Whitelock, best lock in the world.

 Before the furore this was Planet Rugby statement as his inclusion in team of week. Bet early to label him as such but is one of the best battle with Etzebeth could be epic.

 wee Whitelock? 

 Etzebeth is the best lock in the game

Don't start acting like Ozzies and build yourselves up before you let yourselves down :)

On "wee Whitelock", remember, it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. That's a Mark Twain quote, not sure what he knew about rugby but it sounds good anyway,

We will see come this weekend, can't wait myself.

Guys, reading these kinfs of posts, makes me think that us Souther Hemisphere okes are very biased. What say's that the best lock in the game is not currently playing in the Northern Hemisphere. We must break the guys game down into segments to see who is really the best lock because its easy for Whitelock and Etzebeth to look the best when you playing in the world's best 2 teams.

We would probably find that man for man, on ability alone, Alun Wyn Jones or Paul O' Connell for arguments sake are much better allround players and if they were playing in a winning team like the AB's they would also be viewed as the best in the world. Ireland and Wales just dont win as much as the AB's so you never consider them individually.

Lets just stick to the facts that we support the best two teams in the world. Much further analysis needs to be conducted before we get the best players in their positions. Not as easy as just shouting it out.

One thing is for sure is that Dan Carter is/was the best flyhalf in the world! Thats the only certainty we know.

i reckon whitelock is the best lock in the world, but my word dosent count for anything cos im All Blacks hard.

in 2013 whitelock has entered a zen like locking state of mind the likes of which i havent seen since viktor matfield.
his link up work and ability to get round the feild is at All Black level.
and contrary to popular belief, he gets his hands plenty dirty with all the tight stuff

i also dont think that lady elizabeth is the worlds best, cos he hasnt been part of the int game long enough to be considered for that.
he can be considered one of the best locks going around though.

horwill would have made the list a few years back, but OMG his career has matched the reds last few season perfectly, a champion player back in 2011, and now a mojoless waste of space.

boklogic has a point regarding some of the NH players though, paul oconnel would have once been there, but hes too old now and that age has shown its face time and time again, rewind back 5 years ago and it would be a different story.

i like the looks of geoff parling, but loke lady elizabeth he hasnt played enough games to be in consideration.

none of the other NH locks really standout, though alun wynn jones and richard gray are great players.

thats why its very easy for me to say that whitelock is the best lock in the world on both form and reputation.

Oh another my dick is bigger than your dick thread 

oh another comment about how someone dosent like a topic but feels the need to comment on it when all they had to do was ignore it.







face palm!!!

 It is subjective as a 2 locks could be the same but perform better or worse in different teams.

The Springboks like to have at least one enforcer lock in the mould of Eben or Bakkies,

while Australia or NewZealand may prefer a lock that has more mobility.

Whitelock is very mobile and has the skills of a loose forward but I have not seen him in an enforcer capacity- like Etzebeth in the first match against Argentina.

Etzebeth best run of the game was when- he first ran through attempted tackles and then carried half the opposition team on his back and allmost made it to the try line. 

 Etzebeth is the best!

Best lock in the world? Okay, I'm going to exclude Tomas Lavanini for now . . . but only because he hasn't been given the opportunities . . . yet!

I know most South Africans can't see beyond Eben Etzebeth when it comes to this debate but for all his great talent, Etzebeth does come with a lot of baggage. His insistence on trying to be the hard man of the team coupled with his short fuse make him something of a liability. It's a bit like Luis Suarez of Liverpool. Nobody can dispute he has great skills but is it worth picking a loose cannon who might score you goals but could just as easily bite an opposition player?

Richie Gray of Scotland is an athletic all-round lock who is probably the opposite of Etzebeth in that he might just be lacking in aggression. Alun-Wyn Jones of Wales has been a class act for a long time but he might be getting on a bit now and the same could be said of Patricio Albacete.

Hopefully Etzebeth will mature and become a great asset for the Springboks but for now, if I was taking into consideration factors like skill, temperament, physique and how much rugby the player has left in him, then I reckon I'd have to go with Sam Whitelock as the world's best lock.

 Rooi, I think you will find Etzebeth has already come a long way in terms of keeping things in check. When last did he lose it, in fact being bitten hardly got a reaction out of him. Eben has learnt to curb taking the law into his own hands already.

Richie was great a year ago but for some unknown reason since moving to Sale he has lost his mojo. He was a big disappointment this year.

Steph du Toit is the next kid to make a name for himself as a lock. The prospect of a Eztebeth and Steph du Toit combo is mouth watering.......and early signs indicate they will surpass the Bakkies/Matfield combo

Sam Whitelock

Height:  1.90 m (6 ft 3 in)

Weight: 114 kg (17 st 13 lb)

Eben Etzebeth

Height:   2.03 m (6 ft 8 in)

Weight:  117 kg (18 st 6 lb)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org

The different physical dimensions of these two players indicate that they must have different strengths and weaknesses and this is clearly the case. For example, Whitelock can't match Etzebeth in brute force & Etzebeth can't match Whitelock in speed and endurance and mobility over 80 minutes.

So, on the question of who is the best lock in the world? Based on overall ability I pick Whitelock.

However, I don't care as to me the important point is who contributes to their team the most and this is not just based on one player's talent but which one fits the needs of their team in terms of the style of play/game plan and in terms of how the can be complemented.  IMO this is again Whitelock.

 Those stats on Etzebeth are out of date, he weighed 123kg last year

 Saffex: you must be right but this just supports my argument.

Eben has to be more than 3kg's heavier than Whitelock surely. If their heights listed a true, surely he will be at least 10kg's up on Whitelock just judging by the sight of them. I reckon Etzebeth is around the 124-125kg mark.

Horses for courses. If you playing England or Argentina, you probably want Etzebeth. If you playing the technicality of Australia, you probably want Whitelock. Both good players that bring something different. Would be interesting to put the top 10 teams in the worlds coaches in a room and see who they would pick to play between Whitelock and Etzebeth. They would have to select on game plan and who can best execute that.

 Yep its 125kg and growing

http://www.unionsportsgroup.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=63:eben-etzebeth&catid=4

 Boklogic: now that would be the best way to decide it. But who do you think is the best lock in the game this weekeng Boks v ABs? That's a tough one. I still go for Whitelock.

Etzebeth has the same athleticism as Whitelock but brings twice the physicality. Give me Etzebeth anyday, no contest in my books.

Etzebeth has the same athleticism as Whitelock but brings twice the physicality. Give me Etzebeth anyday, no contest in my books.

Etzebeth has the same athleticism as Whitelock but brings twice the physicality. Give me Etzebeth anyday, no contest in my books.

He has physicality + all that Whitelock has & he  fits the game plan of his team better & has the right players around him for the game plan of his team? I will be watching both with special interest this weekend. I give you the physicality but the rest - we will see.

@just win,

Taken from http://www.foxsports.com.au :

Sam Whitelock:

• Birth Date: October 12, 1988
• Age: 24
• Height:: 202cm
• Weight: 116kg 

190 cm is a very small height for a lock. His brother George is 190 cm tall but Sam is 202 cm.

At this moment Sam is the best lock in the world IMO. As sasu said he reached a state of mind, and I would add a state of knowledge about what a lock's job is, that make him control all the aspects of the game and put him over the rest. Etzebeth lacks a bit of experience but that will end very soon.

 Clevermike: All Black site http://www.allblacks.com/index.cfm?layout=PlayerProfile&playerID=1800 list him as:

So a bit shorter and a lot lighter that your stats. Anyway, he is best when paried with a physical lock as they complement each other.

Time for bed for me mate.

Chat with you more tommow. Ulimately we just have to see how they play on the weekend, I have him as my lock and may also pick Etzebeth we will see. The two kiwi locks rack yp tacles, rund and lineout takes. As far as I know no extra points are given for crushing a man with brute force :)

 ABasquefan: nice to see your posts on here mate but time for me to hit the sack. It's near midnight my time. Talk to you latter

Yeah, Sam is definately over 200cm's tall. I am 194cm and Sam is taller than me. Im not sure where 190cm came from.

Just_win, in terms of who I think will be the best lock in the game this weekend it is very difficult to say. Going in to the game, you would have to say the more accomplished lock is Whitelock. He has been around longer and established himself. Whether or not he will be the best lock on the field remains to be seen.

If the Bok pack dominates (like we need to do if we are to win) then I reckon Etzebeth will be monumental. I have a slight feeling its actually going to be a better contest between Retallick and Etzebeth. Retallick is obviously the new "Brad Thorn" for NZL whilst Etzebeth is our new "Bakkies" and if history repeats itself, it will be an arm wrestle of the enforcers. NZL have spoken plenty about needing to match the Boks physicality. That is a kick up the backside for guys like Retallick to step up and have the game of their lives. NZL must up their physicality but not ignore what they are good at or neglect their flair whilst concentrating on being too physical. If they do that, it will play into the Boks hands. They are not going to beat the Boks at their own game. 

I am not brave enough to pick who will be the best but I am hoping it will be a player in the green and gold.

i agree with saffex regarding lady elizabeth keeping things in check, his reaction to senotare treating him like a cheeseburger is testament to that. had senotare taken a bite fo lady elizabeth last year, something tells me that he would have reacted alot more postal then the disciplined shove to the head, given that he tried to give sharpie a liverpool kiss cos sharpie called him a poo poo brain.

i dont agree with saffex regarding lady elizabeth mobility being the same as whitelock, whitelock is way more active round the feild and im willing to bet ur going to see a lot more of whitelock this weekend then u will lady elizabeth, just like in sowetto last year when lady elizabeth ran on to the field to sing niko sikileli and do nothing else for 50+ minutes before getting subbed off.

i do think that lady elizabeth has it over whitelock in the physical department, but its not at a level where it hasnt been seen before, paul oconnel had been a physical lump of pain for donkeys years and teams know what is required to stop him.
in saying that, whitelock is plenty physical, makes a mountain of tackles, links up way better like a 4th loosie and gets involved in the tight stuff plenty.

@mr win,
i thought there was something way off with those stats, cos keiran read is 6ft 3, but abscom has sam whitelock down as 202cm, not 190cm, :o)

Ha ha Sas, you love going back and living in the past. It was Etzebeth's first real season last year. He comes to Eden park, bigger, better, more experienced and now knows what to expect. Im sure Whitelock never set the world alight in his rookie season.

Anyway, I hope the AB's share your views on things. We love the complacency.

@boklogic,

every game players have played is in the past, but the test against the pumas in mendoza or the scotland match was this year and stealth was the best way to describe lady elizabeth in those matches.
but i dont blame u for n=wanting nothing to do with the past, im sure all Bok fans and lady elizabeth feels the same way.

whitelock like most All Blacks started his career on the bench, but eventually he became the incumbent.
if u want to see what whitelock can do, watch him school Boks tallest lock ever when the crusaders beat the stormers, or watch the little impact both bekker and lady elizabeth had against whitelock.

dont get me wrong, i still think ezebeth is world class, but i would have whitelock anyday, hes a proven match winner.

and like i siad many times, All Blacks do things the All Blacks way filled with logic, they would never let the fans dictate the way they do things, that sounds more safferish to me lolz, :oP

 The title of this thread is totally misleading, Whitelock is nowhere close to being the best lock in the world. He has a long way to go to be rated that high at this stage. Luke Romano is the best lock in NZ in my opinion, his work rate is more prominent with a varied set of abilities, it would be more fair to compare Romano to Etzebeth.  It is unfortunate for the ABs that Romano is injured but even with his absence they manage to do well but it would benefit the team to have him back, they'll need him against the boks. 

 Is this Lucid fool serious?? Romano?? Only thing mislead is you buddy.. Retallick and Whitelock would start. Romano started in Sydney simply to give Retallick a rest as he had a longer Super rugby series. Romano doesn't come into the fray.

I suggest you start watching rugby..

 @Boklogic
I stated on another thread that i no longer want you to respond to my post because your rugby knowledge is low standard and you don't have good view points. I don't want to see it. Romano is certainly a first choice lock for the ABs but he got injured, Retallick is just a injury replacement. The ABs coach himself mentioned Romano is a big loss, if both players were fit Romano would start. I don't know where you get your info from but you have been misinformed mate. Get Real!

@Lucid

You dont post often, so you would think you would have some great points to make when you do but unfortunately, you just confirm why you should not post at all. Dont insult me by making mention of my "low" standard of rugby knowledge in comparison to yourself. You are one of the thickest pricks on here.

Retallick is always going to be a starter for AB's. Romano is definately considered there bench lock or rotation lock but any big game you get that Retallick and Whitelock are fit, they will play. Of course the AB coach mentioned Romano being a big loss. He obviously features in their match 23 so any disruption at that level is a loss as a new guy has to come in. Who is their back up. Jeremy Thrush...Exactly..He is a bit of a makeshift lock at international level rather than a specialist.

Same way Heyneke will say Spies is a massive loss but he is not going to play over Duane. Lambie would be a big loss but he doesn't play over Morne'... They are just guys who can slot in as they have been with the team for a long time and know the systems in place therefore losing anyone in that space is a loss when a newbie comes in..You starting to get it now or you want a picture??

C'mon guys no need to go psycho just because we see things differently.

Luatua is obviously the best lock in the world now but everything depends on what criteria we base our assessment.

For example if a lock can play dual roles i.e an awesome game as a loose forward as well then i say he has a distinct advantage over other locks.

I'm hoping Luatua will get a chance to prove this on Saturday.

But as with any assessment you need multiple indicators for it to have any validity so unless he makes regular appearances as a lock then it remains highly subjective as is the case with assessments in general. 

Not exactly Steinlager. I cant see why you would want to play the best lock in the world at loose forward. 2 different roles. The best lock in the world would have to be a specialist.

Im sure Richie could play lock just fine but would he be as effective as a lock as he is at openside? The roles are completely different and if a good flank is the worlds best lock, then he is no longer a flank!

Look at Fardy for example. He plays ok on the flank but he is a lock. He will do a job at flank but never set the world alight at international level. He is a much better lock. You very rarely ever see a great utility forward.

You probably not going to get what I am saying and try tear this apart but try see what I am saying.