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Whitely a future Bok captain?

Started by Beeno123 REPLIES236 VIEWS· 27 Oct 2014, 07:41
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Oct 2014, 07:41
#1
27 Oct 2014, 07:41#1

Ex Sport 24 - Rob Houwing


Cape Town – If a succession plan is yet to be formulated for the Springbok captaincy, then expect it to at least not be too far away.

In fractionally over a year’s time, the 2015 World Cup will be a thing of the past and South Africa will, in all likelihood, have bade farewell to an era in which Jean de Villiers, particularly, and Victor Matfield have been the central leadership figures. (Matfiled must go NOW!!!!!!!)

De Villiers will 34 by the time that event ends and Matfield an even more long-in-the-tooth 38, so their retirement - certainly from international rugby - is strongly likely then. (No matfiled must go NOW!!!!)

As long as those two are injury-free and steering things smoothly (De Villiers overall and Matfield in the pack) there should be little need for alternative Bok leadership considerations until RWC 2015 has run its course.(Schalk and Vermuelen and Bissie can all lead the pack - N0 need foir matfiled)

But there will be the inevitable changing of the guard - both in captaincy and certain personnel - immediately after it and the country will be seeking a fresh on-field figurehead.

Who it may be is not a question with especially obvious answers yet, but it is increasingly my own belief that Golden Lions skipper Warren Whiteley will be among those under consideration.

It may not be much immediate consolation to Lions fans, following the agonisingly close defeat to Western Province in Saturday’s high-quality Currie Cup final at Newlands, but if anything the leadership stocks of their No 8 only rose in a national context after it.

The Lions certainly did not come second because of any failings on the part of their captain: indeed, he was typically full-blooded in personal performance terms and suitably animated in cajoling a response from his dapper men – which undoubtedly came – after the hosts had taken an early stranglehold on the scoreboard.

In a match that genuinely could have gone either way and with the Lions pressing right to the death, the final will be remembered, among other good reasons, for the composure and accuracy off the kicking tee of WP’s Demetri Catrakilis and the untimely off-day in that respect by the Lions’ normally trusty Marnitz Boshoff which was to prove pivotal. (Agreed if anything the Lions had the better of the game)

You don’t suddenly hand out Springbok captaincies for good grace in defeat, of course.

But just for the record, Whiteley showed that in admirable bag-loads after a distinguished Newlands advertisement for rugby, played in impeccable spirit.


As Wikus van Heerden, a former Bok loose forward favourite and member of the last victorious Lions Currie Cup side in 2011, said in the SuperSport studio after Saturday’s nail-biter, the losing captain’s televised post-game interview is one of the least enviable tasks in the game.

Yet Whiteley managed to temporarily bury his huge disappointment to deliver a refreshingly articulate, cliché-free address, describing the great pleasure of just sampling a showpiece in one of the world’s most time-honoured competitions while fulsomely crediting the winning side.(Dont agree Whitely was far too politically correct in praising WP. His side should have won - lets tell it like it was)

He has been Captain Courageous for much of a fine campaign by the Lions, the glue binding together a largely unsung but gutsy and vibrant bunch of players.

There are many rivers to cross before next year’s World Cup, and just for one thing, Whiteley is merely one, at this point, of the usual vast array of loose forwards in this country vying for just three berths in the Bok XV.

He hasn’t even started a Test yet, having made two appearances as a substitute during the Castle Rugby Championship a few weeks ago.

But the Durban-born, Glenwood High product is also is a player on the up, and having turned 27 only last month, is one who should have plenty of gas in the tank for another four-year cycle after the next World Cup. (Bit old for the job post RWC? He would be 29 in 2016))

A few weeks before the latest Currie Cup final, Whiteley was already getting significantly good reviews from people of influence.

Matfield described him as a “great leader and energetic player” who had lots of pace and “puts himself in good positions as a ball carrier”.

Bok coach Heyneke Meyer has also lauded him as a “natural No 8”.

And on that score, remember that even if the mighty Duane Vermeulen is the deserved incumbent of that position in the Test side, he also offers solid possibilities down the line as a rugged blindside flanker.

Don’t get me wrong, there will other, probably attractive Bok captaincy candidates for the post-2015 period and Whiteley nailing down a regular spot is no fait accompli.

But even at this long-range point, I wouldn’t be too hasty, if I were you, to bet against Warren Roger Whiteley leading out his country from 2016 onward, and thus becoming the third Transvaal/Golden Lions national captain of the post-isolation after a certain Francois Pienaar, and a few years later Andre Vos.

Whiteley is not a follower, and he has the sort of ambassadorial skills and respect from those around him that have marked the De Villiers tenure as national leader.

Mark my words, there is something about him.


Rob let Warren first nail down a place in the team . Thereafter who will be  playing for the Boks. Eg Strauss is one year older at 28 as is Vermuelen. Pollard also looks to have leadership potential. We shall see.

BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Oct 2014, 07:46
#2
27 Oct 2014, 07:46#2
Warren Whitely has to surpass Vermeulen as the incumbent number 8 and be an automatic starter before you can even consider making him the captain.  
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
27 Oct 2014, 08:07
#3
27 Oct 2014, 08:07#3

Forget about Whiteley. Politics will dictate that Carr will be Vermeulen's successor.

 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Oct 2014, 08:20
#4
27 Oct 2014, 08:20#4
 Stuff politics. Take the anc biggots to the constitutional court for interfering.
Vermulen could move to 7 as indicated BB.
There is of course tremedous competition re loose forwards. Personally I think Whitely has done well as a captsain and should today be sitting with the Currie Cup. I saw an article by Alistair Coetzee saying the win had nothing to do with luck. However when a side loses by a point but misses 15 points via missed goal kicks the winner must concede theyarer lucky.Now of course Allistair is not alone in being deluded. Remember Dunedin where the Boks once again thoroughly outplayed the abs and lost when both Steyns between them missed was it 9 penalty kicks. The kbbs were in as much denial about that win for them as is Allistair re the Currie Cup win . Allistair is thus, one must conclude, as deluded as the kbbs. Man this is concerning!  
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Oct 2014, 08:30
#5
27 Oct 2014, 08:30#5
Beeno, why would you move arguably the best 8 in the world currently to another position, Vermeulen has been the best 8 in SA since, hell I can't remember.  
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
27 Oct 2014, 08:30
#6
27 Oct 2014, 08:30#6
 
I too am shattered that we lost the match because of poor goal kicking.

I can accept one or two missed attempts but to come away losers because of 5 missed opportunities is very disappointing.

Whitely is an excellent cpt but to be fair he would need to be chalked up in the starting 15 to even be considered. I can't see that happening any day soon.



 
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
27 Oct 2014, 08:47
#7
27 Oct 2014, 08:47#7
Beeno, one successful penalty kick changes the entire game. Instead of having a 22 dropout you have a restart from halfway. New game altogether, new string of events where the other missed opportunities may not even have come to pass.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
27 Oct 2014, 08:52
#8
27 Oct 2014, 08:52#8
 Ya have to make the team consistently to be named captain.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Oct 2014, 09:01
#9
27 Oct 2014, 09:01#9
 Pakie please. The dominant Lions scrum would have earned further scrum penalties in our half so dont try that one!
BB one has to try and get one's best players in the side. All that is being said is that Whitely could be accomodated without losing Vermuelen.
We are playing amore expansive game these days and a loosie who can play out wide might be useful.Still as I have indicated Coeatzee, Vermulen and Schalk are probably our best for now
Carr, Labuschagne, Whitely and Kriel are the players who can play a more roving role if needed.


BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Oct 2014, 09:03
#10
27 Oct 2014, 09:03#10
Beeno, we have a host of very good loose forwards, I am quite a way off calling Wh itely so good that I will accommodate him by sacrificing other players in their chosen position. 
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
27 Oct 2014, 09:10
#11
27 Oct 2014, 09:10#11
I'm not trying anything Beeno, just stating the fact that you can't say 15 points went missing because there's no telling how much different the game would have been had even one of those kicks gone over. I know it's of no consequence because what's done is done, but contingency weaves a complex web which I find interesting to play with. But do carry on.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Oct 2014, 09:12
#12
27 Oct 2014, 09:12#12

Pakie, when you lose by 3 and your opponent kicked all his kicks whilst you missed 15 points, you do have a case of suggesting you should have won.


The fact that the Lions didn't is what really happened and you have to live with that, but let's be honest, you don't expect a kicker of Boshoff's ilk, to miss that many kicks.  

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
27 Oct 2014, 09:20
#13
27 Oct 2014, 09:20#13
I don't disagree with you at all Biltong.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Oct 2014, 09:35
#14
27 Oct 2014, 09:35#14
 Pakie there is no reason to think further penalties would not have accrued in kickable positions to the dominant Lions scrum.
BB I am glad you take a logical approach. You have no idea how much trouble I had convincing the kbbs and cerundunce  windpomp of this!!! Even today they are still in denial about the Dunedin test!  I fear ou cerunce windpomp  is a closet ab supporter!! He even said Brycy Lawrence was not to balme for our RWC exit!!! 



CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
27 Oct 2014, 09:36
#15
27 Oct 2014, 09:36#15
 
Even though PakiePoef has a point it still shows his refusal to give the Lions an inch.

Clearly he's a Province man.

In the end it's all about opportunities missed and we missed 5 shots at posts. One of them would have been good enough to take us through to extra time ... two would have given us the title.

It's a pity we couldn't calm our nerves a little earlier.

How PakiePoef can strut his stuff insinuating Province were the better team is absurd. 

In the end all that counts is the scoreboard and that I'm afraid reads them as champs.

 




PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
27 Oct 2014, 09:46
#16
27 Oct 2014, 09:46#16
I missed the game CC, so I can't comment on who was the better team and I'm not insinuating anything. I actually backed the Lions to win it in the pre-game predictions, in case you missed that. I was just pointing out contingency matters, which I would have done had things been the other way round as well. I have nothing but respect for the Lions as a team, they play a great brand of rugby and it wouldn't have bothered me if they won it because it would have been a deserved reward for their efforts this year.

But glad you got a chance to use your pet name for me again, I hope it was as good for you as it was for me.
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
27 Oct 2014, 10:08
#17
27 Oct 2014, 10:08#17
I see now the Lions only arrived at Newlands for the first time on Saturday morning. Not enough time to get used to the conditions for the goal kickers? Could be counted as a big error by their management.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Oct 2014, 10:19
#18
27 Oct 2014, 10:19#18
After two or at the most three missed kicks by Boshoff Whiteley had two options, namely -
*   chnged the kicker; or*   kick to the corner.
Whiteley did neither and ultimately it was a disaster for his team.  Nice bloke - but really inexoerienced as a captain.   
A captain needs to be first choice for selection of the team.   At this stage he is probably third or fourth ch oice for the no 8 position and  the same applies to no 7.       
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Oct 2014, 10:21
#19
27 Oct 2014, 10:21#19

Good points cleverboy


Why didn't I think of that?  

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
27 Oct 2014, 10:31
#20
27 Oct 2014, 10:31#20
 
Combrinck has had a good season at posts and should have been trusted with the task.

Mike ... who do you regard as better prospects for the Bok 8 jersey ... apart from Vermeulen?


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Oct 2014, 19:15
#21
27 Oct 2014, 19:15#21

Whitely is a nice player but not good enough to be a certainty in the Bok side....not even close..........Vermeulen is only a few years older and twice the player.

 

They have to find a Bok certainty as captain..........there are no obvious choices.  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Oct 2014, 20:08
#22
27 Oct 2014, 20:08#22
 CC 
I think that it should be 1 - Arno Both or 2 - Lappies Labuschagne.  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Oct 2014, 20:14
#23
27 Oct 2014, 20:14#23
 Lets look at the Springbok certainties that will last past the WC - iethe present under 30 years of age players:-
Willie le Roux Handre PollardDuane VermeulenEben EtzebethAdriaan Staruss
The above been the case - i would say he captain should be Vermeulen.   

 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Oct 2014, 21:03
#24
27 Oct 2014, 21:03#24
 Let's hope Arno Botha comes back strong.  He is an option as captain as CJ Stander would have been had our fool of a coach selected him.
Labs is a good player but not a Bok starter so he is not an option
— END OF THREAD —

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