 2014, 14:43#5
Swiel obviously isn't ticking all the boxes just yet. I think he is a good player, but he has a lot of work ahead of him. Ultimately, nobody has really done enough to own the 10 jersey. This is what's ultimately costing them. Not Jake's fault, just the cards that were dealt; he's making the best of it and that, right now, is Frans - And that's coming from someone who never wanted him at 10, not even when everyone knew he was the next Naas.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
10 Jul 2014, 14:56
#6
10 Jul 2014, 14:56#6
 Jake the Snake is a good coach, but his mouth is too big sometimes and his loyalty to his employers is suspect. Jake comes first...always. Although he is a far better coach and manager as Alistair,  I'm glad he's at the Sharks and not in CT. It looks like Gert might be better for WP ATM.  
ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
10 Jul 2014, 14:59
#7
10 Jul 2014, 14:59#7
Jake will always outperform any South African coach. Meyer is the closest, but Jake has more experience. The Stormers need a complete overhaul, and that requires an architect to put it all together; currently only Jake and Meyer have shown any capacity to do that.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Jul 2014, 15:06
#8
10 Jul 2014, 15:06#8
Sun Tzu
Problem is that Styn has the reputation of getting go-forward balls for thr Sharks  but in the whole of Super 15 thus far this year  he did it exactly once in the  Crusaders game. The rest of the games he was a mess.   All your praise singing sounds nice on paper - but on th field of play it really is never in evidence.   There is no way the countless possession losses and lack of line breaking ability will be countenanced by other coaches.     
Steyn was very good before his departure for France and never on that par since his return.   Reputation players not producing tangible results are problematic for any team.  Maybe it is the knee problem that really reduce Steyn to the slow and unproductive player he is at present.       
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
10 Jul 2014, 15:07
#9
10 Jul 2014, 15:07#9
 That might be so. Rassie tried it, but almost destroyed the team's identity. Gert learned a couple of things since he coached WP way back, and Jake is coaching the Sharks.I agree that WP needs a complete overhaul and I think Gert has already made some positive strides to achieve this, but there are a lot of work to be done still.
ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
10 Jul 2014, 15:13
#10
10 Jul 2014, 15:13#10
Gert may be no architect, but he isn't stupid either. I hope it works out for him, I don't like seeing the Stormers playing like a third-tier side. But part of that evolution, particularly in the try stakes means moving on from Jean. As a player who can spot an intercept, he is dangerous, but as a functional piece to a wider array of units? He is of very littlr value. He has been holding the Stormers and Bok back for too long.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Jul 2014, 15:15
#11
10 Jul 2014, 15:15#11

No what Jake should be doing is investing in Swiel at 10 and not chopping and changing week after week. Its hardly settling for the player. He is obviously a talented player and therefore he should be doing the obvious thing and showing some faith in the lad.

 

Bloody hell he was one of the better players on the weekend in a poor Sharks display and now we see the average Zielanga on the bench and Frans back at 10.......poor, poor move.

 

It should be plainly obvious to Jake that Frans does not really work at 10, that he is a far better 12 and that Jordaan is clearly not a 12.......its poor selections like these that reminds why I never rated the man back in his Bok days.

 

They are just piss poor selections, much like Alberts at lock at points in the season.

 

 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
10 Jul 2014, 15:18
#12
10 Jul 2014, 15:18#12
 De Allende seems to be coming on nicely and there was some other centres in the wings as well, so I think there is life after Jean, as there will be after Scalla. Even the Cheetahs were able to find someone after Juan.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Jul 2014, 15:44
#13
10 Jul 2014, 15:44#13
  I have been a big fan of Frans but I have veryserious doubts about him. He looks aboiut done right now. Biggest assets is that massive boot but the althlete of old looks to be gone.I have gone off Alberts. He work rate is very poor. If you want big number 7 there are mor worthy options like Burger 114 kg, Potgieter about the same, Du Toit and also Du Plessis at close to 120 kg. All work much harder than Alberts and have more skills. Personally I like Alberts better at lock.
I think Jake is trying to get Frans to put the pacy jordaan into space where if he cuts a line he is through to score. I also though Sweil showed some very classy touches and should at least beon the bench gaining experience. Zeilinga is a good flyhalf and nice alround package. 
Small is defintely a big step up from Alistair so hopefully we will do better next year and hopefuly palyers will be better managed and ther will be less crippling injuries. It would seem the Stormers could still have a good sqaud in 2015. We shall see.One wonders if in 2015, a WC year, whether some foreign based pla yers will return to SA so as better to catch Meyers eye.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Jul 2014, 15:49
#14
10 Jul 2014, 15:49#14
 Jean and Habana are still worthy of being chosen for the Boks. The young guns need to prove they are better. That I dont believe has happened. Who exactly are better?
I look fowrard to seeing how Jean goes after his refeshing break - once he has settled in again.
It appears that cained ou came back from Japan all fired up - if the kbbs are to be believed. 
In what shape will Bekker be. Not that its critical but the more top players we have in great form the better.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Jul 2014, 15:52
#15
10 Jul 2014, 15:52#15

 Serfontein is better than Jean as is Frans

 

 

Habana still has a case for being the best

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Jul 2014, 15:56
#16
10 Jul 2014, 15:56#16
 Hahahahahahha very funny snapster. Jean has consistently been out best 12. Nobody yet has been better. Nobody. 
Frans is way off the pace. Those knees must be shot. I have been watching him and really cant find cause for hope - very unfortunately as he looked destined to be an all time great.
We may see him in the RC and see then if he can lift his game. Perhaps he is coasting. Its clutching at straws stuff.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
10 Jul 2014, 16:01
#17
10 Jul 2014, 16:01#17
 Fransie does not want to play for the Boks Beeno.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Jul 2014, 16:12
#18
10 Jul 2014, 16:12#18

Beenkop - what utter bullshit.....I cant recall when last Jean did anything of note

 

Jan is far more gifted and is the future. Jean like all the other old farts in the Bok side is selling our side short  

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
10 Jul 2014, 16:21
#19
10 Jul 2014, 16:21#19
 Saffex, do you actually watch the rugby? Jan might be the future,  but Jean is still the present and will be our captain till the RWC if fit to play. Now, unlike your drivel, that's a fact you can take to the bank.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Jul 2014, 16:29
#20
10 Jul 2014, 16:29#20
Snapster you wrote off both Habana and Jean and was forced to eat humble pie.Jean was a 2013 nomination for SA player of the year. Where were Frans and Jan? Not on the list. I grant you Jean at 33 and 103 kg is getting on. BUT if merit is the principle then somebody has to play better to unseat him. It hasnt happened yet.
It's great to still have Jean around. Buys us time while Jan matures and gives us an excellent mentor.
See the bigger picture snapster! Understand the game. Dont be like ou windpomp!

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