Whiteley et al

So we have now seen Whiteley in action at test level. To me he has shown a lot of leadership and nous. He certainly lifted the team at Ellis Park and scored a fine try. In PE he did a lot of smart things and made plenty of tackles. He was active in the last 5 minute defensive stand.
But watching him in contact he certainly is no Vermeulen in physicality. Which is okay, but to me we need another loosie to take up the power stakes in that case. Frankly Stephanie would be my pick....none of our 7s are doing any better in that role. That would allow us to pick a more powerful lock giving us better balance.
So that leaves the open side flank as a question. Is Kriel that player? Maybe. But I wasn't that impressed on Saturday, he made several mistakes....including a bad missed tackle shooting out of the line in the last 5 minutes.
Nor was I at all impressed with Mostert who likewise missed tackles and was overpowered in contact. This is no test player.

 Whiteley is my man for the captaincy. He leads by example, speak with authority when he talks to his teammates (perhaps overdo it at times with the John Mitchell incident in mind as an example).Slightly a lightweight, but has shown he can stop a player like Kieran Read. Very quick onto the lose ball and is not inclined to lose the ball in a tackle.
Moz, you said you were not impressed with Jako Kriel on Saturday. Well, he had to assume the fetcher role and those players tends to disappear from the screen because they are all to often  buried in the rucks and mauls.
One thing is for sure. Faf made that final crucial tackle at the end and thus stop a certain try. Kriel became immediately part of the tackle when he got his hands onto the ball and thereby secured a penalty for the Boks. I'd say Jako is the man who saved the day for the Boks... watch that final tackle again and look specifically what Jako achieved in those milliseconds. Jako is a must for the Boks. 

  I see Whiteley is now out of Super Rugby.
Ouch - bad news.

I have massive respect for Whiteley and everything he stands for as a man, a rugby player and a leader on the field.
But at his best, he's not near to what Vermuelen was. It could be argued he is more effective right now than Vermuelen but its still a downgrade for the Boks in a very important position.
We desperately need Vermuelen and Etzebeth back at their physical best. 
Ideally, Whiteley could play at 7 but thats a quota spot because none of our POC are fetchers and that's a non negotiable against Aus/NZ/Arg.

 My view is that it's tough to shine when only one or two other forwards are pulling their weight. Whiteley misses few tackles and plays well as part of a quick pack. Currently I think he's caught between two worlds. Duane only deserves his spot by when he has been consistently good for his club. Same with any other player.

 I certainly think Kriel and Whiteley should be part of our RC squad, and there seems to be little reason Kriel shouldn't be given a start. And I take your point on his role in the Faf tackle aftermath....Blikkies.  But I'm going to be unclear until I see him against Oz or NZ.

 Waaaaaait a minute. Whiteley is 28 and is turning 29 in Sept. That means that he would be 32 come RWC 2019. That means that he will be on crutches and waaaaaay to old to even be in the squad, let alone being the captain. 

 Oh no.....another set of geriatrics by RWC 2019. Whiteley 31, Mapoe 30, Redlinghuis 29, Kriel 29.....Combrink 29. Shouldn't we .....er....be investing in younger players?

One has to look at all players - irrespective of age - based om two aspects namely PERFORMANCE and EXPERIENCE.   If performance is not a factor - we will be back to the bad squad preparation we had under Meyer.   I have no problem with a player like Vermeulen - but then he must perform, something he did not since his neck injury last year.  Matter of fact he was downright poor in the Irish tests he pl ayed in - and not much better for his club (Toulon) this year.  

 Fielding a bunch of lightweights in the back row merely for the sake of mobility is a clear indication of utter ignorance. 
One would expect that kind of stupidity from a person who thinks Strauss is to blame for all our woes.
We need to up our physicality ... and right now all we have is a undeserving quota on the blindside (who some claim to be a natural openside flank ... sic) ... I personally think he's best position is at left back ... left back in the change room that is ... as well a Skinstad type at 8 that gets around the park rather well but doesn't have the brute force of a Vunipola ... and finally a tired beaten old man in Louw at 6.
Vermeulen is a must. He must be looked after and managed properly.
Kriel is a must. Many claim he's no 6. From where I'm sitting he's an incredible rugby player that cannot be left out. He may not be the traditional openside "fetcher" so to speak but there is something very special about him and if left to settle will become an international sensation.
Now onto the blindside ... Sharkbok suggested earlier on that we consider PSDT at 7 ... and I agree. He ticks all the blocks ... and gives us another lineout option as well as allows us (as Mozart suggested) to bring another physical wrecking ball in at 5.
I would have loved to see Willemse taking up his rightful spot there ... but will however be quite happy with RG Snyman who lets face it should have received his call up papers earlier.  
That in my opinion would sort our back 5 out quite nicely.
I don't know if you guys noticed what an improvement we had at scrum time when both props were replaced. Redelinghuyse and Kitshoff demolished the Irish and should be in the starting 15. 
1. Kitshoff, 2. Strauss, 3. Redelinghuyse, 4. Etzebeth, 5. Snyman, 6. Kriel, 7. PSDT, 8 Vermeulen
The only big improvement I can think of with that pack is at hooker. Marx would be the obvious choice. Unfortunately this pack will never be a reality because they're all  ... white.

 The CC idiot stakes at work.  There is no real indication as to the contribution made by Strauss to the scrumming and the story about 7 is clear - we need mobility in the loosies with some ball skills as well.   That is why the Irish cleared us out in ball protection and recovery, of which there was none in evidence in the recent tests.  I have some reservations moving our best performing lock to the no 7  position.    To persist with Vermeulen if he is performing as badly as he did for Toulon this  year and in the first two tests against the Irish - is rank stupidity.  If he ups his game - yes by all means - but there has been no indication since his return from his neck injury last year of adequate performance on his part.      

"Now onto the blindside ... Sharkbok suggested earlier on that we consider PSDT at 7 ... and I agree. He ticks all the blocks ... and gives us another lineout option as well as allows us (as Mozart suggested) to bring another physical wrecking ball in at 5."
The last player we had who could really switch between the second and the back row was Danie Rossouw. What's more, wasn't PSDT a seven in the JRWC when he was "first noticed "?

I see Comrade's head is still firmly lodged ...
We lost the ball on the ground because we had no-one assigned to the task ... and if Flo was supposedly responsible for this, he did it poorly. He's no opensider. 
We also lost the collision because of the lightweights fielded. Kolisi just isn't physical enough to protect our ball ... and on top of that he makes no impact as a ball carrier whatsoever. 
It's pointless getting to the ball when you aren't able to secure it. A bigger, stronger, more physical player simply mauls right over the top of you and either strips you of it or has you pinged for holding on or being in an off side position. Either way the weedy lightweight loses.   
We need a physical presence like that of Alberts and Vermeulen. I believe PSDT would be well suited to the task on the blindside as it's a position he's familiar with. 
Comrade's idea of a quality test loosie is someone like Lappies. He's ineffective and hardly noticed at super rugby level. Can only imagine what he'd contribute to a test match.

 Correct, CC. I am bus y checking and trying to figure out where the idea, that PSDT is this magnificent lock, originated. I can remember that it was in the 2012 JRWC that he really "caught the eye" but he was playing at no 7 in that tournament. He was definitely at 7 in the final of that tournament.
EDIT:I checked. I found the teams for all of the 2012 JRWC games, bar the one against Italy. PSDT was at 5 in only the first game against Ireland which, coincidentally, we lost. In all of the other games, i.e. against England, Argentina and NZ, he played at 7 and he wasn't subbed once either.

We have tight forwards to burn. Only problem here is two outstanding hookers in marx and Akkers are left out for quota reasons.Akkers is a dan coles but on steroids - a far better player - much like Faf topping wee aaron smith.Beats played very well and i would ease Kitshoff in off the bench. 
The biggest issue is the composition of the loose trio which must align to the game plan which must be Lions orientated.
You would have to be a real twit to think kolis is the answer. I do wish saffex would get a grip. I mean even that dunce wee cc knows kolisi is no good! Saafex is being shown up badly on this matter!
As with Duane Vermuelen guys like Kriel have been over looked for too long. We won't have them at their best for much longer. Ditto Whiteley and Combrink.
The ability to spot and grow talent is sadly the preserve of the Lions coaching staff.Its all a disgrace! Our best coaches like Rassie, Venter, Mallet and Jake are nowhere to be seen. Somehow Akkerman and his team got a chance and saved their Union!

 Good post CC......it's not a kid's playground.

 The village idiot at work here and Mzart is prepared as always to be idiotic as well.  Du Toit was by some distance the best lock in the recent series and also for the Dtormers this year.   The real dullards busy with their normal prejudice.